[rkg]

this is in todays rediff site
November 10, 2006 10:14 IST

Tata Motors is giving its Indica a smaller 1,200cc petrol engine, which is set to be launched next week. Tata Motors took this step to get the benefit of a reduction in excise duty from 24 per cent to 16 per cent for small cars, as outlined in the Union Budget 2006-07.

In the Budget, the finance minister had defined a small car as one that is not longer than 4,000 mm and with engine capacity not exceeding 1,500cc for diesel and 1,200cc for petrol. The Indica is 3,675 mm long.

The price of the 1,200cc petrol variant of the Indica is likely to be between Rs 2.25 lakh (225,000) and Rs 2.40 lakh (240,000), ex-showroom Mumbai.

The Indica has dimensions similar to the Maruti Suzuki Swift and the Hyundai Getz, but it will now have a price tag comparable to that of the much smaller Maruti Suzuki Alto. The existing Indica Xeta petrol car prices vary from Rs 2.92 lakh (Rs 292,000) to Rs 3.98 lakh (Rs 398,000).

The 1,200cc engine is a variant of the Indica Xeta's 1,396cc four-cylinder unit and its power output is likely to be around 55 bhp, compared with the Xeta's 70 BHP.

Though Tata's partner Fiat has a 1,242cc engine in its stable, this is not a direct fit in the Indica engine bay. Also, it would have been cheaper for Tata Motors to re-engineer their existing 1,400cc unit than source it from Fiat.

A Tata spokesman, however, said Tata Motors did not comment on future product development.

Meanwhile, Tata is also readying the luxury version of the Indigo, the Indigo XL, with a long wheelbase. This car, which was showcased at the Auto Expo, has a wheelbase that has been lengthened by 15 cm to offer more legroom.

It will be a top-end variant of Tata's three-box car and is expected to be launched by January 2007. A 100 BHP petrol engine and later, a common-rail direct injection variant of the 1,400cc turbodiesel, will power this car. Tata Motors is reportedly setting up a special assembly line for the Indigo XL at its plant in Pune.

[kvish]

I think Alto will be running for cover... Imagine, for the same price you get a car of a league above and Much safer one too.... but it will be good to see how this engine manages the heavy car...

Tata and Mahindra are truly on a roll.... good for us!

[tsk1979]

The 100bhp petrol Indigo was driven by autocar a few months back, and they liked it. It wont be a scorcher, but it is miles ahead of the current engine due to its 16 valve twin cam head.
The best part is the legroom.

Here are the specs, though the diesel engine specs will now change

Looks wise, there is nothing new, it looks a little too long infact

[elf]

That's really great. Now we'll have even more sluggish Indicas in traffic to battle with. Anybody else noticed, that in general, they (along with Premiers) are the worst driven cars anywhere?

[Steeroid]

From your pics I can see separate a/c controls for the rear including a cooling coil, lumbar support, foldable rear armrest with cupholders and aircraft-style tray tables.

They seem to be throwing in everything - its a pity because of that ridiculous dashboard and driving position. They need to redesign the interiors, especially the dash. More is not necessarily better and @ 55 BHP I dont think less is better either. It will be a slow car.

[directinjection]

Originally Posted by rkg

this is in todays rediff site
November 10, 2006 10:14 IST


The 1,200cc engine is a variant of the Indica Xeta's 1,396cc four-cylinder unit and its power output is likely to be around 55 bhp, compared with the Xeta's 70 BHP.

Just 55 BHP from a 1200 CC engine? That's pathetic, more so because the car weighs as much as 1000 kilos. Considering that Swift 1300 CC develops 87 BHP (though at a higher RPM), the 1200 CC unit should develop at least 70 BHP. Tata should give the 1200 CC engine 16 valves, to compensate for the reduction in CC, so that there is no loss of power.

In my opinion, lowering a product's price can give you a competitive edge only if you keep the product attributes constant. When you reduce the price as well as product quality (in this case by way of loss of power), you remain where you are.

[tsk1979]

Originally Posted by Steeroid

From your pics I can see separate a/c controls for the rear including a cooling coil, lumbar support, foldable rear armrest with cupholders and aircraft-style tray tables.
They seem to be throwing in everything - its a pity because of that ridiculous dashboard and driving position. They need to redesign the interiors, especially the dash. More is not necessarily better and @ 55 BHP I dont think less is better either. It will be a slow car.

The pics are XL which will have a 100bhp twin cam 16 valve engine. Indica 1200cc was not even mentioned at the Expo.

