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-   -   2014 Fiat Punto Evo : A Close Look (https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian-car-scene/153673-2014-fiat-punto-evo-close-look-7.html)

I couldn't agree more with you on this aspect vsk2009.

I do own one of the fastest diesel hatches in India but I would be the first one to shy away when it comes to talking about its 'Stopping Power'.

I have driven 90HP Punto extensively, which is owned by an extended family and I just wish GT TDI had the Brakes like the ones on the Fiat, even if wishing for that steering was a lot to hope for!! :)


Absolutely sandeepmohan, this is what irritates me a lot as well.

On one hand Fiat claim 90 HP is the fastest Diesel Indian hatch and on the other, it is nearly as slow as one of the entry level diesels Grand I10 Diesel, which hits a ton at 15.88 secs.

Noway would a Grand I10 compare to Punto in terms of dynamics but Fiat must really do justice to the badge 'Sport' else totally take it off the Punto.

For all those who dislike the new Punto's design, here are some pictures clicked by BHPian parrys which might make you reconsider :)

It is NOT the fastest hatch. And I do not recollect Fiat trying to sell using that tag line. IIRC, when 90HP was launched, it came with just a India's powerful hatch decal on the TD car. And come on, you got to be kidding, Fiat is very bad in marketing. Most buys are referrals from current owners.

I find this pretty amusing. At some point or the other you got to be having passengers in your car, agreed it ain't a deal breaker for few but that doesn't changenthe fact.


I definitely agree. When did I ever say it felt faster? I can tell you why.

Lousy gearbox
Fatter tyres
Greater kerb weight
Shorter gear ratios for 1 and 2

While I agree that the ZDi is definitely faster off the blocks, I wouldn't quite agree that it keeps up with the 90 on the highways. At the most, the Swift can keep up till 140 kmph. I do highway drives every alternate weekend and this is purely out of my driving experience and scenarios I faced.


Not probably, it is definitely. The market would have loved a Punto T Jet with a good gearbox.

Very true. Step motherly treatment to the Indian market.

Not to nitpick, but atleast it ain't an RS version with colored wheelcaps and a few decals. :P

Why is this thread suddenly turned into Punto vs Swift discussion? Also all this Fiat Punto bashing is uncalled for. Not because I own a Punto, but I have driven most of the hatchbacks discussed here and I felt Punto is the right one for me for my own personal reasons. I personally feel Punto is an enthusiast cars for the reasons defined by me and not dictated by someone. I would anyday opt for a car which gives me controlled power surge rather than an uncontrolled one. For me the safety aspects of a car is the final decision maker rather than the one that sells more in the market.

Sure. With a T Jet engine on a Punto, you can get away with a lousy gearbox cause when you put your foot down, power is delivered much faster. It would be almost instantaneous. In comparison, the 90 diesel is a yawn.

The claimed 0-100 is something like 11.5sec on a Linea T Jet. Not fast enough when you read those numbers but experiencing that acceleration from the drivers seat is something else.

I know there isn't a market for a turbo petrol Punto but if made available, it gives us an option which will atleast live up to the Sport tag.

The gearing ratio has been corrected in New Linea to a good extent, and I assume it is corrected for New Punto as well.

I suggest you take a test drive on the new Punto and let us know if it is good enough.

Absolutely. And why the obsession with 0-100 numbers? 0-40 or 0-60 are much more relevant in city traffic (even on the highway, I'd say) and the Punto's fast enough on that score. That is, you start from when the light turns green and the road ahead is empty, you catch up with traffic in seconds.

Ah. Probably there is an element missing here - finding the right driving position quickly. I could not find it in the Punto even after two test drives. As a test I walked out of a Punto and sat into a Fiesta. Perfect ergonomics. I am 5' 4".
And this has nothing to do with the euro style stalk positions which is simply cost saving measure.
My wife is 5' tall and even when pulling the seat closest to the steering wheel, she was not able to press the clutch pedal completely. Imagine my disappointment when I had money in my hand on my third test drive to discover that. Punto is not suitable for short people and so is the Chevrolet Beat.

All Maruti cars seem to have good driving positions - I don't know how they do it.
Our highway car is the Mitsubishi Cedia and the driving position is spot-on, though the arm rest goes way behind since the seat is pulled way ahead.
So, I am not anti-Fiat or pro-Maruti. :)

I think the long front nose pushes the pedal placement further away from the driver's seat and that causes this problem.

Mod Note: First & foremost, keep fanboy posts OFF the forum. We will NOT tolerate any biased posts that mislead other members.

Now, back to the discussion:

Absolutely not. We're still waiting for positive changes since nearly 20 years. First, Fiat ties up with Premier. Then it breaks the partnership. It ties up with Tata and again, breaks the ties. In this time of searching & evaluating strategies, other car makers go from strength to strength, relegating Fiat to the bottom of the pile.

Their permanent placement at the absolutely last position in the market says a lot about the strategy (or lack of).

