[amitk26]

Originally Posted by amvj

David Freiburger and Mike Finnegan (Roadkill hosts) used to describe how the bio fuel react the fuel lines and other parts of the car. Especially the California petrol. Biofuels are very corrosive and it is even worst for the stationary cars. In other words, these fuel corrode the fuel pipe, rot the rubber lines and engine get more gunk than normal petrol. It is better not to go for these unless your car is specifically designed to take it.

Biofuel is a very broad terms what you mix in Petrol is Ethyl alcohol and it can react with some plastics though all petrol in India is 10% blended now and was 5% blended for last decade or so and we have not observed any corrosion with this in any cars.
So technically all of us in India have already tried some form of biofuel.
Since almost only heavy vehicles use Diesel in USA I suspect what you have described must be alcohol as bio-fuel.


What is being talked here is esterification of fatty acids in vegetable oil using alcohol to make Diesel this is not much different then petroleum based diesel. There is no sulpher in this bio-diesel thus more suitable for Euro 6. At current price levels of Diesel and vegitable oil seems bio-diesel is attractive around 4 years back edible oil prices were sky-rocketing and Diesel was cheaper so there were no takers for bio-diesel.

[StarrySky]

I am suspicious of the claims that this diesel can be used in any vehicle. It is better to check if the fuel has been approved by the car manufacturers. My Octavia, for eg:, has a sticker on the fuel cap saying "Do not use biodiesel".

[shashanka]

I wonder what happened to the buzz surrounding jatropha a few years ago. Mercedes had gone to the trouble of equipping a fleet of C-class sedans with equipment for using diesel extracted from jatropha seeds, and sending them on a Kashmir to Kanyakumari tour to test the viability of this bio-diesel. One of the issues highlighted was the hardiness and suitability of the jatropha plant - which seems to grow & thrive in semi-arid regions without large-scale, elaborate irrigation requirements. Large areas of north India (Rajasthan, Gujarat, UP among other places) were highlighted during the campaign. Also the ratio of oil extracted from the seed was high compared to other oil seeds.

I was among the handful of eager beavers who almost plonked some of my hard-earned on a small-scale extraction plant! I changed my mind after a visit to Pantnagar University in Uttaranchal, where a pilot project (for jatropha diesel) was in operation. The scientists there advised a little caution before I took the plunge - and to wait a while till the govt's policy became clearer.

Originally Posted by StarrySky

I am suspicious of the claims that this diesel can be used in any vehicle. It is better to check if the fuel has been approved by the car manufacturers. My Octavia, for eg:, has a sticker on the fuel cap saying "Do not use biodiesel".

The advice is not misplaced. Jatropha diesel was found to be a mild solvent for plastics & rubbers. Mercedes (mentioned in my earlier post) had equipped their cars with plastic & rubber hoses & other vulnerable bits, which were resistant to this jatropha extracted diesel, before their trial run.

[Tgo]

Originally Posted by Shreyans_Jain

The fact that it is cheaper than diesel and comes under GST makes it immensely attractive for use in gensets by industry, hospitals, housing societies and shopping malls.

If you look at the retail outlets on their website, you'll find they are not present in cities or national highways. Even in case of state highways they are at least a km or two off in most cases. What does that help with? It seems like they don't want to cater to consumers but rather to businesses/agricultural use.

[carmayogi]

Originally Posted by Flyer

They claim 4 times lower sulphur emissions than lowest sulphur diesel. The 25% increase is claimed in terms of faster combustion which leads to smoother power delivery with compartively less throttle, but not a direct increase in horsepower. Posting some screenshots from their website which explains the same.

This makes much more sense than the article that said 25% increase in horsepower and torque. Three cheers if this diesel is more responsive and better for the environment.

[S2!!!]

Having tested Indizel, I can confirm that while diesel clatter definitely reduces, but performance and efficiency aren't as good as regular diesel.



Source

[AdiSolEn]

Originally Posted by S2!!!

Having tested Indizel, I can confirm that while diesel clatter definitely reduces, but performance and efficiency aren't as good as regular diesel.

Attachment 1770774

Source

This drop in fuel efficiency is too high (32% for Octavia)! Is it only specific for some cars because the drop in efficiency for Tigor is more manageable Also interesting will be if this behavior is displayed by all VAG cars!

Also the acceleration seems to be suffering? Will this be due to different combustion characteristics for Indizel/any biodiesel?Or will this issue be non-existent in engines designed for use with biofuels?

[Flyer]

Do not try this at home!

Check out this guy using used vegetable oil in his old Skoda Octavia Diesel.

Miles

[S2!!!]

Originally Posted by AdiSolEn

Also the acceleration seems to be suffering? Will this be due to different combustion characteristics for Indizel/any biodiesel?Or will this issue be non-existent in engines designed for use with biofuels?

