Team-BHP - Tata cars - Reliability and service?

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Originally Posted by greenhorn (Post 3892959)

the difference is of several magnitudes - they have annual expenditures of 15-20K, while I'm getting 40K+
both of them had 2 regular services every year
I had
1 service in Q1 2015 due to a check engine light - + regular service at Mohandas Motors in tvm = some 8K - they serviced the injectors etc,
Q2 the tachometer started dying - alternator overhaul + belt change = 5K
Q3 Check engine light showed up again - Turned out to be a timing issue, plus welding, diagnostics labour etc for rattles due to broken stuff = ~7K
Q4 80K Service came to 23K(belt, gearbox overhaul, bearings, mounts, water pump + other random stuff)

Then new tyres @ 16K - this was because my tyres had worn out unevenly and prematurely @ 35K - I was told that this happens a lot to indicas

add to that Q1 2015 Suspension overhaul, new steering rack (old one was leaking, and i had overhauled it once already) + steering bits & ball joints etc came to a whopping 40K

So far the car seems running ok - the AC is a bit weak in the strong chennai summers, and the engine is becoming very rough again. but I am hoping i'll get through this quarter without any more visits to the workshopplease:

Feel compelled to share an episode I witnessed at local TASS. I was there to get my Safari checked on Rakhi day earlier this week. While waiting in the servicing dept office I noticed a female very angry at a service advisor. What I could understand was that the lady had got a call from TASS to come for fog light upgrade under warranty ( I don't know which model though). She'd also been told that the upgrade would not be FOC after this week. She was supposed to get her cracked fog light changed under warranty so she came to TASS with that in mind. When she got there she was told that the fog light had still not arrived and she was called for upgrading only the fog light wiring. She was livid over this as understandably she felt her time had been wasted and both jobs could've been done in a single visit on a later date.

I saw the arguments go on for at least a half hour and couldn't help putting across the following points to the SA sitting with me.

- Why his team was arguing with the customer and trying their best to prove her wrong? This was the worst approach to pacifying an angry customer.
- Couldn't they apologise to the customer and send her back with the assurance that once the fog light arrived they would have it changed at her residence, or pickup/drop her car FOC for the work to be done at TASS?

The SA's response was enlightening. He told me that they didn't have the authority to offer the suggested solution, only the Service Manager could authorise off-location servicing. But there was no SOP to escalate this issue to the Service Manager and they were expected to handle and solve the issue on their own.

With all TASS staff hellbent on proving the customer wrong, no wonder people hate their service experience. Of course, issues are resolved once they are escalated to Tata Motors but these can easily be tackled at the level of TASS if some common sense is used. Sadly, TASS experience continues to be among the worst in the automotive sector. Lots of work required!

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Originally Posted by carbhaari (Post 3945705)

Most of the folks who have faced tough time with Tata ASS, owned old gen cars (pre-Zest era) and based on that they criticize Tata cars. Nothing wrong in it. Once you get a sad experience, why would you go back to same brand when other proven and tested cars are available in market.

Coming to new Tata cars: No doubt Tata has improved a lot. The quality of cars launched Zest on wards have been really nice.
And recently concluded Geared For Great Challenge says a lot about it.
So I feel reliability is NOT an issue at least with new gen Tata cars.

Now talking about service, that's a big issue. If only the cars are improving and dealerships aren't, it's not going to help. Tata is trying no doubt about it. But changes don't happen overnight. They're on right path. Hopefully, we would see equally good service from Tata.

Well I travel back to 2008-09 when Tata had just launched their most modern and technologically most advanced car by then, the Indica Vista. Most of the Tata Car Observers exclaimed that Tata is improving - they are on the right path, give them some time-It cannot happen overnight , their new cars shows it, et-al.

In my case, I bought a Vista going by the purported change in their attitude. Issues began to crop up from very next day of purchase and continued to do so till the day it was finally disposed off in May 2016. By 2013, when the car completed 4 years of ownership, more than 50% of the cars parts were already replaced under warranty. This included parts such as rear seat mounts, hatch hinges, struts, bonnet lever, window rails, etc., that are not very commonly known to fail so early. The car broke down in middle of highway more than four times in this period. Major repairs included cylinder head replacement, radiator fan replacement, radiator bracket replacement, power window motor replacement, Central locking system failed more than 5 times and what not all. Despite all these repairs and replacements the car never turned reliable. Issues like brakes turning rock hard when moving in lower gear, inadequate A/C cooling, poor FE, strange sounds etc., remained unresolved all along. Few issues (like check Engine light coming up with engine loosing all power all of sudden, in the second year of ownerhip) came and went by themselves just like unwanted guests.

It seems my car was not the sole one that caused problems so that it could be called a lemon. Instead it was the entire model range that seemed erratic as can be seen from feedback by several other owners. It is not just the feel good factor at showroom or service centre, but it is the car as a whole which was questionable.

Moving ahead with time on this day of August 2016 i.e., after a period of about 8 years, the situation does not seem to have improved substantially. Tata cars remain questionable with people raising concerns as “what part next and how much more money to shell out?”, “when all other parts on my car are failing, what is the guarantee that the Airbags would deploy in case of an accident?”