Completely agreed. For some, enthusiast can mean a slow Jeep (myself included), for others it can mean a 450 BHP modification to a Honda City (BHPian Ford Rocam). My comment was in response to your sweeping statement that Fiats are better than the competition. Sorry, but I disagree with this statement and clearly, 99% of the Indian market finds other hatchbacks better too.

Here's where I disagree. To me, the Linea T-Jet remains the best petrol sedan one can buy. Unlike the awfully slow Punto, the T-Jet actually has performance to match its 'enthusiast' aspirations.

That change in reputation sure doesn't seem to be doing any good for them. I don't see an effect on their sales, despite greatly cutting the price and bringing the Linea to 6 lakhs! Neither the price cut or this supposed improvement of reputation has done anything for them, leading one to believe that the 'change in reputation' is perception only.

True. But there are a 100X that number of people taking 'informed decisions' and buying other hatchbacks too.

They're actually surviving only because of their engine business. Ask me if Fiat makes among the best diesel engines available? Yes. The best cars? Far from it.

Actually, this statement isn't farther from the truth. Fiat has EXCESS capacity in India and it doesn't need to invest 'hundreds of crores'. The Indian operations are not a priority for Fiat boss Sergio at all. It's not easy to see why. They even cancelled the plans to launch the Jeep brand last year, indefinitely delaying the launch.

They're mass market products that have been given the thumbs down by the market, and only appeal to a small number of enthusiasts. In that respect, the VW Polo GTs are far superior.

Really? When did they announce this? What fixed set of customers are they talking about? Please share a link. I'd love to know more.

Even if true, doesn't look like their targeting is working as the sales numbers remain the same. Good lip service, if actually provided. Heck, the totally niche & highly impractical 2-door Thar outsells Fiats products sometimes.

Or perhaps, they realised they can't compete in the mass market which expects a company to consistently back them, excellent overall quality fit & finish, frequently updated products, premium interiors, stellar reliability, cars that are easy to drive in the city and have a vast service network that remains stable.

For enthusiasts who want a truly quick car with a solid build, good ride & handling, and detest slowcoaches, there's always the VW Polo GT range.

Absolutely not. But you shouldn't be bothered as much with no. 5 or no. 6 as you should when you are continuously LAST.

As someone who closely follows the market and analyses it for India's largest independent source of auto information...yes, I remain very concerned.

A lost opportunity isn't it? We all would be happy if this was also reasonably fast.

Very bad I would say. A brand should have more sales from marketing to grow faster.

I am confused. So people buy vehicles which they don't love? Sales figures are a sample of how a product matches someone's preference & needs. If Boleros & Swifts are selling in huge numbers, then it means those products are catering to a market/consumers with similar requirements at those price points.

Too much of pure love for the brand. This brand does connect to a whole lot of people in the right way. :)

That's because in the real world, there are more common people and less enthusiasts. Swift connects & satisfies a high percentage of those common people. And you may also agree that it's a package and NOT a product alone that people look to buy.

It would be unfair if ONLY owners can comment on those brand of vehicles and related threads. Having driven a Punto (and Linea) multiple times over long journeys, I can definitely chip in with my feedback; the same way others too.

Sorry mate, you are trying to justify the ergonomic problem here. Nobody uses a clutch for fun; ONLY if they require it.

And I also request you to try some Palios and see how those clutches & gear shifts are, compared to the Punto & Linea.

No one has said Punto is NOT an enthusiast's car. Some people have picked another product over this as per their taste. Well, you choose a car which tucks your heart better right? Everyone makes decision that way.

I think you are one of those unfortunate guys to go thru the bad times. But in general, I have seen my friends getting good service. There are parts which go bad; Fiat makes up for that with their generous warranty policy.

Oops!
And FYI, this is a problem right from 2010 I believe. I remember my friend and a fellow bhpian cum Punto owner asking us to be careful on the lever on his brand new Punto Emotion on day 2 of his purchase.

Even if there isn't any passenger sitting won't the bags open only if the seat belt is strapped. In that case I am wondering why do we even need this feature when the seat belts act like a switch !!!

That post of mine is deleted.
Anyways, the point of my deleted post wasn't merely to highlight the problems that I had faced with my car and Fiat's atrocious response to escalations. Isn't it just pathetic when a manufacturer just doesn't provide a single dealership or service center to an entire state? They even refuse to organise service camps to counter the situation. There is a decent number of Fiat owners here in Assam, the majority of whom had bought their cars from the erstwhile Tata-Fiat dealerships whose presence here was quite extensive. Like the other Fiat owners from Assam, I am clueless on how I am going to maintain my car and where I am going to get spare parts from. As far as warranty is concerned, what's the point when there are no service centers around.

Mods: could you please consider putting my deleted post back?