Right from the moment you drive off, the car filled with Indizel starts feeling a bit starved for power. On speaking to someone who has closely worked with biodiesels, he revealed that although the cetane rating is high, there are certain impurities present in biodiesel because of which combustion isn't as much as regular diesel, which subsequently hampers performance.

I'm not in a position of comment on the behavior of this fuel with other cars, but I can tell you that the Tigor's Eco mode and relatively smaller sized 1.0-litre engine resulted in a lower variance in comparison to the Rapid's larger 1.5-litre motor (and no driving modes to blunt the performance).

[simplyself]

While the difference in acceleration and fuel efficiency figures for Tigor are minor vis-a-vis regular diesel, main concern is the effect it would have on the car's engine.

While claimed reduction in the pollution is welcome, is there any authentic verification on this front.

Also, there is no word from any vehicle manufacturer or any concerned government agency about this Indizel even after the company took out full front page advertisements.

By the way, what is the price of the Indizel?

[S2!!!]

Originally Posted by simplyself

By the way, what is the price of the Indizel?

I believe prices are at par with regular diesel and fluctuate similarly. The opening post confirms the same too. The only real benefit of using Indizel is the GST rebate for registered users/businesses.

[shashanka]

Originally Posted by S2!!!

Right from the moment you drive off, the car filled with Indizel starts feeling a bit starved for power. On speaking to someone who has closely worked with biodiesels, he revealed that although the cetane rating is high, there are certain impurities present in biodiesel because of which combustion isn't as much as regular diesel, which subsequently hampers performance.

I'm not in a position of comment on the behavior of this fuel with other cars, but I can tell you that the Tigor's Eco mode and relatively smaller sized 1.0-litre engine resulted in a lower variance in comparison to the Rapid's larger 1.5-litre motor (and no driving modes to blunt the performance).

This seems a bit surprising. I remember that at the time of the Mercedes - Jatropha trials, reading in one of the mags (yes, I still subscribed at the time!) the Mercedes spokesman commenting that because of the superior combustion characteristics, the jatropha bio-diesel performance was on par with fossil diesel. The only observation he had was the aroma from the exhaust - which he said was just like cheese popcorn!

The negative side-effect was on the rubbers/plastics of the fuel system, which apparently would dissolve slowly over time. Thus Mercedes had taken precautionary steps and used material in the car's plumbing which was resistant to jatropha diesel's solvent properties. Apparently the fuel was still experimental and required further down-stream treatment & processing.

[varunsangal]

Just read this article online. Not sure if the news is GST compliance or the availability of Bio-diesel.

Any views on filling bio-diesel on top of regular diesel. Would there be any potential issues?

[Turrrb0]

Originally Posted by Flyer

Do not try this at home!

Check out this guy using used vegetable oil in his old Skoda Octavia Diesel.

I remember watching this, IIRC this vegetable oil "hack" is only suitable to be used in older diesels. In the case of the video, that Skoda has the older pump injection (Pumpe Duse) engine.
Now, I don't remember if he mentions this point in the video. But it is definitely not recommended to use vegetable oil in newer common-rail systems.

Originally Posted by S2!!!

Having tested Indizel, I can confirm that while diesel clatter definitely reduces, but performance and efficiency aren't as good as regular diesel.

And regarding the difference in performance and efficiency, there are always trade-offs. Greener/more eco-friendly and cheaper would mean less power/efficiency maybe?

[alpha1]

1) First of all, there may be a lot of well-funded FUD spread by the oil companies against the bio-fuel technology - because of obvious reasons


2) Second, my question to Indizel would be: which technology are they using to make the biodiesel?

If it is a local jugaad then please beware, on the other hand if it is a licensed technology from a global company of tremendous proven repute in Oil/Petroleum domain (e.g. https://www.uop.com/processing-solut...sel/#ecofining OR https://www.axens.net/product/proces...008/vegan.html) then we can start considering it.

So from the UOP's website there are TWO different things: one is biodiesel (fatty acid methyl ester = FAME) made from open technology and other is green-diesel made from licensed technology.

Limitations of FAME (usual bio-diesel):
Corrosion concerns: FAME cannot readily use the existing pipeline distribution network due to corrosion, contamination and metallurgy concerns. As a result, fuel has to move via rail or truck – routes that are more costly and less energy efficient than pipeline distribution.

High density: FAME density is higher than most diesel specifications allow. This means that for each FAME molecule added to the diesel pool, a lighter molecule needs to be removed. This shrinks the overall diesel pool.

Low blend limits: Due to stability and decomposition issues, many car manufacturers have concluded that FAME should be limited to 5-7 vol% of diesel. If this limit is exceeded, many engine manufacturers will void their warranties.

Whereas the claim (and these guys usually have a pilot plant as well as few real production sites so very low chances of bluffs) is that green-diesel is exactly same as the usual petroleum diesel distillate.

However, knowing process technology licensors like UOP & Axens - it comes with a huge capital cost and usually large business groups (like present oil companies) only might be able to afford.


3) So my third question would be who is funding Indizel?