[libranof1987]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

May be they already realise that? What if Toyota has decided that the lower segments require compromises that it can't take? The next generation Etios twin replacement might come with compromised quality from Daihatsu stable, while Toyota can release a premium priced option above it.

That might be a smart move. They then get to have mass sellers and yet don't have worry about brand dilution or negative publicity.

But, I doubt if the market has enough space for a new entry-level, no-frills manufacturer. Esp. given all the publicity this Swift-Datsun Go episode has garnered.

[zenren]

Sensible and welcome move that I've been hoping for since I saw the Premier Rio for the first time and realized that the original was actually a subsidiary of Toyota corp.

While Toyota lets Daihatsu worry about what small car models would be good for India, I don't see the reason why they are not bringing the Daihatsu Terios/Toyota Rush mini-SUV here. That is already having a 5 and 7 seater versions - something which can battle head on with Ecosport as well as Ertiga at the same time. That is the craze in India currently and Toyota is nowhere in picture right now.

Terios 5-seater:





7-seater:

Image source: Wiki

[Mad Max]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

+ 1. But for a different reason.

Attachment 1306704

Toyota is neck to neck with Honda despite having a portfolio of more expensive and premium products. The Etios twins are an exception for sure, but the entire Honda lineup now consists of mass-segment cars and they haven't fared a lot better than Toyota. And the reputation has taken a beating these days.

Toyota needs to learn from it's own portfolio. There is a reason the Innova, Fortuner and Corolla have become a success. Legendary Toyota reliability and fuss-free ownership experience mated to average luxury products. They don't need too much bling and equipments to sell, but shouldn't make the owner feel cheap either like the Etios twins manage to do.

May be they already realise that? What if Toyota has decided that the lower segments require compromises that it can't take? The next generation Etios twin replacement might come with compromised quality from Daihatsu stable, while Toyota can release a premium priced option above it.

Hope the safety standards get established before they make this move. Otherwise we may see a repeat of the Datsun story.

Further quality compromises? The Etios already feels like a tin can. I am not sure what more could be compromised! unless they aim to be the next Datsun.

[zenren]

Originally Posted by Mad Max

Further quality compromises? The Etios already feels like a tin can. I am not sure what more could be compromised! unless they aim to be the next Datsun.

I think that is precisely what Toyota wants to avoid. In case of Etios/Liva, Toyota ended up with some pieces having 100% of the Toyota quality/price and the remaining pieces at ~60% (including skipping parts/features) to meet the overall price target, Daihatsu would be able to do it at a uniform 80% across the board and meet the price and standards for the segment similar to Suzuki and Hyundai, which would seem to be much more better proposition for the buyers.

This is the same challenge with Toyota (Etios) and Honda (Amaze)- their engine and gearbox though of a better quality, costs much more than the Suzuki/Hyundai and hence they need to compromise more in other areas to ensure the car gets priced on par with Hyundai.

For a new car buyer in India who intends to keep a car for 4 years, he wouldn't be too bothered whether his car would have bullet-proof reliability for 8 years or 15 years which is typically the difference between Maruti and Toyota. So this additional cost for the 'useless' reliability is difficult to digest for the customer if that comes at the expense of something else. In case of Innova, the taxi segment would need such reliability considering the heavy running they do and they are the ones who would ensure even private buyers with low run cars actually fetch exceptional resale value making it a VFM. In the absence of a huge taxi interest for Etios, it would be difficult to sell.

[raghav135]

Originally Posted by Mad Max

Further quality compromises? The Etios already feels like a tin can. I am not sure what more could be compromised! unless they aim to be the next Datsun.

I do not believe Toyota is looking for inputs on cost-cutting. Basically Toyota is a specialist in bigger cars, they have only couple of small cars. Daihatsu is a specialist in small cars, so Toyota is asking the experts in small cars division to help them, makes complete sense.

What is not clear is whether they have asked help in "looks" of etios revamping project, or help in doing a completely new car. Whatever be the case, I am very happy

[MHG]

I doubt Toyota should have difficulty fixing its current lineup itself. Here is a bucketlist I have prepared for Toyota which will make buyers turn their eyes:

1. Offer a big diesel (from the Fortuner perhaps) in the Camry and if possible also the Corolla.
2. Since the Corolla and Camry are CKD anyway, up the safety package to that found in North America.
3. Tune the 1.4 D4D in the Etios twins to 88 BHP as found in the Corolla. Atleast do this for the Sportivo version. Also offer the 6-speed Corolla gearbox here.
4. Jazz up the Etios twins with minor bodykit changes. Shouldn't be hard really. Smoke the headlamps, slightly alter the grille and rear to rework the boxiness and offer shining gun metal alloy wheels.
5. Make the Sportivo versions truly top of the line - along with the existing cosmetic bits, also add race car like bright colors like green, red, orange, yellow, etc and include a black race stripe. People love this sort of thing.
6. Beef up the structure of the Etios Twins to improve crash safety. It shouldn't cost Toyota much (and the small price increase can be passed on to customers) but it'll do lots of good. If necessary, combine this with a new interior theme - preferably with all black and all while as an option.
7. Offer 8 airbags on the Etios Twins atleast in the Sportivo versions.
8. Increase Fortuner equipment levels. At that price it deserves 8 airbags, ESC and TC. Ditto for the Innova. Perhaps they'll do this with the next generation anyway since it is supposed to get more premium.
9. Offer a 4x4 Innova with slightly increased GC. Would be a segment first - a 4x4 MUV!
10. Learn from your heritage and don't make the same mistakes as Daimler AG. You are known for cars that last forever. Put these qualities in your current lineup and start playing Toyota reliability advertisements.
11. If any of this helps, give me a free Land Cruiser

[marsbhp]

He he, they did it already - the deadly, macho, terrain crunching Etios Cross!

