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Old 4th October 2017, 18:54   #46
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Default Re: Tata Motors gets government order for 10,000 Electric Vehicles (beating Mahindra & Nissan)!

Its great that Mahindra has been given a chance to be part of this venture, too.

But, no report mentions why did EESL change the order / tender? I'm sure Tata must have given that price, considering the scale of 10,000 cars. Isn't it unfair to them?

What was the reason for this change in stance? Did Tata request it? Or did EESL did it on its own? Type of questions these news reporters should have asked.

I guess we will have to wait till someone's birdie chirps.
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Old 4th October 2017, 19:31   #47
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Default Re: Tata Motors gets government order for 10,000 Electric Vehicles (beating Mahindra & Nissan)!

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Originally Posted by ashutoshb View Post
Its great that Mahindra has been given a chance to be part of this venture, too.

But, no report mentions why did EESL change the order / tender? I'm sure Tata must have given that price, considering the scale of 10,000 cars. Isn't it unfair to them?

What was the reason for this change in stance? Did Tata request it? Or did EESL did it on its own? Type of questions these news reporters should have asked.
My apologies, it's mentioned in the ACI Pro article.

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The tender document allows maintaining a 60:40 procurement split between the initially winning bidder and the second contender, if it revises the quote and matches other’s price.
Source: ACIP
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Old 4th October 2017, 20:14   #48
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Default Re: Tata Motors gets government order for 10,000 Electric Vehicles (beating Mahindra & Nissan)!

M&M has matched Tata's bid price for the first phase of 500 vehicles and as such will get the chance to deliver 150 vehicles out of the total 500. M&M will once again be given chance in the second phase, when the remaining 9500 vehicles are to be delivered, to match Tata's bid and bag 40% of those vehicles.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/...w/60941943.cms
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Old 5th October 2017, 05:51   #49
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I think it is a win-win situation for both the companies. They can work together to expand the reach and affordability of electric vehicles in India.
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Old 5th October 2017, 07:46   #50
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Default Re: Tata Motors gets government order for 10,000 Electric Vehicles (beating Mahindra & Nissan)!

Has Tata Motors come out with the technical specifications of the EV? Where will the battery pack be mounted? Under the bonnet or under the seats as in a Tesla? Where ever it is, I hope that the battery pack is given adequate crash protection to ensure that the battery does not explode in case of a crash or an hit to the under belly from the bad and no roads in India.
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Old 5th October 2017, 10:54   #51
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Default Re: Tata Motors gets government order for 10,000 Electric Vehicles (beating Mahindra & Nissan)!

Came across this story that says EVs are actually impractical, and we are being led up a blind alley by car makers. Basically, lithium deposits will run out much before we get anywhere near EV targets and deadlines.

https://thewire.in/184417/indias-ele...g-blind-alley/

I have no idea whether its an exaggeration - but nations' governments are quite capable of such mis-steps. Or they are in it too, with a different end-game - fuel cells perhaps - as the real objective, and EVs are just a stop-gap which they do not want to tell us about.
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Old 5th October 2017, 11:13   #52
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Default Re: Tata Motors gets government order for 10,000 Electric Vehicles (beating Mahindra & Nissan)!

All is fine, but the one thing caught my eye was the rather paltry range of 100Kms for the electric Tiago.

Government drivers are known for not having a light foot, so we can expect a range of hardly 80-90Kms. That is just too low!

Assume a Govt officer, going on an inspection/official work, from his office in south Bangalore to the Northernmost point, like say Yelahanka. In this case, he can reach the destination, but will be forced to wait for 2-3 hours for the vehicle to get charged, to return back to his office.
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Old 5th October 2017, 13:02   #53
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Default Tata Motors gets government order for 10,000 Electric Vehicles (beating Mahin...

So Mahindra gets a pie of approx 30% of the electric car order. Well then what was the use of tendering and all when they had to change the proposal later on. I think Mahindra did provide a heavy briefcase for the same.
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Old 5th October 2017, 13:30   #54
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Default Re: Tata Motors gets government order for 10,000 Electric Vehicles (beating Mahindra & Nissan)!

Quote:
Originally Posted by lawdgawd View Post
Came across this story that says EVs are actually impractical, and we are being led up a blind alley by car makers. Basically, lithium deposits will run out much before we get anywhere near EV targets and deadlines.
https://thewire.in/184417/indias-ele...g-blind-alley/
I have no idea whether its an exaggeration - but nations' governments are quite capable of such mis-steps. Or they are in it too, with a different end-game - fuel cells perhaps - as the real objective, and EVs are just a stop-gap which they do not want to tell us about.
This wouldn't be the first time a govt. has been caught with its foot in the mouth (assuming this to be true!), but I don't get the fuel cell allusion. Fuel cells emit steam as waste, and commercial extraction of hydrogen from water still seems a way off. And the fuel cell technology itself is secured tighter than Fort Knox, with Ballard Corp. of Canada holding the technology patents. There is no talk of any licencees so far.

Lithium stocks running out is possible, but not bio-fuels' source material (jatropha & bio-waste). A while back there was a lot of noisy signal about this, culminating in M-B sending a team of C-class cars, powered by bio-diesel (jatropha) from Kashmir to Kanyakumari to establish viability. Then the noise died down to a whimper & is now in cold storage. The argument that the carbon footprint remains high did not seem to hold, since this was not fossil carbon. It was part of the living bio-sphere & would recycle back into it.

Last edited by shashanka : 5th October 2017 at 13:40.
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Old 5th October 2017, 14:03   #55
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Default Re: Tata Motors gets government order for 10,000 Electric Vehicles (beating Mahindra & Nissan)!

