[saket77]

Originally Posted by ritz3645

A VW Nano or FIAT Nano is more promising than a TATA Nano.

With an epic sales failure, I doubt that engineering obsessed companies like VW & Fiat will actually want the Nano. Nano will even lose the price competitiveness if it comes under the domain of such manufacturers. Just my 2 cents!

[S2!!!]

Originally Posted by saket77

How much does the Alto 800 & Nano prices come out to be? If I am not wrong, the Alto 800 is around 2.4-2.5 lacs, which is very close and slightly higher than the Nano.

Just to clarify the pricing, the Nano LX 2012 Special Edition with a music system, 4 power windows, central locking, alloy wheels, twin glove boxes, fancy seat covers and a left ORVM costs Rs. 2.47 Lakhs on road Mumbai in comparison to an alto 800 VXi that costs Rs. 3.81 Lakhs on road Mumbai. Even the standard Alto800 is 2.99 without power steering or even an ac!!! Is the Alto800 worth the extra moolah is very subjective, but does the Nano make it seem over-priced?? Totally!!!

(prices are sourced from carwale as of today)

[fz_rider]

Well everyone here knows why Nono isn't working ! It has to be the pre-launch hype of 'the worlds cheapest car' . Plus, Tata's not so intelligent marketing strategy.

[shankar.balan]

It is a great feat no doubt, the Tata Nano.

But no one wants or likes to buy something that flaunts being 'cheap' as a virtue.
Further, no one likes to freely admit that they have bought cheap'.
It compromises self respect and does not massage the ego whereas, getting 'more for less' does not.

Its a question of 'ego' and 'creating an impression' and 'keeping up appearances'. Why do you think there is such a huge 'aspirational' market for all things 'fake', especially the big name brands? I know lots of people who would prefer flaunting a fake name-brand Watch or Sunglasses or Bag, bought cheaply in China, rather than spend good money and buy a first class, quality Indian brand which they can easily afford within their means.

The Tata Nano strategy, positioning, PR and communication were all totally erroneously focussed on the inherent 'cheapness' while they should have focussed on value engineering as the primary leader cue and should have consistently highlighted the value the consumer was getting, along with the truly super engineering feats....

It will sell in large numbers if the government passes a regulation pulling all these horrid autos and other beastly modes of transport off the roads and offers subsidized Nanos for public transport. The same goes for the Reva or Mahindra E20. If this comes true then I shudder to think of the ensuing chaos on the roads!
I dont think Bajaj will ever stop lobbying for those beastly autos and their halfwitted 4 wheeler auto type things though!

[dreadknight5]

Originally Posted by fz_rider

Well everyone here knows why Nono isn't working ! It has to be the pre-launch hype of 'the worlds cheapest car' . Plus, Tata's not so intelligent marketing strategy.

I completely agree with your sentiments here. In India, car is generally a social status symbol. Tata goofed up big time understanding the Indian sentiment . In my opinion, they shouldn't have advertised NANO as world's cheapest car and cut corners to get the price down to INR 100,000 . They could have designed in the INR 150,000 region and presented it as a viable alternative to Alto/800.

[saket77]

Originally Posted by S2!!!

Just to clarify the pricing, the Nano LX 2012 Special Edition with a music system, 4 power windows, central locking, alloy wheels, twin glove boxes, fancy seat covers and a left ORVM costs Rs. 2.47 Lakhs on road Mumbai in comparison to an alto 800 VXi that costs Rs. 3.81 Lakhs on road Mumbai. Even the standard Alto800 is 2.99 without power steering or even an ac!!! Is the Alto800 worth the extra moolah is very subjective, but does the Nano make it seem over-priced?? Totally!!!

(prices are sourced from carwale as of today)

I checked with Maruti Suzuki website as it will be the most reliable information, the Alto 800 VXi costs Rs. 3.39 Lacs (metallic) Ex-showroom in Mumbai. I don't thing that insurance & registration should cost 50k. Hence, I am not convinced with the price of carwale. I could not check the price at carwale since it was asking for too many personal information. According to Tata website, Nano costs 2.31 lacs . I could not find any special edition on the website.

Hence:

Alto 800 VXi: 3.39 lacs
Nano Lx: 2.31 lacs
Both ex-showroom.

But before we go on to discuss the VFM factor, we must also look at the features too.

In fact, what I did not know is that Alto 800 is also offered with airbags at 3.58 lac ex-showroom. Hence with only additional 19K, one can take this version. Just an information; nothing to compare with.

Regards,
Saket

[Marauder]

Originally Posted by dreadknight5

Tata goofed up big time understanding the Indian sentiment . In my opinion, they shouldn't have advertised NANO as world's cheapest car and cut corners to get the price down to INR 100,000

IIRC,Tata never advertised Nano as the world's cheapest car,it was all media hype.Also,I think initially Ratan Tata did not fix the price of the Nano at 1lakh but he later took it on as a challenge when media hyped that Tata would build a 1lakh rupee car.
Secondly,if you look at the car it does not seem that they have cut corners while building the Nano.

