[wanderernomad]

The vehicle manufacturing date determines the code the emission has to adhere to. If the vehicle was manufactured when BS III was in norm, it will have to adhere to the standards of BS III through its life.

[sgiitk]

Originally Posted by RSR

The reason is very simple. This move (if implemented as intended) goes directly against the vested interests of the diesel lobby and the oil mafia!

The above mentioned two are the most notorious cabals that are directly and indirectly holding back the advancement of the Indian automobile scenario, in order to serve their own vested interests. They do this by trying everything possible to keep India adhering to lowly & crappy Third World standards (in all spheres, be it safety, emissions, recalls etc.) for as much as possible, and for as long as possible.

Any move by any government or any court will be fought tooth and nail by the above mentioned cabals. They will simply not take anything like this lying down, I'm quite sure.

India's current emission standards aptly reflect the abbreviation used for them.

Most of the country still adheres to the ancient BS-III. BS-IV is still being implemented in phases and will take a while before the entire country is covered. BS-IV may sound like the equivalent of Euro-IV, but it's not! One of the above mentioned cabals (possibly both) have had a hand in diluting Euro-IV norms to suit their own vested interests.

I won't be surprised if BS-VI turns out to be a hilarious joke compared to Euro-VI. The two cabals are perfectly capable of doing such a thing. Already, the pathetic mainstream media morons have begun parroting the rubbish uttered by their paymasters in the diesel lobby and the oil mafia, about how "difficult" and "tough" this planned move is going to be. Some third rate "journalists" are even regurgitating the nonsense fed to them, such as how the planned move of the government may lead to a sizeable "contraction" of the Indian automobile market.

I had the same doubts. The gang came up with the arguments as outlined, but the IITK group said, if need be import Diesel, else good-bye to pollution control. Srilanka is importing all its Diesel. Only about a third of the Sarkari refineries are capable of making even BS-IV fuels. So they buy Euro-V stuff from Jamnagar and then 'cut' it with their own fluids to get it up (or rather down) to BS-IV. It seems quite a lot of the rest is too old to be even ungraded for Euro-VI. So start from scratch! Let us see how far the intent translates into action. You said 2010 so do it by 2019, else we may be buying all Diesel from a single refiner!!

[johannskaria]

The govt has notified BS VI emission norms

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/...w/51176451.cms

[johannskaria]

The notification regarding the draft norms by the government (PDF)

File2005.pdf

[bhandary]

Originally Posted by wanderernomad

The vehicle manufacturing date determines the code the emission has to adhere to. If the vehicle was manufactured when BS III was in norm, it will have to adhere to the standards of BS III through its life.

Then how do we benefit by upgrading the technology? Older vehicles will continue to still pollute the atmosphere since currently there is no system for scrapping of old vehicles. Older the vehicle more severe the pollution. If you recall many of the old vehicles are still used by our government and they smoke very badly from their exhaust. I think government should fix the exhaust gases threshold and any vehicle irrespective of its age should meet the specification. If pollutant levels are not within the specification the vehicle to be either serviced or scrapped.

[wanderernomad]

Originally Posted by bhandary

Then how do we benefit by upgrading the technology? Older vehicles will continue to still pollute the atmosphere since currently there is no system for scrapping of old vehicles. Older the vehicle more severe the pollution. If you recall many of the old vehicles are still used by our government and they smoke very badly from their exhaust. I think government should fix the exhaust gases threshold and any vehicle irrespective of its age should meet the specification. If pollutant levels are not within the specification the vehicle to be either serviced or scrapped.

We benefit since the number of newer vehicles coming on the roads is much more than the older vehicles and will continue to remain on road for a far longer period. Each year the older vehicle numbers drop significantly while the newer numbers get added significantly. Also the newer vehicles get more kms under them on the road than the older ones, and when i say older ones i mean the ones atleast 2 gen behind. Further, the cost of retro fitment, even where possible, will be more than the residual value of the vehicle itself. And as the quality of fuel increases even the older vehicles will perform better on emission though not always at par with the new certified ones. And unless there is a dedicated disposal system for all old obsolete vehicles it is far environment friendly in keeping them running than letting them bleach by the roadside. The number of Government run old vehicles is minuscule which becomes further insignificant with the kind of kms they run everyday. The most dangerous category are the commercial vehicles.