Quote:
Originally Posted by lawdgawd View Post
Came across this story that says EVs are actually impractical, and we are being led up a blind alley by car makers. Basically, lithium deposits will run out much before we get anywhere near EV targets and deadlines.

https://thewire.in/184417/indias-ele...g-blind-alley/

I have no idea whether its an exaggeration - but nations' governments are quite capable of such mis-steps. Or they are in it too, with a different end-game - fuel cells perhaps - as the real objective, and EVs are just a stop-gap which they do not want to tell us about.
Interesting viewpoint. The whole economy factor would run out, if the batteries are going to cost dearer. However, when we say EVs, they need not always be Lithium. There are several possibilities being researched everywhere these days and the push towards EVs would actually give further push towards improvements in the science of batteries.

Sooner or later companies would come up with a better solution to this problem, as they need an economically suitable solution to market it to the customer, while also earning their profits.

Good that our Government is making such a move to go ahead and place the largest single order of EVs. So, within a year or two we will start seeing EVs everywhere in our country.
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Old 5th October 2017, 16:45   #56
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Default Re: Tata Motors gets government order for 10,000 Electric Vehicles (beating Mahindra & Nissan)!

Just now read in the Financial Express article that Tata Motors got orders for first 250, Mahindra got for 150 and the rest 100 numbers will be revealed soon.

And it also mentions Tata Motors and Mahindra will be allowed to participate in the Phase 2 (9500 number of EVs), by virtue of winning Phase 1.

What if these two does not manage to win Phase2? Seems things are not as easy as it seems .

Last edited by aah78 : 5th October 2017 at 20:55. Reason: correction. EDIT: Use full forms, please. Thank you!
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Old 5th October 2017, 17:22   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fordday View Post
Just now read in the Financial Express article that Tata Motors got orders for first 250, Mahindra got for 150 and the rest 100 numbers will be revealed soon.

And it also mentions Tata Motors and Mahindra will be allowed to participate in the Phase 2 (9500 number of EVs), by virtue of winning Phase 1.

What if these two does not manage to win Phase2? Seems things are not as easy as it seems .
If my understanding is right, I believe Tata has already won the bid for 10,000 cars. However, because of a provision the second best bidder was allowed to match the winning bid and corner 40% of the entire bid. In this case Mahindra matched the bid in phase 1. As far as 2nd phase is concerned, Mahindra gets the option to once again match Tata's bid to get 40% of the remaining 9500 vehicles. Tata, by default is eligible, as winner of the bid, to supply the remaining 9500 vehicles

Last edited by aah78 : 5th October 2017 at 20:55. Reason: Quoted post was edited.
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Old 5th October 2017, 19:30   #58
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Default Re: Tata Motors gets government order for 10,000 Electric Vehicles (beating Mahindra & Nissan)!

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Originally Posted by GTO View Post

The ever classy Anand Mahindra .
Looks like Mr.Mahindra is playing the game here. Pawan Goenka takes a dig at tata motors.

http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/...cle9889051.ece
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Old 5th October 2017, 19:37   #59
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Default Re: Tata Motors gets government order for 10,000 Electric Vehicles (beating Mahindra & Nissan)!

If the range is indeed 100 km, that must be in ideal conditions, think what will happen if a minister or an official start from his Gurgaon home and wants to reach parliament, half of this cars juice will be gone before Dhaulakuan in traffic

I can imagine most of these doing duties in and around parliament as golf cart rides in some time

Coming to specifications on tender, is anyone aware of all the requirements? I could not find online.


From the link, I can only feel

The third bidder, Japan's Nissan Motors, which undertook to supply 500 e-vehicles from its showrooms in that country, was disqualified as it did not meet the technical specifications.


Read more at:
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/...campaign=cppst

Last edited by Turbanator : 5th October 2017 at 19:39.
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Old 6th October 2017, 01:21   #60
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Default Re: Tata Motors gets government order for 10,000 Electric Vehicles (beating Mahindra & Nissan)!

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Originally Posted by amrutmhatre90 View Post
Very well said mate, but they do not need to discontinue the Tigor. The only weak link in the Tigor was the engine, but with the electric Tigor his issue will be sorted. This will be a serious threat to the sedans if launched around 9-10 lakhs.
I agree. If you read my post again, I was suggesting discontinuation of the normal (internal combustion/IC engine) Tigor and relaunch as an electric only vehicle. The electric motor's torque should take care of the Tigor's weak engine problem.

It is the price target I am surprised about. I did not expect a tigor sized electric car for less than 15L before 2020, and I suspect it has been achieved by keeping the battery pack small. So, range may be compromised. That means next couple of years' reduction in battery costs may go towards improving range. I seriously doubt an electric car will have mass success in India below a 250km range on a single charge.

The larger point is that we are likely to be ready with practical, good range models under 10Lacs within 3-5 years. That's 2020 - 2022. A decade ahead of Mr. Gadkari's 2030 plan. I think the minister is doing a great service to companies like Maruti Suzuki by trying to wake them up from their slumber. The energy transition in Indian transport will be faster than expected.

I just hope the minister can also push for a realistic charging infrastructure. We need ability to charge the cars with relatively cheap electricity during off peak hours. Smart meters and a standardised smart plug can easily do that, if govt policy pushes for it. Mandatory charging slots in car parks can make the urban transition quickly, in a phased manner.

Last edited by guptad42 : 6th October 2017 at 01:23. Reason: typo
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