As for the Nano being a dud part,as others have pointed out it was all to do with the image it created with the public.Apart from the cheap price tag,it was also the initial hoopla surrounding the Nano criticizing its unreliability i.e. people hyping the fire stories etc.Also,other negative stories like the agitation in West Bengal regarding it's manufacturing plant,it all adds up.

Another thing which the public did not like was that it was not really a conventional car that the people were used to,stuff like the engine at the rear,non openable hatch etc.All of these were great engineering ideas but the public did not like that it was different from other cars they drove.

That is the reason that you see Tata now offering these new customized kits for the Nano.They are now positioning it as a stylish second car or a car for the young buyer looking for a city runabout.
I just hope it repeats what the Mini and the 500 did as it would be a shame that such a good car failed so badly.

[GrammarNazi]

You never know, it may just start selling. Hike petrol by 7-8Rs, and image be damned, even the most conscious people will flock for the cheapest & most economical well engineered spacious city car.

AFAIK, Its much more crashworthy than the old M800 (dunno how it fares against the new A800, but the front has been exceedingly well engineered & tested for crash safety, so I'm assuming its definitely better, moreso given the engine is behind).

It's a RWD, & offers better traction. It really doesn't need PS (drive & see, because this MAY be subjective).

After the recent feat where some 3 people travelled >10,000kms in 10 days, and someone named Mathew Chako even being a senior citizen drove cross country >8000kms, it can be safely said that the car can very well be used comfortably on highways too.

Cumulatively, as more and more Nano's are sold/seen on the road, people will learn 1st hand experiences of people who own it. Personally, owning it has been an absolute joy JUST for how nimble it is in Bangalore city traffic. The independent suspension is really useful for our potholed city roads. Also, atleast I'm glad when I see the service bill. I've barely spent anything on maintenance in the past 3 years (max ~1000Rs).

We're all apprehensive about fuel costs. As much as a car may be a status symbol, isn't it worse if people don't see you using it to the fullest? Nano's mileage definitely takes the cake in that aspect.

[click]

When the media hype and marketing jumbo about Nano comes to my mind i think of two phrases i heard the most describing the little car:
1. worlds cheapest Car
2. Peoples car.

I agree with above statements from few that when you advertise the product as the cheapest, you will seldom find takers who would buy on perception but the buyers then will be attracted only due to purse strings.

with the second moniker, more media hype than company driven, about the this age peoples car was unfair to Nano. Unlike the beetle, mini, ford ... which became their age's people car, not only because they were cheaper but also because they offered new technological advancements which made them a lot more reliable and low maintenance products then their expensive peers.

I do not believe nano falls into this bracket. Apart from making things cheaper, it does not offer any revolutionary breakthrough.

I think for it to really offer better value and capture the imagination of people, Nano should offer breakthrough tech in form of hybrid/electric/solar powered engine. It does not necessarily have to be low cost to offer value.

By jumping the gun on the market (mahindra is trying with reva) and getting the government to support the eco industry, nano truly has the potential to become a peoples car.

[VW2010]

Just reduce the price by 50K or 75K and the car will sell like cakes. Heck i will buy two to play go carting in Chennai traffic.

The pricing is the biggest flaw for a car claimed to be peoples car.

And worst of all between an Alto serviced by Maruti and Nano serviced by Tata, people chose Alto knowing that Maruti can serve better than Tata anyday.

[rohanjf]

Unfortunately, this discussion is going towards what has already been discussed before (in some other thread): why Nano is a failure to some extent (although it sells in thousands, it is still much lower than its manufacturer expected).

I'd like to look at the two cases put forward by FlatOut: Mini and 500. How were these marketed? I get a feeling that they were not marketed as world's or country's cheapest car. Back then, I believe there were very few alternatives. Strong marketing and word of mouth would have made them hits in their respective countries. I do not think Internet would have done much difference (because it can spread both positive and negative publicity). Did the public have alternative options to compare and see what essential features were missing in Mini or 500?

Back then, parking may not have been a problem. Now parking is a problem when Nano is a second car for the family. Many families will not accept Nano as their first car, because it does not have the right image and probably not suitable for highways (without safety features).

What should Nano have done or should do, to be Mini or 500?

[blackasta]

A nano 'sport' version should be launched as a funky car targeting youth.
Replace that 'phat phat' Ace engine with something more powerful - a 1 liter engine is enough. Tune it for performance, not FE.
Get a hatch that can be opened, and replace 4 doors with 2.
Have a PS and optional body kit.

Launch another nano petrol-electric hybrid or diesel-electric hybrid for the city commuters.

IMO TATA is just not trying hard enough.

