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Old 20th December 2018, 07:40   #136
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Default re: BS6 / BSVI emission norms coming in April 2020!

my understanding of 'BS-VI ready' is that full-blown BS-VI needs ad-blue tank and an empty ad-blue tank means vehicle will either be on limp mode or non-functional. So the ECU is programmed in such a way so as to only operate the engine if the ad-blue additive is present to regulate emissions.

Now since in India BS-VI fuel is available only in delhi & mumbai maybe the ECU of BS-VI ready vehicles is programmed to ignore the presence of ad-blue and vehicle will operate irrespective of whether the ad-blue tank is empty or full. But once regulations kick in nationwide and only BS-VI fuel is supplied then just an ECU reprogram makes the car BS-VI compliant.
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Old 20th December 2018, 13:08   #137
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Default re: BS6 / BSVI emission norms coming in April 2020!

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Originally Posted by volkman10 View Post
- A BS VI diesel is roughly going to command a premium of Rs 250,000 over its BS VI petrol counterpart

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Does this mean, 2019 is the year to buy diesels? Ford, VW, Skoda, Tata, Mahindra diesels at current prices will be a great buy next year! We may witness a frenzy of discounts on BS4 diesel vehicles in Dec 2019. Should we buy one?

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Old 20th December 2018, 13:49   #138
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Default re: BS6 / BSVI emission norms coming in April 2020!

I think the 250,000 INR premium is a highly bloated number. All the articles that i have read state that a BS-VI petrol engine will cost 30-40k more than a BS-IV one. Similarly, a BS-VI diesel will cost 80-100k more than BS-IV one. According to these numbers, BS-VI diesel will command a premium of INR 50-60K over its petrol sibling. Add this difference to the current difference between the engines (about 100k) and you still reach 150-160k. Even if you consider the quoted prices to be on-road, the difference would still be under 200k. Ok, i am not challenging those numbers but this is certainly the death of a small diesel engine. Paying 200k extra would not make economical sense looking at the ever narrowing price gap between the fuels.
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Old 20th December 2018, 15:16   #139
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Default re: BS6 / BSVI emission norms coming in April 2020!

Quote:
Originally Posted by surjaonwheelz View Post
Does this mean, 2019 is the year to buy diesels? Ford, VW, Skoda, Tata, Mahindra diesels at current prices will be a great buy next year! We may witness a frenzy of discounts on BS4 diesel vehicles in Dec 2019. Should we buy one?

Drive safe,
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The report mentions that a BS-IV diesel will not be able to run on BS-VI fuel. This will be big downer if you are thinking of buying BS-IV diesel as in future BS-IV fuel availability may get scarce.

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Originally Posted by tarik.arora View Post
I think the 250,000 INR premium is a highly bloated number. All the articles that i have read state that a BS-VI petrol engine will cost 30-40k more than a BS-IV one. Similarly, a BS-VI diesel will cost 80-100k more than BS-IV one. According to these numbers, BS-VI diesel will command a premium of INR 50-60K over its petrol sibling. Add this difference to the current difference between the engines (about 100k) and you still reach 150-160k. Even if you consider the quoted prices to be on-road, the difference would still be under 200k. Ok, i am not challenging those numbers but this is certainly the death of a small diesel engine. Paying 200k extra would not make economical sense looking at the ever narrowing price gap between the fuels.
Most reports have been speculative till now. This is the first report i am hearing from a senior official of a reputed company. What he is saying me be true.
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Old 20th December 2018, 15:35   #140
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Default re: BS6 / BSVI emission norms coming in April 2020!

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Originally Posted by volkman10 View Post
Maruti Suzuki will (almost) end production of BSIV vehicles by end Dec. 2019.
Well this is interesting. Do we know what engine combinations will get converted to BS VI?

Like for example, will the 1.2K Petrol engine be made BS VI compliant or will it be phased out?

Will it be the new 1.5 Petrol engine which will be made BS VI compliant?

The 1.3MJD will anyways be phased out and will be replaced by the new 1.5D engine.

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Old 20th December 2018, 15:47   #141
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Default re: BS6 / BSVI emission norms coming in April 2020!

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Will it be the new 1.5 Petrol engine which will be made BS VI compliant?

The new 1.5 (P) will be BSVI compliant.

Models like Swift, Baleno, Dzire may come in only Petrol-Hybrid and CNG variants .

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Old 20th December 2018, 16:04   #142
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Default re: BS6 / BSVI emission norms coming in April 2020!

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Originally Posted by JediKnight View Post
The report mentions that a BS-IV diesel will not be able to run on BS-VI fuel. This will be big downer if you are thinking of buying BS-IV diesel as in future BS-IV fuel availability may get scarce.
Meaning, whoever has been buying BS IV diesel cars over the past few years and the next couple of years, are required to scrap their vehicles because BS VI fuel cannot be used in them?? That seems to be completely absurd and definitely not an implementable solution!

High time that there is some objective clarity made available by the regulator.

Last edited by arindambasu13 : 20th December 2018 at 16:11.
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Old 20th December 2018, 16:04   #143
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Default re: BS6 / BSVI emission norms coming in April 2020!

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Originally Posted by NFS2024 View Post
Well this is interesting. Do we know what engine combinations will get converted to BS VI?

