[drsnt]

There is no match for a perfect repair, but then how many garages even do it? I would rather dispose a badly damaged vehicle then risk my or family life by traveling in it.
As mentioned accident happen in mysterious ways. I would any day be in a factory fresh safe car then a repaired one.
With so many near and dear ones losing their lives in accidents in past 2-3 years. It's a huge risk for me to invest in salvaged repaired car when I can get a 5* crash rated vehicle under 20L with 7 airbags.

[yogiraj]

Interesting thread indeed. To some extent I agree it may be possible to bring the car back to life by careful repair and there may well be a SOP available from OEMs. However, as someone already pointed out, how do we ensure we take care of the damage that has happened and is not visible?
Basically, is there a way to decide if the car is worth working upon based on some technical audits?
When a car undergoes a crash, there will be portions of it that physically do not show any damage but actually develop cracks.
I come from Automotive transmission background, so let me give you an example from my field.
Ideally, if any gear in the Gearbox breaks, complete gearbox should be replaced as we don't know when it failed, what amount of stresses it generated in the whole gearbox, how many times it ran over in broken state etc. At times, during development phases, technics like Magnetic Particle Inspection or Dye Penetrant Tests are used to check for micro cracks invisible to naked eyes and a call is taken if the same gearbox can be used. However this still doesn't cover cracks that get developed internally inside the components. The liabilities are lot less during development phase though and customer is not involved. Hence it still works.
But doing that for a crashed vehicle, I do not feel confident and comfortable, unless we have a sound technical qualification procedure to take decisions on whether to repair it or not.

Thanks,

Yogiraj.

[kaholster]

Dear admin one small request ,kindly change the name of the thread to "cheap luxury write off" to "bargained luxury" or "luxury at risk" or anything else which avoids the word "cheap". I have my own reservations against this word. even minute parts of the vehicle i have mingled with during these years are definitely not cheap .During these projects i have spent 30 plus lakhs for procurement of parts only ( for 5 vehicles mainly ) excluding cost of salvaged vehicles ,commissions and cost of foreign trips to bring in parts. Any thing except cheap would be highly appreciated just to honour the brands like rolls royace ,bentley, porsche, land cruisers etc which also land up as salvage vehicle and salvage cost starts from 50 lakhs something.

soon i Intend to post something mentioning ways and means to restore the SRS /Airbag system, which will cover following things

1) things/ places to look in used cars and to find if dealer is trying to cheat you by placing blank Airbag shell or if they have placed a simple resistor to manipulate the scanning results.
2) If your airbags have come out and the car is not that badly damaged( and for some reason like age of car or some glitch insurance is invalidated) .how to restore airbags cost effectively and in original condition.places to procure the goods from and procedure and laws relating to airbags.
3) Airbag module resetting. ( can you do that at home with cheap devices like car prog .since different modules use different setups and in module where MPU's are installed for crash memory storage rather than simple EEPROM chips.)
4) takata airbag problem which lead to world wide replacement of airbags in top big brands
5) where to be cautious when repairing a torn dash board and seat covers with airbags?
6) Lack of expert companies like "airbag team" UK (a family set up business) in India ( since their shipment cost is twice the cost of airbag kit. technical glitches and ways to bypass them.

Few BHPians have shown concern about the structural integrity of salvaged vehicles for which i wouldn't want to argue as it is said " ek ne kahi doosre ne maani ,NANAK kahe dono bramh gyani". But as soon as a lawyer's brains kicks in then neither your nor mine opinion would count/matter in this case( regarding strength of different welding specially spot/electric wave welding with regards to different metals).firstly I would only count on the opinion of any person expert of metallurgy. secondly there is a clear misconception that only accidental cars are salvaged. Kindly do share your thoughts on flooded vehicles, keeping in mind the height of water ingress eg. 1ft, 2ft and so on or complete submerging. Would you like to say that safety of flooded cars would stand on a higher pedestal when repaired since they don't have any body damage. Only after that i will share my experience with one range rover and other few issue .And also share your views on commercials cars which are sold by Five star hotels (Five years after the date of import) since they are also maintained by ASS and generally non accidental.(i can tell a lot about these too)