[sgiitk]

Saw a claim by the OMCs that they are coming with BS-VI in 2020. As if it is they are being green, and not that they were ordered to do it. Cheers to Mukesh Sharma (author of the IITK report).

[RavenAvi]

The new emission norms, when imposed, will make cars and fuels more costlier.

The advancement in technology and the successive upgrades to adapt to the more stricter "green" norms will make the respective industries pass on the higher costs to the end-consumers.

Motor fuels could be dearer by 70 paise or more per liter as the whole country will shift from Euro IV-grade fuel to Euro VI-grade fuel by April 2020. According to car manufacturers, passenger cars will see an increase in prices to the tune of Rs 1 lakh - 1.5 lakhs!

Motor fuels could become costlier by 70 paise or more per litre as the country moves to Bharat Stage-VI - akin to Euro-VI - grade fuels by April 2020.

Similarly, carmakers say prices may rise by anywhere between Rs 1 lakh and Rs 1.5 lakh.

The Auto Fuel Vision & Policy 2025 in June 2014 had recommended a 75 paise cess to recoup Rs 64,000 crore of the Rs 80,000 crore investment projected for producing cleaner fuels.

The recommendation came after refiners indicated an incremental increase of Rs 2.64 and Rs 1.43 per litre for producing cleaner petrol and diesel, respectively. This was in addition to the Rs 35,000 crore invested till then for graduating from BS-III to BS-IV in metros and chosen cities and BS-II to BS-III in the rest of the country.

The capital servicing and operational costs was lower at 91 paise a litre for petrol and Rs 2.20 for diesel for shifting from BS-III to BS-IV. But moving from BS-IV to BS-V or BS-VI, fuels costs double. This is because graduating to BS-V or BS-VI requires refineries to put up additional units, while BS-IV can be achieved by upgrading existing systems.

ET

[RavenAvi]

The BS-VI emission norms, which are scheduled to come into effect by 2020, will involve costs estimated to be around Rs 70,000 crores!

Hence, even if the GST rollout is effected by April 2017, made-in-India cars which are scheduled to become more safer, more cleaner, more premium and more fuel-efficient, will end up being more costly.

This will adversely affect the sales of future diesel cars, as costs associated with production will rise steeply, hence final pricing, which is expected to rise by about 20% of today's prices, could be deemed too expensive by the common Indian car buyer.

As a result, the government's FAME initiative could be a real push for more car manufacturers to offer cheaper hybrid/electric options, while car manufacturers will find it easier to cater to exports, once India-made cars come closer to meeting the emission norms in different parts of the world.

Either way, post-2020, the Indian auto market will have shifted to a completely different paradigm than what we are seeing today - all these major policy changes will have a significant say in the way vehicles are made, sold and bought in the Indian market.

Vehicle recall isn't the only area that is getting a look-in. Standards for virtually every aspect of the industry — from safety (crash tests) to fuel emission norms (BS-VI), tax laws (GST) to fuel efficiency standards (CAFE), hybrids & e-vehicles (FAME) to end-of-life scrappage policy — are being reset or newly framed.

Call it the coming of age. Or, simply an inflection point for India's Rs 4.5 lakh crore automobile industry. Two decades back, it was a fledgling industry, selling just 4.4 lakh cars (often dated models), with around five players jostling for space. Today, it is among the world's fastest growing markets with annual sales nudging 3 million units and virtually every global carmaker vying for Indian buyers. By 2020, India is expected to touch 5 million units to become the fourth largest car market.

As worsening pollution made headlines and pressure from the judiciary and environmentalists built up, the NDA government took an unprecedented step to bring in BS-VI norms by 2020, bypassing the fifth stage and advancing the earlier deadline of 2022. This will bring India's vehicular emission standards closer to those in Japan, the EU and the US.

Over 80,000 electric and hybrid vehicles have been sold till now. The uptake of Maruti's mild hybrids cars like Ciaz and Ertiga has been encouraging. Spurred by incentives, the segment is suddenly seeing a lot of action. MNCs like Hyundai, Nissan, Toyota and the homegrown M&M are readying over a dozen new models to launch in the next three years.

Shekar Viswanathan, Vice-Chairman, Toyota Kirloskar Motor:

"We are at the cusp of a significant change. The industry has really grown in the last two decades. Maturity of the regulatory environment is critical. If we have to compete in the world economy, we have to adopt global standards."

