[mkpiyengar]

Originally Posted by PranavDesai

How can Maruti advertise while relying on information given by someone else? What is ARAI for? FE should not (cannot) be the only criteria for selecting a car. I believe Maruti has crossed limits with its "kitna deti hai" ads, what with tank, yacht, and airplane. I strongly feel these ads rather than highlighting the cars are derogatory for us Indians. Discussion/comments/suggestions is welcome on this issue.

I fully agree with you on this. Yes, fuel efficiency is very important criteria in choosing the vehicle, but I felt the advt. went over the top with the idea.

My take is people choose Maruti becoz:
1. Hassle free experience in pre-sales, delivery (In Most cases).
2. Availability or service center at most places.
3. Easy to drive.
4. Easy availiblity of spares.
5. Overall, hassle free.

Mileage is a very debatable topic. A Honda City driven reasonably would give 12-13kmpl comparable to a Wagon-R in city (Based on personal experience). So theoretically Wagon-R should be giving more FE since it is 1 L engine. However, practically things are different.

To conclude, Claiming people buy Maruti for Mileage is a tall claim in my opinion. There are other options which are equally good if not better !!

Cheers,
MKP

[Dieseldunk]

Originally Posted by sgiitk

The ARAI figures are a piece of fiction. Actuals are at least 10-15% less.

Sir I agree to the same.As mentioned rightly ARAI test conditions are like our superheroes they exist in the virtual world.

Will the consumer forum ask people to pay more if the FE of the car is higher than quoted?.

People tend to forget that all these are caveat emptor bound laws (Let the buyer beware) and not contract referendum. Consumer forum is not the technical expert to decide .

Cheers
Prasad

[sourabhzen]

Originally Posted by PranavDesai

I strongly feel these ads rather than highlighting the cars are derogatory for us Indians.

Why is it derogatory? We indirectly contribute to the environment by selecting a car based on fuel efficiency rather than the 'worshiped' Americans who do not care about their mileage figures.

[drbones]

Originally Posted by abybabykcc

Ford does give 32 kmpl... the first 12 km on level road and the last 20 km driving downhill with the car in neutral.

Its completely true that Ford fiesta gives 32km per 2 lits.

Kindly dont blame ford for it. Check at the bottom of the AD with a star, saying
conditions apply.

[mac187]

Originally Posted by PranavDesai

FE should not (cannot) be the only criteria for selecting a car.

Most people buy cars based on the FE figures advertised. I know this for a fact because two VP's in my previous company bought Ford Fiesta together when it was launched beliveing the advertised FE figures. One of the VP's alma mater is IIM-A!

[shadows123]

Originally Posted by sourabhzen

Why is it derogatory? We indirectly contribute to the environment by selecting a car based on fuel efficiency rather than the 'worshiped' Americans who do not care about their mileage figures.

If you are picking a Diesel car in India , its not really contributing to any environment. They are some of the most polluting cars. and better mileage doesnt mean better environment!! and taking cars without the safety features(which seems to be the norm amongst majority who pick Swift VDI/VXI) isnt helping either!

What the other person means to say is the ad reflects a bit bad on everyone because it makes it sound as if as long as it gives mileage, all we need is 4 seats, an engine and a body cover.

[sgiitk]

Originally Posted by shadows123

If you are picking a Diesel car in India , its not really contributing to any environment. They are some of the most polluting cars. and better mileage doesnt mean better environment!! and taking cars without the safety features(which seems to be the norm amongst majority who pick Swift VDI/VXI) isnt helping either!

can you justify this statement. Do not get taken in my the CSE propaganda. The pollution from Diesels is Different than that from Petrols. As long as both conform to BS4 (or rather Euro IV) I will not worry.

I think what is needed is a crackdown on the unofficial additives in Diesel (very widespread) and also full Euro-IV compliance about fuel quality. The real culprits are the oil PSUs and the Govt for the relaxation.

In the US there are no separate pollution norms for Diesels so I believe they are meeting the same norms as Petrol engines.

[shadows123]

Originally Posted by sgiitk

can you justify this statement. Do not get taken in my the CSE propaganda. The pollution from Diesels is Different than that from Petrols. As long as both conform to BS4 (or rather Euro IV) I will not worry.

I think what is needed is a crackdown on the unofficial additives in Diesel (very widespread) and also full Euro-IV compliance about fuel quality. The real culprits are the oil PSUs and the Govt for the relaxation.

In the US there are no separate pollution norms for Diesels so I believe they are meeting the same norms as Petrol engines.

well i meant the quality of diesel being sold in India vis-a-vis the ones sold in Euro and US whereas petrol is relatively better in this regard. How many people think of using better Diesel(like from say Shell) ?

and i was merely reffering to his statement which states that Indians save the environment by buying better mileage cars compared to Americans. Do educate me? Which environment? and do you think it is justified to buy cars which dont have ABS or other safety standards(read Swift VDI/VXI) in exchange for better mileage? I believe that is more harmful for the environment than the better mileage aspect.

