[Iyencar]

The powers that be have changed their minds (again?) and are now all for subsidizing hybrids.

Source


Some salient points:

1. The department of heavy industries has asked the expenditure finance committee (EFC) for a subsidy of ₹13 crore to promote hybrid cars, indicating a shift from the government’s earlier refusal to offer subsidies on such vehicles
2. Incentives sought for potential buyers of 10,000 hybrid cars fitted with lithium-ion batteries of 0.5-2 kilowatt hour (kWh)
3. The move reported to be the result of intense lobbying by Toyota, Maruti, and Honda (hardly a coincidence that these cos are the most well poised to bring in hybrids), while Indian cos like Tata and M&M are supporting transitioning directly to all electric vehicles
4. The aforementioned EFC had proposed 5k crore subsidies in September which was rejected by the PMO which wanted to incentivize local manufacturing of Li-ion batteries instead. Does this mean that the current proposal will also be stricken down?
5. As per this GoI notification, FAME has been extended till 31st March 2019.

Personally, I am all for hybrids as I think they make an excellent stopgap before the inevitable transition to electric and associated challenges involved with logistics or cost play themselves out. What I am against is this seemingly constant back and forth. IMHO, the government should pick a stand and stick to it. These sort of U-turns do not inspire confidence for the manufacturers or the customers.

[Turbanator]

Originally Posted by Iyencar

The powers that be have changed their minds (again?) and are now all for subsidizing hybrids.

No one needs subsidies, a simple reduction in GST/ Road Tax on Hybrids will be enough to get numbers. If they reduce the GST on Hybrids to half and waive off the road tax, I can foresee a wait list on most Lexus models.

[M00M]

Originally Posted by Turbanator

No one needs subsidies, a simple reduction in GST/ Road Tax on Hybrids will be enough to get numbers. If they reduce the GST on Hybrids to half and waive off the road tax, I can foresee a wait list on most Lexus models.

Completely agree. Also it will provide the much needed boost to these manufacturers and others to bring more hybrid models to India quickly.

I think the 12% bracket is the proper bracket for hybrid cars as well on GST and electric should also be 12%.

[giri1.8]

Originally Posted by Turbanator

No one needs subsidies, a simple reduction in GST/ Road Tax on Hybrids will be enough to get numbers. If they reduce the GST on Hybrids to half and waive off the road tax, I can foresee a wait list on most Lexus models.

Yes, with such a HUGE taxation on motor vehicles, subsidy doesn't seem like the right way, it is like taking a huge sum of money from us, then returning a small portion of it, making it look like it was from someone else's pocket.

I am glad that there is such proposals still going on, for cities like Chennai, Hybrid seems the fastest way possible to go the electric way, full blown EV might not perform efficiently in harsh conditions (heat, dust, humidity and floods).

[aargee]

No surprise here!! I always see what the leader does; in here - MSIL. They were going more than full throttle with that 1.3 MJD hybrid engine with almost all their models.

It makes a practical choice until the ownership of an electric car becomes practical in this country. That way manufacturers & customers don't have to undergo hardship

[HKap]

The government is forced to protect the interests of MSIL. It is after all the largest domestic car maker that possibly provides the most direct and indirect jobs in the auto sector. I hope good sense prevails and we use the hybrid technology to cut our fuel bill. I don't see why hybrids cannot replace the super polluting diesel cars. Diesels and Hybrids should have the same price premium over their respective petrol powered siblings. Hybrids will provide similar fuel economy and with the EV only mode, possibly go one better. Toyota just announced the Hybrid Corolla. I hope they bring the Hybrid Corolla to India.

[GTO]

I agree that hybrids should be heavily subsidized. As I've said a zillion times before, hybrid technology is ready, can be rolled out in months and will improve the fuel efficiency of every car by 50 - 150%. EVs may or may not be the future, but they are still a long time away from mass adoption. Hybrids however are possible TODAY.

Bring them on, car makers! Let's enjoy hatchbacks that can do 30 kmpl, sedans & crossovers with 20 kmpl and luxury cars with 15 kmpl.

My only request is to keep these subsidies for proper hybrids only, and not the lame SHVS ones.

Originally Posted by HKap

The government is forced to protect the interests of MSIL.

That's hardly the case. The government has always put up a hard stance - almost step-motherly - toward the auto industry, 50% of which is Maruti's. If Maruti had any special relationships with the government, cars wouldn't be so heavily taxed, 10 to 15 year old cars wouldn't be banned in Delhi NCR and new safety + emission norms wouldn't be coming up. India's auto industry is as much about Maruti as the others combined.

[nikipedia87]

Originally Posted by GTO

My only request is to keep these subsidies for proper hybrids only, and not the lame SHVS ones.