One friend has also shared views on investment in new cars against these zilch salvages. God has made each one of us differently, we think differently, some people invest in stock market , other indulge in betting while there are other having strong inclination towards opposite gender, its all a matter of choice. I have no words enough to describe the feeling of driving high bhp cars but the main question is that if wright brothers hadn't risked their lives and broken their own bones in test flight today we wouldn't have been able to enjoy these commercial flights. what they really counted on was "faith" in what they were building similarly i have complete faith in what i build with my hands. It is beyond description what you feel when despite coming from a white collar back ground you single handedly tear up the entire BMW's N57 and after few nights of hard work again that 6 cylinder engine is happily churning out 250 BHP on road.

By this article at no point of time i am trying to justify purchase of these salvaged cars but my whole article was intended to provide info and share experience with any one who might like to fiddle with these cars in near future. If i can do it with nearly no technical training and working in completely different field then any one else who has enthusiasm to learn things can also do it. I pray to god that my words may show light to the people who would like to go on this path.I joined the forum in 2008 and till date i have not posted even a single comment simply because i never say what i have not witnesses my self.

Being a third generation lawyer i have faced a lot of criticism from family and friends and have also been part of jokes but the only thing that kept me going is the faith that if sombody else can then even i can do it.My whole write up is only intended for those few who have faith in them selves and who wish to enter into such risky ventures. I can not assure you of profits but one thing i can vouch for it that the journey would surely be enjoyable. Important question here would be to ask the ways of how can this knowledge be used to protect the innocent guys from being cheated while buying a used cars and how not to enter a foolish investment.

One friends sentiments have been hurt because of posting of baleno's pics and i apologize for the same but it is an open forum and the knowledge i have gained after going through hundreds of damaged (body and mechanicals) cars might come to somebody's rescue one day in order to take a wise decision. Is there a seperate thread /poll on the structural safety of vehicle, if there is then ill post more pics of polo, baleno , ,verna and other indian cars involved in toppling accidents which may make people better informed.

One friend who has work experience in auto transmissions has shed some light on problems that might crop up which i really appreciate. I would love to hear your experiences regarding transmission rebuilds. I might also seek your help some day.Transmissions which i have experienced/seen in these years are Audi's CVT installed in audi A6 B6 2.7 Tdi , Audi's DSG installed on 2.0 Tdi , BMW's ZF 8HP and same ZF 8 on jaguar.
There is a small personal incident i would like to share here which might make sense later on in relation to the article.
My maternal grandfather was a war veteran, working in EME, Indian Army. He was always kept silent on topic of war neither he told us any stories about his achievements or any other episode but it is only after his death we came to know through guys he trained that he was an expert of tank and heavy vehicle repairs and all his anecdotes were later on revealed. Because of facing death several times he had turned inwards / on meditative side and when i was just 4 he taught me to listen to machines. as in his words ," these parts have the ability to talk only if you can hear". He was repairing an agricultural utility machine and by banging on several parts of machine he taught us how different notes are produced then he also banged on broken aluminium housing and showed the difference of sound notes. 20 years later i came to know that it was also used to be taught to mechanics abroad by the name of ACOUSTIC RESONANCE TESTING. Although the salvaged cars are to be brought from through out India and due to paucity of time it is impossible travel all the way along but in case i get an opportunity i do test the external housing in work shops against the sounds of other similar vehicles.

secondly with respect to metal shavings in the transmission oil normal shaving are always expected in high mileage transmissions and due to this only magnets are pre provided in transmission oil pan. Failure of gears or broken gear i have seen in hyundai and maruti(quality problem) and once in a skoda laura but reasons for that were completely different i.e. faulty transmission cooler which had mixed the ATF with coolant. But i would say the real culprit was the driver. I remember words of Niki Lauda having a good A** to detect /feel the problem with the car. since i have not seen any other gears broken due to accidental shock waves i would really love to seek your knowledge on this particular aspect.