The 2 things (which i can think of) better mileage serves is a> Reduces fuel import cost b> Reduces Govt's subsidy on Diesel cars!!

and finally, whats a CSE btw?? lol

[sourabhzen]

Originally Posted by shadows123

If you are picking a Diesel car in India , its not really contributing to any environment. They are some of the most polluting cars. and better mileage doesnt mean better environment!! and taking cars without the safety features(which seems to be the norm amongst majority who pick Swift VDI/VXI) isnt helping either!

What the other person means to say is the ad reflects a bit bad on everyone because it makes it sound as if as long as it gives mileage, all we need is 4 seats, an engine and a body cover.

Please don't get confused between fuel efficiency and safety.

And yes, most of us (Indians) cant afford more than " 4 seats, an engine and a body cover". My first car was a second hand Maruti 800 which was the best I could afford at that time. And yes it was much more safer than the bike I used for my daily commute.

To me, better mileage means better environment as a Euro III compliant car transporting 4 adults from point A to B in a litre of petrol has lesser carbon footprint than another Euro III car doing the same job in, say, 1.25 litres of petrol.

[Daewood]

Originally Posted by rambo1o1

ARAI publishes high figures for various cars which cannot be met due to various reasons.So now can i sue ARAI??

No. You can't, because it clearly says "under standard test conditions"

Originally Posted by mac187

I know this for a fact beacuse two VP's in my previous company bought Ford Fiesta togeather when it was launched beliveing the advertised FE figures. One of the VP's alma mater is IIM-A!

Even i've met a couple of well educated folks who believed the FE claims and another one who believed the "made exclusively for India" ads of another manufacturer. But that could be because of their lack of interest in cars and not because they are dumb.

[thoma]

Originally Posted by shadows123

and i was merely reffering to his statement which states that Indians save the environment by buying better mileage cars compared to Americans. Do educate me? Which environment?

...

and do you think it is justified to buy cars which dont have ABS or other safety standards(read Swift VDI/VXI) in exchange for better mileage?

I won't comment on the second part - about safety, as it is a personal choice, since choices are given by the manufacturers in terms of variants of the same car.

Allow me to put across my view about the first part. Indians might not be purposefully saving the environment by going for fuel efficient cars, and vice-versa about Americans. It was the abundance of wealth (might not be true in the current scenario of recessions) or the thought of abundance (I guess) that made the Americans not to care about the judicious use of fuel. The same holds true for us. As the average Indian car buyer were not backed by abundance of wealth, we cared much for fuel costs and in turn fuel efficiency. By fuel efficiency, I mean the amount of fuel burned to travel the same distance. Lower consumption of fuel indeed translates to lower consumption of natural resources. Coming to the other part - emissions, I am not particularly sure if an engine burning 1L of Diesel is as environmentally harmful as an engine burning 1.25L of Petrol for the same work. But common sense says that an engine burning 1.05L of any fuel is less harmful than an engine burning 1.25L of the same fuel for the same work.

[sgiitk]

Originally Posted by Daewood

Even i've met a couple of well educated folks who believed the FE claims .....

If one is comparing vehicles, then using the ARAI figures is still not a bad idea. One can take it that the actual figures will be about 15-20% lower across the board.

[sourabhzen]

Originally Posted by sgiitk

If one is comparing vehicles, then using the ARAI figures is still not a bad idea. One can take it that the actual figures will be about 15-20% lower across the board.

+1 to that sir!

Moreover, driving habits like sudden braking and accelerating, below average vehicle maintenance, traffic conditions and various other factors can reduce it but lack of them will seldom exceed the ARAI figures.

At least all vehicles are tested with same standards.

[Siddy]

Simply superb!
Loved reading the article in Hindu too, Auto major's can no longer make fools out of the common man by advertising fake stuff about their products.

Consumer Disputes Redressal Forum rocks! Hope other manufacturers take a lesson from this.

[shadows123]

Originally Posted by thoma

I won't comment on the second part - about safety, as it is a personal choice, since choices are given by the manufacturers in terms of variants of the same car.

Allow me to put across my view about the first part. Indians might not be purposefully saving the environment by going for fuel efficient cars, and vice-versa about Americans. It was the abundance of wealth (might not be true in the current scenario of recessions) or the thought of abundance (I guess) that made the Americans not to care about the judicious use of fuel. The same holds true for us. As the average Indian car buyer were not backed by abundance of wealth, we cared much for fuel costs and in turn fuel efficiency. By fuel efficiency, I mean the amount of fuel burned to travel the same distance. Lower consumption of fuel indeed translates to lower consumption of natural resources. Coming to the other part - emissions, I am not particularly sure if an engine burning 1L of Diesel is as environmentally harmful as an engine burning 1.25L of Petrol for the same work. But common sense says that an engine burning 1.05L of any fuel is less harmful than an engine burning 1.25L of the same fuel for the same work.

I agree with what you said that we are more judicious about fuel due to circumstances. But my point which i wanted to say was(as i had put in the first part of my last reply) that if we, the people of india are more environmentally conscious than Americans(as was said in the original post by so and so), then we shouldn't really be buying any diesel cars because the quality of diesel sold in India wrt to Europe and America is very poor where as petrol is much better in this regard. I guess i could've said what you said and that would've been that, that we are environmentally conscious by accident