Like for example, will the 1.2K Petrol engine be made BS VI compliant or will it be phased out?

Will it be the new 1.5 Petrol engine which will be made BS VI compliant?

The 1.3MJD will anyways be phased out and will be replaced by the new 1.5D engine.

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The K series engines will be BS 6 compatible. I guess the only model that will be non compatible would be the Alto 800 with the F8D motor.
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Old 20th December 2018, 16:12   #144
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Default re: BS6 / BSVI emission norms coming in April 2020!

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Originally Posted by arindambasu13 View Post
Meaning, whoever has been buying BS IV diesel cars over the past few years and the next couple of years, are required to scrap their vehicles because BS VI fuel cannot be used in them?? That seems to be completely absurd and definitely not an implementable solution!
My bad. I think i misunderstood. I think what the reports says is that you cannot run a BS-VI diesel on BS-IV fuel. It does not mention anything about running a BS-IV engine on BS-VI fuel. General consensus on this forum is that it should be possible.
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Old 20th December 2018, 16:22   #145
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Default re: BS6 / BSVI emission norms coming in April 2020!

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Originally Posted by JediKnight View Post
My bad. I think i misunderstood. I think what the reports says is that you cannot run a BS-VI diesel on BS-IV fuel. It does not mention anything about running a BS-IV engine on BS-VI fuel. General consensus on this forum is that it should be possible.
Ahh OK. Yes, that was my understanding as well, and in fact, that is the understanding across automotive forums wherever there has been a discussion on this topic.

BS IV engines would run on BS VI (i.e. cleaner) fuels, however, BS VI engines would for the most part not be able to run efficiently on older and less cleaner BS IV fuel. Makes sense!
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Old 20th December 2018, 16:27   #146
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Default re: BS6 / BSVI emission norms coming in April 2020!

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Originally Posted by JediKnight View Post
The report mentions that a BS-IV diesel will not be able to run on BS-VI fuel. This will be big downer if you are thinking of buying BS-IV diesel as in future BS-IV fuel availability may get scarce.
I don't think so, imagine the lakhs of commercial vehicles (trucks) on road. BS4 fuel will have to be made available. Otherwise we are going to witness a great automotive turmoil.

Awareness is missing among the common car buyers. Going by your theory prospects will stay away from BS4 vehicles in the later part of 2019. But with the cost sensitive Indian car buyers, I think they'll happily grab the opportunity to buy a Brezza, Dzire diesel vehicle.

In future (till 2025) gas stations will be having BS4 and BS6 outlets as standard. (my thoughts)

What we know is the auto industry reports but what about petroleum industry, are they ready?

Interesting times ahead!
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Old 20th December 2018, 20:54   #147
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Does this mean even the 1.2 engine will be made BS VI compatible or will it only be the 1.5 petrol engine we are talking about. Any insight on this please?
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Old 20th December 2018, 21:31   #148
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Default re: BS6 / BSVI emission norms coming in April 2020!

If you get a BS6 diesel car and

a) keep driving on BS4 diesel till 4/2020, what will be the effect of the same on costly exhaust treatment systems in place?

b) BS6 diesel on BS6 car but driving in our insane brake-accelerate-brake urban traffic. How long till your DPF gets clogged or the check engine glows up asking you to fill adblue.

---

If you get a BS4 diesel now and keep driving, you aren't gonna face much trouble when the 'less sulphur' BS6 diesel arrive by/before april 2020. Maybe the fuel systems might suffer a life reduction/service in the long run.

---

Looks like end-game for diesels except for inter-city cabs, ultra high mileage runners(2-3 lakh in a couple of years) and those heavy SUVs whose owners don't mind paying the additional service costs.

Last edited by ramzsys : 20th December 2018 at 21:33.
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Old 21st December 2018, 07:36   #149
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Default re: BS6 / BSVI emission norms coming in April 2020!

Let's understand the technical aspects of BS4 versus BS6 before speculation and panic.
BS4 emissions require 50ppm if sulphur emissions, BS6 require only 10 ppm of sulphur be emitted. Two ways of reduction one by adding an ammonia stage to the exhaust (adblue), the other is by filling up with low sulphur diesel.
The addition of an adblue kit is fairly simple, the problem lies when BS4 engines run on low sulphur BS6 diesel, this lack of sulphur causes scoring of injectors in the long run.
However, replacing stock injectors with hardened BS6 injectors will solve this problem. Currently all auto makers are purposely adding to the panic, making it seem as if BS4 cars will stop running post 2020, this is to merely force people to buy new cars which also will be overpriced, to cater to the BS6 engines (nothing but better injectors and a adblue tank).

Last edited by Eddy : 29th December 2018 at 23:45. Reason: typo
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Old 21st December 2018, 08:54   #150
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Default re: BS6 / BSVI emission norms coming in April 2020!

A little off-topic question. When i was part of a Commercial vehicles OEM and the CV industry was moving to BS-III, all our engines saw a downward revision to the engine power output post BS-III implementation. I don't recall the exact reason but it was due to the change in exhaust system only. Now, automotive OEM's have started rolling out BS-VI ready engines (Marazzo?) with certain power output. Will the power output drop once these engine start coming in BS-VI avtaar from April 2020? or will there be no change?
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