Another thing i have in my mind is that auto transmission in high end cars (above A4 ) is placed at such a location that it is nearly impossible to hit the transmission housing directly .it being minimum 1 1/2 feet away from outer end at any given direction.Plus both the engine and the trans are placed on a mounting which really act as shock absorbers in cases of damage. If a car is totaled out from front then the impact will first touch the engine block and only then it will reach the transmission. The cast aluminium has a property of breaking/ developing a crack rather than bending like iron or steel inthose cases a leak can be detected using a UV die or other methods and again a welding expert can do the magic.In case if every thing fails while you are playing with a 20 plus lakh investment,then a lakh or two for swapping the trans wont matter right.

And lastly with all due respect to guys who earn their lively hood through the profession of repairing cars. I have my reservations against the usage of word "Mechanic". i somehow dislike it since child hood an apart from cars i also indulge in other creative arts such as drawing, painting, wood work sometimes and other machine any form it may be in. I am happy and content with my choice of legal profession which is my first priority.These cars and stuff i only touch on holidays or at nights on days when court work is on lighter side. In Next post ill try to post few more pictures.

[mashmash]

Wow, this is a brilliant thread. I had absolutely no idea there were such enthusiasts in India too. I have only recently developed an interest in this and have been following a couple of channels on Youtube who carry out such repairs and rebuilds. Fascinated by them. Do post more of your projects and how you overcame the challenges.

Some of the channels I have been following for a couple of months now

1. goonzquad

2. Alex Rebuilds

3. B is for Build


MaSh

[DBeast]

This thread has really opened the Pandora box. I have been after this type of information for quite a long time, when I heard and saw a car which was totaled by the insurance company, but found out that it was repaired by the local garage and sold to a buyer. I am pretty sure the parts which (airbags etc.) either are not installed or have been procured illegally (the selling price of the car was way low).


Looking forward to more info on this.

[BowMan]

As far as I can see the repair work is similar in standards to what one can see in any roadside workshop that deal in salvaged cars. Not sure what the fuss is all about?

Even with these pictures it is clear that the center member is not properly aligned?



The apron and hood edged do not line up.





We have inconsistent panel gaps.





To someone who has even mediocre experience with used cars it will be obvious the Jaguar has had a front end collision and has seen extensive bodywork.

[jetsetgo08]

First of all, the efforts that are gone into salvaging luxury cars is truly commendable irrespective of the perfection of the rebuild. This might trigger some inspiration into a few technically inclined fellow members.

I myself was considering the case of rebuilding a salvaged Skoda Superb/VW Jetta at a trusted FNG, but had to bail out due the lack of technical know how and the contacts to source the spares cheaply. May be a distant dream, but it surely is worth a shot if one can rebuild even newer D-segment cars under a very tight budget (read 5-6L).

Originally Posted by BowMan

As far as I can see the repair work is similar in standards to what one can see in any roadside workshop that deal in salvaged cars. Not sure what the fuss is all about?

Not really a fuss. But, it is the efforts that are being appreciated. Despite the visual giveaways, one could keep the car if he is confident in the way it drives just as the OP mentioned, since a lot of personal effort & time is spent in the repair process.

[majumon]

That is a very interesting subject you have so diligently and passionately described, it has a been a gripping write up, please share more of your experiences.

[Amartya]

Originally Posted by kaholster

Greetings to everyone, especially the Gurus on this website. Since this is my first post/reply, I must admit I have learnt a lot from this website. As a general intro, I am a practicing lawyer in Delhi and an automotive enthusiast. I am into this insurance / salvage repair for past 10 years as a hobby (for which my dad scolds me a lot ).
...
I have spent numerous nights at my friend's garage entangled in all sorts of projects.....

Many many thanks for sharing this, this made for a great read.

For people like me who find the process of automotive restoration/repair almost meditative, Arthur Tussik's channel on Youtube is a must watch (most of you probably already know of this, but just in case it slipped through Youtube's recommendation algorithms).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esE8jut8Vvk

[kaholster]

Originally Posted by BowMan

As far as I can see the repair work is similar in standards to what one can see in any roadside workshop that deal in salvaged cars. Not sure what the fuss is all about?

