Originally Posted by Vid6639
(Post 3985529)
To answer the questions on how it's applicable in the real world. This is how a car behaves at the limit. While you may not experience this on your daily drive but any driving enthusiast will want to know how the car handles at the limit. These situations even occur during an emergency and it is what catches a driver out cause he doesn't know the car at the limit. |
Originally Posted by Vid6639
(Post 3985529)
The Abarth while shows a lot of stiffness in daily usage, actually suffers from body roll as the stiffness is only initially and once the heavy weight loads the suspension, the car actually rolls and you can see the weight transfer very clearly in the videos. The Abarth appears to have a very long travel suspension to aid ground clearance and this makes the weight move around a lot when cornering hard. This also means the car will not be stable under braking. |
Originally Posted by Vid6639
(Post 3985529)
The Polo is definitely setup on the softer side and again due to additional weight this will impact the time especially over chicanes which require quick direction changes. How the car shifts weight and how quickly it recovers is important not just on track but when doing an emergency/evasive swerve on the highway. If you swerve too much and your car is not good at changing directions you are looking at an intimate relationship with the divider. Also, the DSG downshift issue is very very noticable for anyone who drives aggressively, the Polo's gearbox is tuned conservatively for reliability and will not give an aggressive downshift to reduce the drivetrain stress. This is very very noticeable in the ghat sections where you approach a turn and the gearbox is in 3rd but you want second for getting more momentum. The DSG will refuse 2nd if you are carrying more speed and will only give you the shift till you slow down to a lower rpm in third. |
Originally Posted by Vid6639
(Post 3985529)
The Elite i20 came as a surprise as it was the most dull to drive on road but did respectably on the track. |
Originally Posted by Rahulkool
(Post 3985546)
Abarth has very short suspension travel not long, please drive the car once and you will feel what i am talking about. Body roll is less than many new hatchbacks. |
Originally Posted by Lalvaz
(Post 3985562)
What's the basis of these statements that the car will not be stable under braking? My experience has been totally contrary to that statement. |
Originally Posted by heydj
(Post 3985644)
Either there is lot more cynicism these days or internet has made everyone such a expert that they can professionally claim this test to be questionable. |
Originally Posted by heydj
(Post 3985644)
I don't think Tbhp reviews are done under such conditions where car is driven to maximum limit or breaking point, instead the review gives good indication of how car will behave for mass market. |
Originally Posted by kiku007
(Post 3985654)
If OD's conclusion that the Figo was 0.1 seconds wasn't enough controversy, I see amusing conclusions that a properly tuned turbo diesel can take on performance petrols :) I'll wait till the day all race/rally/touring champion cars, supercars and hypercars replace their "performance petrols" to "properly tuned turbo diesels" because apparently as per this thread turbo diesels are better... |
Originally Posted by kiku007
(Post 3985654)
And if it helps, add a poll to ask if people have doubts on the credibility of this so called track test. |
Originally Posted by reignofchaos
(Post 3985687)
Its the same story this time as well - A 100HP diesel with a dead steering and so so chassis beating a 145HP track tuned performance petrol by 0.1s. I'd take it with a pinch of salt. I recently drove the Figo and to be honest, after driving the GT TSi, it was rubbish. |
Originally Posted by keroo1099
(Post 3985689)
Sure, it's lovely to know what the car can do at the limit, but how often are you going to be driving at the limit in actual driving conditions. These test make more sense for roads like the Autobhan/Autostade where you can legally drive the car close to the limit. It would be crazy to try and drive at those speed in India, even on our so called expressways. I too, like driving fast, but I have never exceeded what I felt is my 'limit' on that particular car. I don't think you meant it, but your statement actually promotes driving faster to explore those limits, and that then becomes a very dangerous tool in the hands of an average driver on today's Indian roads. |
Originally Posted by IshaanIan
(Post 3985705)
Actually driven these cars on the limit to be so sure? Steering feedback has zero importance in lap times. All you need is a predictable chassis on the limit. |
Originally Posted by Vid6639
(Post 3985696)
I haven't driven the Abarth Punto like it should be driven but I agree it's a very stiff setup when driving on street roads. However take a look at the video they have on the TV show. The Abarth shows a lot of body roll and a LOT of suspension travel. It looks nothing like a short suspension travel. Under braking there was dive and you could see daylight when it was cornering between the wheel and body. It's stiff initially but looks like it really starts moving when you load up the suspension with the cars weight on heavy cornering. |
Originally Posted by swiftdiesel
(Post 3985465)
Hmm, yes, Audi R8 V12 TDI. I also remember it winning the gruelling Le Mans usually dominated by petrols. |
Originally Posted by reignofchaos
(Post 3985712)
I know I'd get banned if I mention the speeds I went to so I'd rather not mention them lol:. I drove it for a whole 100'ish km on NH4 towards Kolar which has lots of curves and the tyres were squealing their heart out so yes I was close to the limit of grip available. |
Originally Posted by reignofchaos
(Post 3985712)