Vishnu Mathur, Director-General, SIAM:

"We were stuck in a time capsule. With so many regulatory changes, we are now trying to make up for lost time."

CV Raman, Executive Director, Maruti Suzuki:

"It hasn't happened anywhere in the world. It is not so much about technology. That is available. It's the time and the costs involved to test and roll out all our models that make it so challenging."

Timothy Leverton, President and Head of Advanced Product Engineering, Tata Motors:

"It is not so much the nature of the regulation as much as the timing and proximity of so many changes that makes it more challenging."

Jnaneswar Sen, senior VP (sales & marketing), Honda Cars India Ltd:

"This is an industry with huge investments and lead time. What we need is a clear, longterm roadmap, much beyond 2020."

Rakesh Srivastava, Senior Vice-President, Hyundai Motor India Ltd:

"By 2020, we will see a new dawn, a new order for India's auto industry."

ET

[RavenAvi]

Official notification for implementation of BS-VI emission norms has been issued by the Ministry of Road Transport & Highways.

Download Link (PDF, 44 pages)

[sri_tesla]

The Centre for Science and Environment (CSE), a New Delhi-based green body, has claimed that with the implementation of BSVI, there will be a reduction of 89% in the particulate matter emissions from two-wheelers, while NOx emissions will be cut by 76%. In case of cars, a reduction of 82% in PM emissions and 68% in NOx is expected to be seen.

If these numbers are accurate, its really worth to push the industry for BSVI norms, even if its going to be costlier initially. Also, I am glad the govt is directly pushing for BSVI from BSIV

[RavenAvi]

Come 2020, and all cars will be equipped with stringent, tamper-proof BS-VI (Bharat Stage VI) OBD (On-Board Diagnostic) systems which will keep emission levels under check and will warn car owners if the emissions released from their cars are going beyond the prescribed permissible limits.

“Vehicles shall be equipped with On-Board Diagnostic (BS VI - OBD) systems for emission control which shall have the capability of identifying the likely area of malfunction by means of fault codes stored in computer memory”, stated a notification from the Ministry of Road Transport and Highways.

A senior executive from India's top car maker said, “We have OBDs in our cars for many years but the new OBD system proposed by the government are very stringent compared to the present generation ones. Not only will they be tamper-proof since it will be part of the system it will also alert the driver to take the car to the service center for diagnosis at the earliest by way of perhaps an indicator light”.

This system will also been seen on two-wheelers where manufacturers will have to adhere to the same deadline rolled out in two phases as for car makers. OBD on two-wheelers will indicate the number of kilometers the vehicle has traveled after malfunction.

Business Standard

[sgiitk]

Originally Posted by sri_tesla

The Centre for Science and Environment (CSE), a New Delhi-based green body, has claimed that with the implementation of BSVI, there will be a reduction of 89% in the particulate matter emissions from two-wheelers, while NOx emissions will be cut by 76%. In case of cars, a reduction of 82% in PM emissions and 68% in NOx is expected to be seen.

If these numbers are accurate, its really worth to push the industry for BSVI norms, even if its going to be costlier initially. Also, I am glad the govt is directly pushing for BSVI from BSIV

Quite frankly I have lost regard for the CSE after the death of their founder Anil Agarwal. You cannot be a activist and be rational at the same time. They got into a massive mess after their reports on Pesticides in soft drinks.

As for going from BS-IV to BS-VI directly remember we skipped BS-V due in 2015. I think it was a joint effort of SIAM and OMCs. This time the IITK report said bluntly that if need be import the fuels. However, there is one refinery in India producing Euro-VI. Also, when we introduced BS-IV we diluted Euro-IV under the same pressure.

[volkman10]

Indian Oil dispatches BS VI compliant diesel to Honda Cars India and Mahindra.

The dispatches are to test the viability and engine compatibility of the two automakers’ products.

BS VI standard high-speed diesel will contain only 10PPM sulphur and motor spirit will be high standard also.

Link

[sgiitk]

I have one query. Is the BS-VI about the same as Euro-VI or have the norms again be diluted. As for testing they could have bought almost unlimited quantities from RIL, who are making Euro-VI. quite often our OMC maintain standards nearer to the limits, si maybe using them for testing may not be a bad idea. I remember at one time manufacturers used RIL Diesel since that could pass tests more easily.