Even with these pictures it is clear that the center member is not properly aligned?

The apron and hood edged do not line up.

We have inconsistent panel gaps.

To someone who has even mediocre experience with used cars it will be obvious the Jaguar has had a front end collision and has seen extensive bodywork.

Dear Sir i accept i don't even have mediocre experience and the quality of paint job and finish is also poor. but ultimately it is not my profession aur satya kabhi nahi chupta. truth reveals itself... there is no way one can hide out the fact of car being involved in accident .one day or another car will tell the truth. i posted this thread only to share the experiences: i don't claim supremacy or perfection in doing the job.

but I have some explanation for fit and finish.

1) Lack of your knowledge regarding alignment of center member.
Both members are in curvature with broad margin at front & narrow margin at rear .For this i had personally gone to a friends garage just to measure and cut out a cardboard design to match both left and right curves . plus the four bolts of sub frame chassis will fit only when the alignment is perfect. as for proof of curve please see the images of workshop manual as attached. you expect me to straighten them out.


2) For inconsistent gap panels

You have encircled points in images where the bonnet is not even primered and was merely kept for measurements or with out nuts being secured.

3) Jaguar has lots of curves in bonnet and other panel edges due to which panel gaps can not be ad-measured merely by looking from one direction or from uni-directional pic.

i use a gap wedge tool for that.

4) Gaps in bumper are due to fitment of second hand bumper

I purchased for 8k rs which i guess must have been discarded by JLR due to some external damage. plus the headlight are original one which the car came with but i have resoldered the broken plastic brackets which hold the headlight.these pics were taken days before vehicle came on road. p.s. headlamp washer, number plates missing. and also place your kind attention on attached pics of workshop manual regarding metal panel gaps which had been observed very keenly and were well with in range of mentioned parameters.

Lastly the gaps which you have critically mentioned will again appear in fraction of seconds even with a minor hit from front left or right. plus in Delhi parking lots people have to leave cars in neutral due to space crunch and parking attendants never bother before pushing and slamming such cars into already parked ones.

With respect of re-sale of this one . i will be last one to sell it as non accidental one. There is separate market and buyers for accidental cars who are happy to buy cars at a reduced price specially at a margin of 7-8 lakhs per unit from normal cars. Which amount i guess is more than sufficient to cure these defects provided the car is in fit mechanical driving condition.

regards.

[kaholster]

Originally Posted by DBeast

This thread has really opened the Pandora box. I have been after this type of information for quite a long time, when I heard and saw a car which was totaled by the insurance company, but found out that it was repaired by the local garage and sold to a buyer. I am pretty sure the parts which (airbags etc.) either are not installed or have been procured illegally (the selling price of the car was way low).


Looking forward to more info on this.

Sir as far as airbags are concerned they are by far the first thing to look out for in second hand cars. There are hundreds of used car buyers riding luxury vehicles at present who don't know that their car is not fitted with real airbag but just an electronic resistor giving false impression/signal to SRS module. Best part is till the time they bang it somewhere truth will be buried deep inside.

That is another major reason why i got interested in salvaged cars because i clearly knew what damage was and who/what my real enemy was.

talking of an airbag, it consists mainly of 3 parts
1) gas generator
2) cloth which inflates on discharge of gases when 12 v current is passed through it
3) plastic housing which retains the gas generator and its cloth securely.
pics are attached herewith.

It is an offence under international aviation laws to transport the SRS/airbag module in passenger airlines and even in some commercial airlines.customer has to clearly declare the goods legally in case any of the components relating to SRS is being sent as parcel internationally.
eu and other countries have strict laws relating to the same.

For junkyard junkies who go to scrapyards in Dubai and pic up random parts which fits into their check in baggage . I have just one piece of advise .bring any part but dont bring any srs related thing in passenger airlines. if you still wanna try ,then may god save you.

just as another piece of advise never ask a friend or a relative residing abroad to send you airbag with false declaration, ask the online seller to do it on his own or get it delivered by sea. because in case if the goods gets caught somewhere at international border your friend /relative might land in big legal trouble.