To be honest the chassis felt softer than the one in the Polo. This was the 1.5 VCT however. The diesel will only have more understeer as the engine would be heavier. |
Originally Posted by swiftdiesel
(Post 3985465)
Hmm, yes, Audi R8 V12 TDI. I also remember it winning the gruelling Le Mans usually dominated by petrols. |
Originally Posted by Rahulkool
(Post 3985713)
Please go and take a test drive, i don't think you can judge a cars suspension like that from video. |
Suspension travel and roll is minimum in Abarth compared to all the hatchbacks i have driven. Again here i am comparing it to other hatchbacks. |
Even with 5 people on board, the suspension on my car didn't sagged a bit or car felt bottoming out on bad roads at highway speeds. |
Originally Posted by IshaanIan
(Post 3985734)
Lol having had plenty of experience on the track, I can tell you that it is not about the speeds you touch or how much you get the tyres to squeal. Driving a car on the limit involves a lot of practice and is more a dance of its weight and traction with consistently high speeds through every scenario rather than a show of its grip or top speed. Without knowing the techniques of left foot braking to prevent unsettling on undulations, provide better front wheel traction and manage shift of weight coupled with rev-matching, it is impossible to actually drive the car at its limits. These skills take years to hone and perfect and I have not seen more than a handful of drivers with no track experience, that know these techniques and no-one that can actually admirably utilize these skills close to the limit without atleast several hundred hours of hooning about on a track. You can reach 95% of the car's potential but unlocking that last 5% is crucial to actually feel what it's like on the limit. Don't mean to offend you in anyway, I have witnessed many enthusiastic drivers on the streets that make similar claims and most of the time I refrain from commenting, I respect your opinion and I'm sure it was fun driving these machines on the highway never fails to please, just wanted to share information that's all :) Yes it is softer however striking the right balance between stifness and flexibility has always been key to maintaining control close to the limit. If it is all just stiff, the car becomes temperamental and could lose grip and traction in a snap. That said all the cars could be a lot stiffer to perform better. I too feel the Polo is a better car on the limit absolutely easy to predict its behavior and stay on top of it. Had the Polo and petrol Figo been offered with manual gearboxes, it would be a fight between the two for top place IMO. A battle between the sheer power-to-weight ratio of the 1.5 liter petrol Figo, and the amazingly balanced chassis of the Polo. :D |
Originally Posted by Vid6639
(Post 3985744)
If not then I'll stick with my opinion and the video which showed body roll. Ofcourse you are free to disagree with my opinion. :) Even my Ecosport doesn't sag with 5 people + luggage and has a stiff suspension which is painful on bad roads. But the car has plenty of body roll when pushed and is a handful. |
Originally Posted by reignofchaos
(Post 3985761)
However the point I'm trying to prove is this - a road car that has a good chassis with very basic mods and a significantly stiffer suspension is still a great track tool. Take a look at the Etios for example. With a simple change to suspension and brakes, it laps MMST in 2:05 which is close to many supercars. However is it the best road car out there? Probably not! So anytime a track test is done on bone stock cars, there are a million things that can change with some basic mods and the car would lap tens of seconds quicker with that. I'm sure that the slowest of the bunch - the Jazz could be made to go 5-6 seconds faster than the fastest in the bunch with basic mods. |
Originally Posted by Vid6639
(Post 3985707)
You don't need Autobahns as I was nowhere saying drive fast at illegal speeds. You can explore the limits by just driving to the nearest hill station. A drive to Yercaud, Ooty, Kodai, Yelagiri etc and you will realise these characteristics. Ofcourse you need to drive these cars back to back or have experience with a lot of cars to be able to distinguish these characteristics. |
Originally Posted by Vid6639
(Post 3985707)
If not, then your car will be the best and nothing comes close will always be the final conclusion. |
Originally Posted by Rahulkool
(Post 3985546)
Abarth has very short suspension travel not long, please drive the car once and you will feel what i am talking about. Body roll is less than many new hatchbacks. |
Originally Posted by Vid6639
(Post 3985696)
I haven't driven the Abarth Punto like it should be driven but I agree it's a very stiff setup when driving on street roads. However take a look at the video they have on the TV show. The Abarth shows a lot of body roll and a LOT of suspension travel. It looks nothing like a short suspension travel. Under braking there was dive and you could see daylight when it was cornering between the wheel and body. ...... On street roads teh Punto is still going to be unbeatable but you can clearly see in that video that the car had body roll issues on that track. |
Originally Posted by .anshuman
(Post 3770423)
Since the car is still being worked on, I was not allowed to drive it, but I got an opportunity to ride in it as a passenger. The acceleration is really strong. On the straights, it easily passed the 170 kph mark despite being driven relatively easier and overall, it had ample power to justify the Abarth tag. The body lean and massive amount of roll, however, felt similar to the regular Punto - just not right for a car with an Abarth tag. I hope this is not the final version. The Fiat MD had mentioned a stiffer suspension for the Abarth Punto, I just hope it's going to be much stiffer than this and lower too. |
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