@GTO:

The best part about a FIAT is living with it. Initially you only notice the messed up ergonomics and the sluggish ratios, but over time everything just gels together so well- you end up feeling connected to the car. So much that the Swift ZDi I once so loved and booked seemed like a toy during my recent drive of a friend's car. Same goes with even the Honda city i drove recently. Except for the VW range, almost everything else feels like a chocolate box tin.

This includes my other new Hyundai- the Xcent. For all their qualities, it is not even close to the driving experience of my little FIAT.

But then, these are feelings you develop over time, feelings only owners tend to realise and I feel that's one of the reasons why FIAT owners aggressively defend their cars, more so compared to any other brand.

No one here wins anything by promoting FIAT by 'misleading' readers with fanboy posts.

There is always a reason for every human behaviour, and if FIAT owners tend to become heavy brand supporters despite all these known shortcomings of the brand- there has to be some feeling only the owners tend to realise over time- which makes them so!

@FIAT owners:

I love my car to the core, but if I were in the market for a performance diesel now- I guess I will end up with the GT TDi. The market has moved on, and sadly FIAT has not. Yes, I still consider the Punto has the best exterior + interior design, but it's totally disappointing to see that they haven't introduced the TJet nor the 1.6 MJD with the facelift.

If nothing else could be done, atleast they could have worked on the gear ratios. Life is not about 0-100 runs but it says a lot about the messed up first and second gear when a stock 75bhp swift is able to keep up with a tuned Punto putting out figures close to a 110bhp at the crank.

With all the talk about targeting enthusiast, FIAT had to give it their best. They did a good job with the facelift, but no matter what is being discussed here on the forum, the effort will only be considered as a half hearted approach thanks to the poor gearbox.

Hope they address these concerns atleast before the Avventura gets launched.



Sent from my iPhone using Team-BHP

There's something about Fiat that elicits extreme emotions from followers as well as haters. :D There's always a debate between two groups of self-confessed 'enthusiasts'. One that fanatically (matches the dictionary definition of Enthusiast) follows Fiat, and other that loves pulling the brand down.

I recently had a lot of negative experiences with FASS (on the T-jet), almost to the extent that I questioned my decision of purchasing two cars from Fiat. Once the anger subsided, I realised that although the service support isn't great, I can't find a fault in the product. For me, the experience of owning a wonderful product, outweighs the irritation created by FASS.

Since this thread is about Punto, I will focus on it instead of continuing with my take on FASS. I find a lot of exaggeration around Punto's shortcomings. I own a Linea T-jet+ and my wife owns a 75HP Punto MJD. Thus, I am sure I have the experience of the best and worst from Fiat, in terms of performance. Let me share my view on some common points

1. Gear ratio - Yes, it's not ideal but nothing that a decent driver doesn't get used to. It can be irritating during a short test-drive but an owner develops an understanding of the gear-ratios, and makes the necessary adjustment in terms of driving style. OTOH, the short first and second gear were quite useful while coasting on surface like this.



2. Power (the lack of it) - It's not nippy, it's not a go-kart but it's certainly not a slouch. I do find the power lacking but that's because I have been spoilt by the T-jet. It has adequate power for city as well as highway. I have done Delhi-Ahmedabad trip in 14-15 hours, twice. That stretch has many stretches, where one can stretch a leg. I could drive at a very decent speed all day long and overtake cars much more powerful (on papers) than Punto, at will.

There's also an option of remap. So, if you want more power, go for it. FASS is considered to be the most lenient in terms of warranty policies thus, the risk of warranty denied is lesser than with other brands. There are a number of owners on this as well as other forums that are enjoying their remapped cars. In fact, there's a member here that uses his Punto 75 HP for participating in drag races and manages to outrun the Swifts and i20s of the world. <I am not that member>

3. Interior - It has now been fixed and the current interior does match Punto's character very well. Even on our version, the look and feel might not be great but it's aging quite well. I haven't checked the quality of the new interiors and the pics aren't the best way to judge interior quality, so will hold on to my comments about it.

4. Ergonomics - This, I agree should have been improved. The under-thigh support in my Linea is much better than the non-existent under-thigh support in the Punto. Pedal placement is also a bit awkward. The way I manage is - push the seat back, raise the seat a couple of notches from the lowest setting, and recline the seat-back a bit. Have driven for ~1000 KMs in a day and managed to report to office on the following day.

5. Exterior - these are completely subjective. It might appeal to some and not to others.

Bottom line - Punto is meant for people that have a budget of 6-8 lacs, want a hatch-back, love driving (outside of city roads), have patience/'spare car' to deal with FASS, and crazily love their cars.

I have taken it to the

Himalayas



and Arabian Sea



It has never let me down, and there's has been no reliability issue, ever. It's more comfortable than many sedans, and more competent than most hatch-backs. I have absolutely no reservation in recommending a Punto. :thumbs up

Atleast in Linea & Punto, air bag activation is not connected to seat belts, does any other car has that provision?

As mentioned earlier, gear ratio has been corrected in New Linea & most likely in New Punto as well.
I can definitely feel better drivebility in lower gears on my New Linea.