[tsk1979]

Come 2007, CNG will be mixed with Hydrogen in Delhi.

The process will start by blending hydrogen with CNG to reduce nitrogen oxide and particulate-matter emission from vehicles by about half. "Hydrogen is the cleanest among all available fuels, including bio-fuels. Its burning emits no carbon and the final result is water," said Dr SK Chopra, special secretary, Ministry of Non-Conventional Energy.

The country's first hydrogen-filling station will begin functioning at the Indian Oil Corporation (IOC)-owned petrol pump near Nigambodh Ghat.
"By next year, a dispenser each for filling pure hydrogen and hydrogen mixed with CNG will be available in Delhi," said Dr RK Malhotra, general manager, R&D, IOC. The cost—Rs 5 crore—will be shared by the IOC and the ministry. The station will be able to provide fuel to about 1,000 vehicles a day.

[esteem_lover]

Will it also make the fuel cheaper ?

[Ironhide]

From Al Jazeera's youtube channel

A team of engineers in India is trying to help solve the country’s air pollution problem by inventing a hydrogen-powered automobile engine that they say emits virtually no pollution.
Their invention has received three patents and Japan has become the first foreign country to allow the product to be imported.
It’s expected to roll out for commercial use soon and one of the inventors hopes the technology will replace conventional engines.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pa_y7_TRho

According to the video , Japan, which is significantly invested in Fuel Cell Tech, has shown interest in this technology.

Cheers !

(Video courtesy : YouTube )

[srishiva]

Since it works of exhaust heat recovery, is it the same engine that is also running on Hydrogen ? Or uses a hybrid type of another engine (would be like a electric-ICE hybrid ).

Not sure how much hydrogen it can generate in a standard drive cycle. Need to look at the patent for more details !

I have seen steam used to drive generators or power pistons in the compression stroke with heat recovery. First time I am hearing about generating hydrogen.

Isn't it moot to do this when you can easily move to pure electric drivetrains ? Where will you get distill water for this ?

[volkman10]

The confused government now promotes Hydrogen as an alternate fuel.

the focus of the country is to make industry-ready to utilise hydrogen as a fuel for transportation.

India has tested the Hydrogen Vehicle. Now have to make ourselves industry-ready to utilize hydrogen as a fuel for transport

Link

[puntOOs]

Originally Posted by volkman10

The confused government now promotes Hydrogen as an alternate fuel.

The process of - Solar energy -> electricity -> run battery EV - is better than - Burn coal -> electricity -> run battery EV - and this combination is still more efficient than:

Some primary energy source -> electricity -> Make hydrogen -> transport/pump hydrogen safely into cars -> run hydrogen powered vehicle

The energy needs to produce hydrogen brings down the efficiency a lot. If we make "green hydrogen" using solar or wind, we are then leaving on fossil fuel use for longer on the grid. It is better to replace fossil fuel use with green power than use it to make hydrogen for most of use cases. It may have niche use cases where batteries don't make sense due to their low energy density.

[volkman10]

Indian Oil makes a big push for hydrogen fuel cell EVs.

IOCL to roll out 50 hydrogen buses from its Haryana and Gujarat refineries
Oil major to subsidise hydrogen prices, to begin with
Indian Oil looking to partner with auto companies for hydrogen FCEV projects

Link

[volkman10]

Govt looking for prospects about green hydrogen as potential transport fuel: Minister

government is looking for prospects about green hydrogen as a potential transport fuel, and added that whatever concessions it is offering for electric vehicles can be offered to green hydrogen also

India should focus on hydrogen fuel cell electric vehicle technology exclusively for heavy long-distance trucks, buses, marine and aviation applications.

Link

[reppy]

Originally Posted by puntOOs

The energy needs to produce hydrogen brings down the efficiency a lot.

And how does that compare to the energy needed (and the pollution caused) to produce a solar panel?

Last I checked, solar panels are highly energy intensive to manufacture (they need more energy to manufacture than the energy they will produce over their lifetime!)