Tata has been making cars since late 90’s and is about to complete 20 years of operations. We are still restating the same words, “Tata is improving - It cannot happen overnight”, “They are on the right path-give them some time”, etc. Well tell me how much more time (and of-course the hard earned money of customers) is required by Tata for setting up things right?

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Originally Posted by King_pin09 (Post 4038774)

Tata has been making cars since late 90’s and is about to complete 20 years of operations. We are still restating the same words, “Tata is improving - It cannot happen overnight”, “They are on the right path-give them some time”, etc. Well tell me how much more time (and of-course the hard earned money of customers) is required by Tata for setting up things right?

Quite honestly, the time that Tata needs to set things right is the time taken by buyers to go beyond just expecting (and willing to pay) cheap cars from Tata.

Nevertheless, Tata Motors have already realized that they need to pull up their socks and focus on product quality and the same can be seen through the ownership reviews of the Zest, Bolt and more-recently the Tiago. Zest owners had initially reported issues about the mud in the engine bay, but nothing more. Tiago owners have not reported any issues, as yet.

If you look at recent history, Tata Motors have taken much longer to launch new products (much against people's liking), but they have spent this time in ironing out defects in their products. Isn't this good enough?

Look at the recent launches of Mahindra (just to compare). Look at the AMT issues with the TUV300 or mileage issues with the KUV100. They have been in rush to launch, and perhaps, the niggles perhaps are an indication of the lack of focus on quality.

Tata Motors are on the right track with respect to their products, however when can they pull up their socks and get on right track regarding service, customer-care and sales experience is yet to be seen.

I was on a drive within Chennai in 2013 Storme, car was idling with A/C running for 15min. Later took the car in few minutes started seeing RPM needle to start dance. Reached a signal and saw battery light to glow and instrument cluster was behaving weird. Thought it would go clean if I switch off and on. Later beauty never started, need to push the truck aside with help of fellow citizens. Informed helpline, they reached after about 3hours in two wheeler (outsourced). Confirmed dynamo gave up. Waited another 3 hours for your tow truck. Got the dynamo replaced in warranty.

Since I traveled from Bangalore, I need to make travel arrangements back to Bangalore :Frustrati

Now speaking on reliability, if this had happened in night time in some highway !

I was told it was Bosch Dynamo. No idea whom to blame.

Much has already been said about TASS and Tata Motors as a company.
I'd still take the liberty to add my experience with a Nano.
We have a 2002 Esteem (yes, we still drive it because it does only 5000 kilometers every year and it doesn't make sense to buy a new car for this) and till date, apart from the routine services, we haven't changed anything.
We have a 2006 Baleno and apart from the suspension and steering bushes we haven't had the need to change anything.
We have a 2015 Nano and we've changed the Wiper motor once, the front power window once and possibly a replacement of the central locking system is imminent (it doesn't lock from inside sometimes).
The point I'm trying to make is Tata does not have Six Sigma quality control just yet. Or maybe they have it, but only for the more expensive models.
In my previous Nano, I changed the driveshaft, suspension (front), steering bushes, power window switches and head light stalk (twice). This was all within 11000 kilometers.
If I compare the 2010 Nano with the 2015 twist, the quality difference is very perceptible. Maybe the 2016 cars are exponentially better than the 2015 ones. That's a sign that they are becoming world class in their manufacturing controls. I've worked with quality control consultants in industry, and one thing they express is that it is difficult to get six sigma levels in India because a lot of people involved in the production process are willing to accept a compromise. Rather than stop the assembly line, they'd rather face complaints from a few customers and provide them a few replacements thus saving on downtime.

However, that approach is penny wise and pound foolish. The aggrieved customer would make 10 other prospective customers unsure about their purchase (which is what happened. Few Nano customers from 2010 have upgraded to another Tata).
It feels good to see that niggles are now a part of the development process. Hopefully the Tiago and Kite will be the flagbearers for Tata's commitment to quality. I'd like to see them perform like the Toyota's.

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Originally Posted by Nissan1180 (Post 4039252)

However, that approach is penny wise and pound foolish. The aggrieved customer would make 10 other prospective customers unsure about their purchase (which is what happened. Few Nano customers from 2010 have upgraded to another Tata).
It feels good to see that niggles are now a part of the development process. Hopefully the Tiago and Kite will be the flagbearers for Tata's commitment to quality. I'd like to see them perform like the Toyota's.

Exactly. Tata were in a hurry to launch their cars without adequate testing for niggles and have learnt their lessons well. That's why quality has been impressive from the Vista onwards but have been the best from the Zest and Bolt.

However, our buying public are always like kids in a candy store. They see it, they want it and now! Even though it was clearly announced at the time of unveiling that the Nexon release is slated for mid-2017, we have a bunch of people who have been calling it a has-been. Whatever you do, the naysayers will always exist.

I would like to see an improvement in quality work at service centers but that would be wishful thinking as the general quality of labour has seen a downtrend overall. There's no passion involved in the job, just money.