[tsk1979]

Originally Posted by directinjection

Just 55 BHP from a 1200 CC engine? That's pathetic, more so because the car weighs as much as 1000 kilos. Considering that Swift 1300 CC develops 87 BHP (though at a higher RPM), the 1200 CC unit should develop at least 70 BHP. Tata should give the 1200 CC engine 16 valves, to compensate for the reduction in CC, so that there is no loss of power.
\

I suspect they may do that.
Replace the entire Indica/Indigo fleet petrol with the new engine(Same block).
so you have a equally fuel efficient indica with around 85-90bhp, a tuned version for indigo putting out 100bhp and the 1200cc 70bhp engine on the smaller indica.
They cant stick to the old head due to new emission norms. I think Apr 2007 will see E-IV(correct me if I am wrong) and plenty of new engines from Tata.

[yeis]

Originally Posted by tsk1979

I think Apr 2007 will see E-IV(correct me if I am wrong) and plenty of new engines from Tata.

In India BS-IV or Euro-IV is applicable from Apr-2010, right? Will manufacturers like Tata, Maruti etc start producing E-4 engines this early?

[goldie_malhotra]

Originally Posted by directinjection

Just 55 BHP from a 1200 CC engine? That's pathetic, more so because the car weighs as much as 1000 kilos. Considering that Swift 1300 CC develops 87 BHP (though at a higher RPM), the 1200 CC unit should develop at least 70 BHP. Tata should give the 1200 CC engine 16 valves, to compensate for the reduction in CC, so that there is no loss of power.

In my opinion, lowering a product's price can give you a competitive edge only if you keep the product attributes constant. When you reduce the price as well as product quality (in this case by way of loss of power), you remain where you are.

Sure, it would be sluggish, but given enough low-end torque, it might still be driveable in the city. And at that price range - there is no point comparing it with Swift which is twice the cost. Rather compare it with the Alto, which is no scorcher itself.

From the point of view of a entry-level car buyer, who doesn't have the money to go for a santro/wagon-r, only has the Alto and 800 to consider. And though they might be cheap to run, they are very cramped, and have very bad ride quality. This mini-Indica would offer all that they offer, plus more space and comfort.

Now if only they would have priced a 1200cc Dicor mill at the same price - would knock the pants off Alto for sure

[directinjection]

Originally Posted by Steeroid

They seem to be throwing in everything - its a pity because of that ridiculous dashboard and driving position. They need to redesign the interiors, especially the dash.

They did improve the driving position when they introduced the Marina, by increasing the seat height. This improvement was later passed on to Indica as well. (I'm sure Indigo would have benefitted too). I drove a later model Indica some time back and discovered that one gets a much better view of the road now, in spite of that high sill dashboard.

Actually, more than the interiors, it is the exteriors that beg for a change. I'm sure the Indigo exteriors were designed by a brain-dead guy.

Looks like they'll introduce changes of substance only when they launch the new Indica platform.

[carfreak]

perhaps tata should fit in the palio 1.2 engine-guess would be a much better option.

[directinjection]

Originally Posted by tsk1979

They cant stick to the old head due to new emission norms. I think Apr 2007 will see E-IV(correct me if I am wrong) and plenty of new engines from Tata.

Euro-IV comes into force in India only w.e.f. 1 April, 2010, that too in the metros and NCR.

Check this link: http://www.ecmaindia.com/indian.html

Tata is already exporting Euro-IV Indicas to Europe. A look at their engine specs may reveal what to expect here. Europe went Euro-IV w.e.f. 1 January, 2005.

[tsk1979]

Originally Posted by carfreak

perhaps tata should fit in the palio 1.2 engine-guess would be a much better option.

They cant, its 1242cc. This excercise is to get the excise cut benefit. Redesigning that engine will make the cost go for a toss and they would not be able to price it in Alto territory

[Mpower]

Well the 1.2 liter is a great move by Tata and compared to 800cc altos, I dont think target customer will complain although they should be able to do better than 55 bhp. Most likely they will just reduce the piston size which means hardly any cost savings.

Another way to do it is to lop off one cylilnder (1.4/4 *3= 1150 cc) and make it a 3 pot..that way the engine will be cheaper and have less friction (= more FE) at the cost of some smoothness.

Originally Posted by directinjection

They did improve the driving position when they introduced the Marina, by increasing the seat height. This improvement was later passed on to Indica as well. (I'm sure Indigo would have benefitted too). I drove a later model Indica some time back and discovered that one gets a much better view of the road now, in spite of that high sill dashboard.

You mean they raised the whole body. Otherwise if you raise the seat, you need to raise the steering wheel correspondingly otherwise you sit funny.