For this, hopefully there will be a clear regulation as to what constitutes a hybrid and what doesn't. Otherwise, we will have a string of SHVS-like pseudo hybrid cars flooding the market just to take advantage of any such subsidies being provided.

[pavi]

I have been hearing news recently about Reliance lapping up for a massive expansion of their fuel outlets across India. That's makes me thinking 'Will the government again change its visions'. It is so funny to realize that this is the first government which is having so many (ever changing) visions. Yes, you guessed it right. Pun very much intended.

Again for those you are suggesting to reduce GST/Road tax, you need to understand the implementation of your suggestion will make India a Third World Country again. You are just amazing, you guessed it right again .

[tbppjpr]

Fundamental question - what is the definition of 'hybrid' here?

Do the 'hybrids' like Ciaz and Scorpio fall in this category?
If so then the motive behind the decision is very much clear.

Originally Posted by GTO

My only request is to keep these subsidies for proper hybrids only, and not the lame SHVS ones.

Originally Posted by Iyencar

[*]The move reported to be the result of intense lobbying by Toyota, Maruti, and Honda (hardly a coincidence that these cos are the most well poised to bring in hybrids),

[veedub89]

Originally Posted by tbppjpr

Fundamental question - what is the definition of 'hybrid' here?

Do the 'hybrids' like Ciaz and Scorpio fall in this category?
If so then the motive behind the decision is very much clear.

The Ciaz and the Scorpio are not hybrids at all. Just like the DurAlloy is not an alloy wheel at all. Refer the discussion on another thread.

A true hybrid is which can use both electricity and fossil fuel derived energy to drive the vehicle. So the engine and the battery are able to move the car, either together or when required on their own as well. That's the definition of a true hybrid.

In the case of the Ciaz, Scorpio etc. the term they use to describe the car is "mild-hybrid". This is all marketing jazz. What these cars have is an auto-start-stop feature which cuts of the engine when the car is stationary. This saves some fuel, in certain situations.

[swissknife]

How many of the current "hybrids" have an auxillary power source/drive apart from fossil fuel? Has energy regeneration from braking been worked on, to bring them to mainstream cars? Has renewable sources of energy been harnessed for vehicles? Without these, they are hardly hybrids. At best, they see fossil fuel efficient vehicles.

[SJM1214]

This move looks like the result of an old request from Automobile industry leaders for Clear and Stable Policy from Indian Government.

Some Valid points raised by Automobile experts...

"Technologies are big-ticket investments for original equipment manufacturer (OEMs) and auto component manufacturers," he said. A short-term, medium-term and long-term policy road map will be useful to plan capacities and align capital investments, Ayukawa added. Stressing on the need for a well-defined roadmap, he said, "A clear and stable policy framework for the new technologies will give confidence to the principal investors in OEMs and component manufacturers."

On automotive technologies of future, Ayukawa said, "Imperatives for India are different; hence, to meet the energy security goals, India may need a technology neutral approach. "Let us keep all options open -- electric vehicles (EVs), hybrids, CNG, methanol and ethanol."

The next phase of mobility will bring in several new technologies like EVs, hybrid electric vehicles and connected cars, he added. Seeking support from the government for the development of new technologies, he said, "Adoption of any new technology needs adequate infrastructure to take off and attain critical mass."

News source.

Team-BHP Thread. (The auto industry asks for a clear & stable policy from the Indian Government)

[bhavik.1991]

Originally Posted by Turbanator

No one needs subsidies, a simple reduction in GST/ Road Tax on Hybrids will be enough to get numbers. If they reduce the GST on Hybrids to half and waive off the road tax, I can foresee a wait list on most Lexus models.

Central Govt. will have to fight number of state governments if they reduce GST (50% goes to state govt. AFAIK). Road tax is charged by state govt as well. I think it's a good move to subsidize hybrids instead of wasting time to convince number of stakeholders of different state govt.

[Turbanator]

Originally Posted by bhavik.1991

Central Govt. will have to fight number of state governments if they reduce GST (50% goes to state govt. AFAIK). Road tax is charged by state govt as well. I think it's a good move to subsidize hybrids instead of wasting time to convince number of stakeholders of different state govt.

Correct, but what's the harm in making CGST portion Zero? and the central goverment runs majority of states so how difficult will it be to convince the states.

Problem is most politicians comes with fancy ideas, like some pods from DhaulaKuan to Manesar or Hyperloops between Pune to Mumbai.

Regarding the distingution between proper hybrids and the namesake, a simple condition - Vehicle must run for X Km/ Y Hours on the battery will keep fakes away.

In either case - subsidisy or reduction in taxes, it will be good for everyone.