Originally Posted by MHG

[*]Jazz up the Etios twins with minor bodykit changes. Shouldn't be hard really. Smoke the headlamps, slightly alter the grille and rear to rework the boxiness and offer shining gun metal alloy wheels.

[subratasenn]

If certain reports are to believed Toyota is finally working on bringing a sub 4 lakh car to India. Or this is just again a speculation?

http://www.cartrade.com/car-bike-new...=daily-mailers

The car trade report talks about "certain media reports". What are they?

In any case, a sub 4 lakh small car from Toyota is not a bad idea. The timing is just right specially in the light of safety rating questions raised against certain cars. Toyota is known to provide reliable and trouble-free cars and they seem to be thinking of providing adequate safety in their small cars too.

Toyota has the highest market share (around 50%) in the higher segment cars. This means that Toyota is the Maruti-Suzuki of the country in these segments. They have just added the required glitz in their reliable Etios and Liva models. Spruced up the safety features too.

Maybe time has come for them to get into small car segment?

[gautamkhadse]

will this be the toyota Aygo ? The car looks rather quirky and will probably appeal to the youth .

[rajeev k]

Originally Posted by subratasenn

The car trade report talks about "certain media reports". What are they?

The news of Toyota seeking help from Daihatsu, a group company, for this budget car has already been reported. But what is important is the adherence to safety standards which may not be easier, especially in the wake of failure of several Indian cars on the NCAP tests.

[Parm]

"Toyota will also launch the next generation Innova and Fortuner SUV in the next 1-2 years."

When some one writes such a comment, that shows he is just not having the correct information about his subject.

Anyway, coming back to the topic, I would prefer a Daihatsu Sirion as rebadged Toyota for Indian market. It's 1.3/1.5 Ltr petrol engine could be de-tuned to 1.2 and offered at a very competitive price.

Below photo is just for reference only. (Friends, lets make our threads lively and colorful, by adding photos as references)

[arjab]

Originally Posted by subratasenn

The timing is just right specially in the light of safety rating...

From an OEM's point of view if Euro levels of safety norms are today implemented or copy-pasted onto the Indian auto industry, then every OEM will have to say "bye-bye" to their low cost car manufacturing dreams.
Then the cheapest vehicle in India will start at Rs 4lakhs.

[subratasenn]

Originally Posted by arnabchak

Why Daihatsu?

Because Toyota has a sales tie-up with Daihatsu in most parts of the world. So it's natural that Toyota would go for a tie-up with Daihatsu instead of other brands.

Originally Posted by Speed.Demon

The main reason why the Etios failed is because of the crap interiors and high price.

Originally Posted by libranof1987

If the Toyota-badged Etios/Liva bombed, that too fairly clearly due to how bare-bone they are and the audacious price they are offered at, how is bringing in cars from a no-frills manufacturer going to help them?!

Can you actually call Etios and Liva failures? Have they bombed as you say? Look at the figures. Honda Amaze is around 10% of market share in the segment, while Etios is around 7%. None of them, of course are Dzire having more than 50% of the market share. Here is the chart:

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/attach...nalysis-o1.jpg


Now look at the other end of the story. The heading of this thread is Struggling in India, Toyota asks Daihatsu to help

Isn't the heading of the thread a misnomer? If Maruti-Suzuki is the boss in the lower segment cars, Toyota has its superiority in the higher segments. If Maruti controls about 50% sales volume in the lower end cars, Toyota is about the same in higher segments.
Here is the Team-BHP chart:
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/attach...nalysis-o4.jpg

And as Crazy-driver has pointed out, total volume-wise Toyota is just below Honda. So is it really struggling?

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by subratasenn

Because Toyota has a sales tie-up with Daihatsu in most parts of the world. So it's natural that Toyota would go for a tie-up with Daihatsu instead of other brands.

Toyota is the parent company of Daihatsu. Both have been working together for almost half a century now. Toyota also holds control with more than half the shares owned by itself in Daihatsu.

[shankar.balan]

Originally Posted by zenren

Sensible and welcome move that I've been hoping for since I saw the Premier Rio for the first time and realized that the original was actually a subsidiary of Toyota corp.

While Toyota lets Daihatsu worhey are not bringing the Daihatsu Terios/Toyota Rush mini-SUV here. That is already having a 5 and 7 seater versions - something which can battle head on with Ecosport as well as Ertiga at the same time. That is the craze in India currently and Toyota is nowhere in picture right now.

Terios 5-seater:
i

I have a contrarian view to this. I believe the age of the Hot hatch is here and the age of the SUV is getting a bit past it.

I wonder which manufacturer will be able to get ahead of the curve and monetize this particular consumer tipping point!