[GrammarNazi]

Originally Posted by click

...
I do not believe nano falls into this bracket. Apart from making things cheaper, it does not offer any revolutionary breakthrough...

The sheer passenger space it provides is IMHO a decent breakthrough in design. The independent suspension too is unheard of even in higher segments, that's quite a breakthrough. The mileage is definitely breakthrough. At this price point, the crash-worthiness is also a breakthrough.

Originally Posted by VW2010

Just reduce the price by 50K or 75K and the car will sell like cakes. Heck i will buy two to play go carting in Chennai traffic.

The pricing is the biggest flaw for a car claimed to be peoples car.

And worst of all between an Alto serviced by Maruti and Nano serviced by Tata, people chose Alto knowing that Maruti can serve better than Tata anyday.

Please be realistic about prices, IIRC, Ratan Tata promised to sell it at 1 lakh in 2002, don't prices rise over a period due to inflation? Still, IIRC he sold the first 1lakh Nano's at 1Lakh, JUST because he promised so. He was the one who asked designers to give it proper doors rather than just bars (like auto's) in the side. He also asked them to extend the front portion.

Service Experience : Not just mine, read through the forum and I highly doubt you'll come across ANY member who's not satisfied by their service experience at Tata.


As mentioned above, this thread is going the same way as many other Tata threads.

[shankar.balan]

Originally Posted by rohanjf

).
I'd like to look at the two cases put forward by FlatOut: Mini and 500. How were these marketed?
What should Nano have done or should do, to be Mini or 500?

The 500 was an attempt to desperately prop up the flagging industry and spirits of Italy in the post war years. The typical Italian middle class or less well off family then used to buzz around on their Lambrettas and Vespas. The fancy Alfas and Lancias etc were always the preserve of the well off "sportsmen".
Suddenly the 500 came on the scene and heigh ho! There it was, a cute little affordable car for the masses! What a success! The timing was brilliant...

The MINI too was Britain's attempt to create Mobility for the masses and Sir Alec Issigonis's stroke of genius of transversely mounting that old Austin engine, transformed the design, compactness and cute factor...the Mini was a superb example of the design panache of the later 1950's early 1960's. Post war England too, badly needed something to cheer the people from the grim ration driven war years!

In a sense, what VW Beetle did in Germany was very very similar to the above two cases...

America was untouched and untapped and hence became the "cradle of automotive civilisation and leisure motoring, always scads of excess through supersized, super guzzling Chrome laden, effervescently nay extravagantly finned, Detroit Metal...all until the Fuel crisis of the 1970's when things changed to being slightly more sensible there..

We are fat and fulfilled in peacetime and we are inherently very snobbish when it comes to car ownership - in a sense the Maruti 800 was definitive of India's epiphanic Mini or 500 moment!
Those 1960's-70's and 80's were really the bleak years for us regular Joe Indians and we made our transition from the old Yezdi's, Bullets, Vespas, Lambys and Ambys, Mahindra Jeeps and old Fiats.

I clearly remember an article about Maruti in India Today in 1984 - where there was a passing mention of how Maruti helped redefine the status of the ubiquitous, archetypal scooter-riding army officer!
Thats why it led me to say the Maruti was our Epiphany...to receive a second Epiphany by way of the Nano in a time of far higher standards and aspirations, may not really be a very realistic expectation!

[amitk26]

It may sell again, but they need to make people forget it is a 1 lakh ruppee car.
My suggestions

1. Advertise on road Bangalore price for top end on TV as tax is highest here.
This is diametrically opposite to advertising bottom end variant ex showroom Delhi.

Please break the product free from cheapest to own and poor man's car image. Aam aadmi does not want to be seen as poor on the road.

2. Run youth full advertising campaign featuring upper strata of society. Show metrosexual suave models in urban settings going to mountains and beaches unlike current campaign of kid waiting at home for parents to return.

Create an aspirational value. Your target audience may be families in hinterland but show what they fantasise to be, not what they actually are.

Take example of Scorpio they never showed a typical male from rural western up or Hariyana driving the vehicle with "sapranch ji" or "choudhry" writen on rear wind shield.
The product was advertised in typical urban settings with suave males but the vehicle sells in big number among rich people in small towns and villages.

3. Give prominence to space and features rather then millage for time being.
Please break away from image of cheapest car ASAP.

Originally Posted by blackasta

A nano 'sport' version should be launched as a funky car targeting youth.
Replace that 'phat phat' Ace engine with something more powerful - a 1 liter engine is enough. Tune it for performance, not FE.
Get a hatch that can be opened, and replace 4 doors with 2.
Have a PS and optional body kit.

Launch another nano petrol-electric hybrid or diesel-electric hybrid for the city commuters.

IMO TATA is just not trying hard enough.

All the above suggestions means a new car and it should be sold with a new brand name with no overt or covert connection to brand Nano.
No more sumo grande or indigo Manza kind of goofups.