[Wheeliej]

This is a nonsensical proposal. I am not willing to pay ANY more taxes. 1 & 2% taxes might sound like a small no. But in no time it will become 8, 10, or 20%....... I have a 7 year old car and extremely hesitant to buy another one due to the extremely high tax regime. The difference between the base price and the on road price is almost double after you add the octroi, entry tax, sales tax, life time road tax, registration charges, service charges, service taxes and all...... And if you shift to another city you pay octroi and registration charges and lifetime road tax all over again,.....And now some clever bureaucrat comes up with a moronic idea to add the cost of highways..... So what in gods good name is the road tax for? Isn't a highway also a road?

[condor]

Originally Posted by rpunwani

I am ok with raising the fuel surcharge and dispensing with the tolls completely.

@rpunwani - so you are willing to pay every day, against paying on that occasional instance ?
ok .....



Most people seem to be missing the point that toll collection has been a money spinner for the road builder & some politicians.

Toll is collected to recover the build costs, and is supposed to be recovered in a few years. After that it is most part profit - after allowing for maintenance cost.

[mmxylorider]

Usage based fee is the way to go. COllecting from all car owners is quite absurd. How is the government planning to track collections from one area/state against road development in that area?

IN today's situation - a driver divides his attention on three major things - Driving itself -
worrying about traffic around him (bad drivers, rule breakers etc)
and road condition (avoiding bad patches/potholes)

I am sure most people will willingly pay toll - if the bottom 2 are taken care of by the company maintaining the road. it would make for a much pleasurable and safe drive.

If the intent is to collect more money upfront, why not sell prepaid coupons that have indefinite validity protecting a driver against future toll hikes (similar to the forever stamp introduced by the USPS). A bulk purchase discount can also be built in. Predictable cash flow/collection allows for better planning of infrastructure.

Infra bonds geared towards road development providing tax benefit or lockin bonds with tax free interest is also an option.

[rpunwani]

Originally Posted by condor

@rpunwani - so you are willing to pay every day, against paying on that occasional instance ?
ok .....



Most people seem to be missing the point that toll collection has been a money spinner for the road builder & some politicians.

Toll is collected to recover the build costs, and is supposed to be recovered in a few years. After that it is most part profit - after allowing for maintenance cost.

@condor - IMHO we need to simplify processes even if it means paying a little more. Obviously the funds collected from this additional surcharge should be given to NHAI for the development of national & state highways - which are used by almost everyone.

Currently, two wheelers just pass the tolls without payment - not fair in my opinion.

[noopster]

Originally Posted by rpunwani

@condor - IMHO we need to simplify processes even if it means paying a little more. Obviously the funds collected from this additional surcharge should be given to NHAI for the development of national & state highways - which are used by almost everyone.

Sorry but it is just naïve to expect that the money collected from car owners as tax revenue will be passed on in a fair manner to those who maintain the roads. Most of the tollway contracts are long-term: how is the NHAI (and other related bodies) going to wriggle out of those or alternatively convert them to fixed-price bids? I doubt they have the wherewithal to pull it off.
As mmxylorider said, the toll system when enforced fairly and uniformly is a very good way to maintain quality of roads. It is direct and offers the most accountability. The problem stems not from the system itself but from the way it is implemented and regulated.

Currently, two wheelers just pass the tolls without payment - not fair in my opinion.

That has nothing to do with our discussion. Exempting 2-wheelers from toll is a policy decision probably taken in the interest of locals who frequent the roads on these vehicles.

[aseem]

Originally Posted by Petropolitan

I feel the need to tax car users in cities like Delhi is much more than the tolls. I fully support the move. Increase of fuel prices is in any case a given, it makes no difference as to what purpose it is being used.

The congestion in cities would come down only when the public transport is robust, coupled with taxing users of congested roads, as in London.

In spite of giving tolls, the roads are not always in great shape. I found this in many cases in Rajasthan and Himachal.

Might as well say that let roads and car be for rich people and let middle class wait in long lines of poorly maintained bus.