Edit: I heard this from the horse's mouth. I have visited a prominent solar panel manufacturer's factory and met the plant head there.

[Steelneo]

True. and that could be in near future. There is plenty of research going on in hydrogen fuel especially to make it more efficient and safe. Its also required eliminate the monopoly of few country in Lithium battery production.

[SKC-auto]

Originally Posted by reppy

Last I checked, solar panels are highly energy intensive to manufacture (they need more energy to manufacture than the energy they will produce over their lifetime!).

Without any sources we can prove it's wrong, let's take a 250W panel which costs 10,000₹.

This panel with even 20years lifetime, will generate 1kwh(per day)*365*20years= 7300kwh. The 7300kwh with even 4₹ costs 29,200₹, so the factory loses 19,200₹ (leaving material costs) for selling a small 250W panel. Also if a factory makes 1000 panels every day they may require 7.3gwh which is equal to connecting 5-7 power plants to just one factory.

My internet search says payback (cost) of less than 4 years.
https://solarcraft.com/solar-energy-myths-facts/

[reppy]

Originally Posted by SKC-auto

Without any sources we can prove it's wrong, let's take a 250W panel which costs 10,000₹.

This panel with even 20years lifetime, will generate 1kwh(per day)*365*20years= 7300kwh. The 7300kwh with even 4₹ costs 29,200₹, so the factory loses 19,200₹ (leaving material costs) for selling a small 250W panel. Also if a factory makes 1000 panels every day they may require 7.3gwh which is equal to connecting 5-7 power plants to just one factory.

My internet search says payback (cost) of less than 4 years.
https://solarcraft.com/solar-energy-myths-facts/

I'm not talking about payback. I'm talking about energy needed to produce a panel starting from the wafer foundry is more than what the panel generates - and the energy needed to produce the panel may not be 'clean'.

So the total energy and pollution load on the environment for solar vs hydrogen needs to be investigated.

Hydrogen might be the long term answer that we need.

[Geta]

Hydrogen is not the future. Hydrogen is the past. I doubt we have so much of hydrogen in the atmosphere to fuel our cars.

At 0.00005% of the atmosphere, most of Hydrogen in this planet has already been oxidised into water.

If we assume that atmosphere is thick only in the first 6 kilometres above the earth's crust, we just have a 3 millimetres thick layer (of the 6 kilometres of atmosphere) of Hydrogen to surround this world (in comparison to 2.6 kilometres (2,600,000 millimetres) of water to surround the world, and water is denser than hydrogen gas by about 12000 times). That shows a phenomenal amount of hydrogen in the planet has already been oxidised, releasing its energy, over zillions of years. Reversing the oxidation and generating hydrogen from water will need more energy than what the resulting Hydrogen gas can produce even assuming 100% efficiency.....and.....where are we planning to get that energy from? Fossil fuels?

[SKC-auto]

Originally Posted by reppy

I'm not talking about payback. I'm talking about energy needed to produce a panel starting from the wafer foundry is more than what the panel generates - and the energy needed to produce the panel may not be 'clean'.

So the total energy and pollution load on the environment for solar vs hydrogen needs to be investigated.

Hydrogen might be the long term answer that we need.

I just showed you how we do not need 7300kwh energy to make a single solar panel, the cost will be so high they cannot sell for 10000₹.

And how is the hydrogen made? it's made from the same dirty grid, if you want renewable energy you need to manufacture, at the last stage (say in 2050) all the solar panels will be made with 100% renewable energy.

[JKBKS]

Originally Posted by volkman10

The confused government now promotes Hydrogen as an alternate fuel.

I think this is not confusion but part of a greater game of geo-strategy. With China having taken the lead in lithium-ion battery technology and controlling the most of the lithium supplies globally, West have but no option but to pivot to something else. And Hydrogen is the best alternative now. Incidentally Toyota happens to be a global leader in this as well. So let's see which technology is the eventual winner...