[poloman]

I don't mind paying extra tax to the Govt than to some crooked fraudsters who operate BOT roads in the country. These people collect heavy tolls with extremely poor maintained roads with potholes, traffic signals and diversions. L&T operated stretch in Thoppur is one such stretch. L&T Coimbatore bypass is another which is now more than 15 years old. In Kerala the condition of state highways like Thrissur- Kuttippuram, Thrissur-Palakkad via Shoranur etc is better than that of tolled NH47 in most places.

[condor]

Originally Posted by noopster

the toll system when enforced fairly ..

fairly to me is only for the period to recover the cost of construction - and not beyond that. After that, the highway is transferred to the NHAI, which could collect a nominal fee - but not the same old fee. Continuing the same collections as when new is nothing but pouring money into a bottomless pit.

[aseem]

Originally Posted by condor

fairly to me is only for the period to recover the cost of construction - and not beyond that. After that, the highway is transferred to the NHAI, which could collect a nominal fee - but not the same old fee. Continuing the same collections as when new is nothing but pouring money into a bottomless pit.

Do you thing any builder would build a road to recover cost. He wants "millions" in profits...

[noopster]

Originally Posted by condor

fairly to me is only for the period to recover the cost of construction - and not beyond that. After that, the highway is transferred to the NHAI, which could collect a nominal fee - but not the same old fee. Continuing the same collections as when new is nothing but pouring money into a bottomless pit.

Agreed. But how fair is it then to charge a mandatory tax on every car owner, whether or not he uses the roads in question? State governments already collect lifetime road tax on every car sold, which is as high as 18% in some states. But the general state of our roadways continues to be pathetic. You hike that up another 2%, will things improve? Specifically, will the roads that are currently maintained by toll collection agencies improve?

If Yes, then fine! Let the government abolish tolls- I will be the happiest to save 2000+ every time I drive to Bangalore and back! But in the absence of a clear alternative, the current system is the best we've got. Am all for better implementation but abolishing tolls altogether seems like a short-sighted solution.

[condor]

@Noop, I have not supported the increase in Road tax. My gripe & rant is mainly about continued collection.

Originally Posted by aseem

Do you thing any builder would build a road to recover cost. He wants "millions" in profits...

Hey - why just the builder. Pretty much every other guy wants the moon.

[rednikhil]

In my humble opinion, the taxes, excise duties, fuel cess, road tax etc are already way too high in India if you keep in mind the per capita income of the citizens. Rather than looking for new ways to further burden the people, the govt would do well to just do away with the toll taxes altogether and employ the lifetime road tax (that is meant for this purpose) and other myriad taxes/ cess to improve roads and build newer ones. Look inwards to weed out the corruption, non-utilization/ mis-utilization of funds and you will finds there's enough moolah without any requirement of additional taxation.

In fact, I do feel the high rate of excise duties/various taxes etc has a big role to play in the poor and unsafe quality of vehicles that are being rolled out in the Indian market today.

[guruji]

Another loot from the government! Instead of modernizing and automating the toll payment, they are taking the easy way out. There is already a cess of 2.95 on petrol/diesel which is supposed to be for road maintenance. It is essentially implementing a toll on all roads in India.

[chakri400]

I don't understand why this tax should be a percentage as against a fixed number. Whichever vehicle I buy, this proposal says I need to pay toll irrespective of I use it or not. One may buy an alto (pay less) and use the toll roads daily and the other may buy an xuv and use toll roads once in a while. Why should an xuv owner pay more than an alto owner?

The whole proposal doesn't sound practical anyway.

[torque!!]

In my opinion, ETC is the way to go. I have seen how brilliantly a RFID based system works in the US. The only issue there was that there were different versions of the system in different states and what would work in one state did not necessarily work in another. There were efforts to unify the system and I believe that having a pan India ETC system is the answer to our problems.

However, we all know that Implementation is always the biggest issue in India. There have to be enough dedicated ETC lanes on a toll booth. I do not see that in the Pune-Mumbai toll booths nor in the toll booths in Vashi or Thane.
The other key aspect to success of ETC is to have only valid ETC holders entering the ETC lanes. You do not want a cash payer in a ETC lane slowing traffic.
I guess the best way to deal with this is to have a 50% higher toll for people paying cash in a ETC only lane. The way ETC is implemented right now, I say that it is completely useless.