Airbag gas generator being explosive in nature is clearly banned for same reason as coconuts are being banned in airlines. Some airlines have also objection in transportation of SRS modules, although no explosion can happen inside it but mere mention of name SRS system does its job.
till few days back in china it was/is legal to transport SRS gas generator in commercial or even passenger airlines but the declaration has to be clearcut.

For unscruplous car dealers through out india there is absolutely no gurantee that they will refit the exact number of airbag in car as the car orignially came with.Indian legal system also talks about the principle of buyer beware.

SRS/ system has different types of airbag mainly
1) driver 2) passenger 3) curtain 4) center pillar positioned airbags 5) airbags in seats 6) knee protection airbags and 6) bonnet airbags


by far the driver ,passenger and sometimes center pillar airbags have big gas generators and others ( curtains ,seat belt , knee and seats) have micro or mini gas generator.

Micro and mini gas generators are also used in seat belt tensioners both buckle side and belt side.

Since vehicles fitted with these SRS system have grown drastically in recent years but there is a clear cut lack/dearth of guys dealing exclusively in restraint system in India. Either due to costs of airbags or due to lack of knowledge and interest.

Personally i have tested fresh gas generator from PTseat belts china and they actually gave pretty good results.If an exploded air bag is carefully opened up the cloth can be reused (but that depends upon the manufacturer of airbag also.

Generally i import complete kit of Air bags of cars but sometimes few UK or EU sellers don't have the complete set and one or two pieces are missing.one main thing i would like to point out is that while buying a kit from anywhere in the world do recheck that your dash board is not a repacked one, as in few dashboard there are metal plate present which people cut out to repack it.Few guys i have seen repacking it by using fewi kwick and dust other use glass wool fiber cloth with epoxy resin to make fresh base . Both the cases are extremely dangerous. Even if you have a new airbag , an old repacked dashboard will spoil the game. The chemical stones formed with combination of dust and fewi kwick and also the hard epoxy particles will be discharged into air as bomb sharpnels as soon as gas is discharged from generators and might injure someone very badly.

so first thing would be to get a fresh dashboard and then go in for airbags
One can easily find new gas generators on alibaba and other chinese websites.

pic of my old project car: one of the two BMW 5 series which was by far the most difficult project of all till date. car was dead when i bought it. engine had seized transmission was gone , coolant and oil got mixed. workshop where it was picked up from had changed the instrument cluster, Gear shifter module, and with blessings of ganesh ji a rat had blessed the wiring of the car. but finally after 3 months of hardwork 6 cylinder in line resurrected itself.

I am also attaching few pics of airbag related parts. specially Maf sensor of rhino ,sonalika being used in jaguar after little bit of mods.

due to workload i am unable to write a comprehensive article but will try to do it in near future or at the time of some other new project

[yogiraj]

Originally Posted by kaholster

Sir as far as airbags are concerned they are by far the first thing to look out for in second hand cars. There are hundreds of used car buyers riding luxury vehicles at present who don't know that their car is not fitted with real airbag but just an electronic resistor giving false impression/signal to SRS module. Best part is till the time they bang it somewhere truth will be buried deep inside.

May be a slightly off topic, but is there a way to check if the airbags are really there and in usable condition and it's not a mere resistor in place.

I am looking for used car and it will be useful to know this.

Thanks,

Yogi.

[kaholster]

Originally Posted by yogiraj

May be a slightly off topic, but is there a way to check if the airbags are really there and in usable condition and it's not a mere resistor in place.

I am looking for used car and it will be useful to know this.

Thanks,

Yogi.

there are two main methods of bypassing the SRS warning light in instrument cluster.

1) By soldering the LED of SRS warning with connection of Check Engine light physically . so it will appear work in perfect order. this type of scam can be easily caught by an OBD tool. The cheapest one that i have got is VDM 2 for android wifi version 6K Rs with 2 yrs free update. it works for SRS, Engine ,Transmission,TPMS, ABS, long short coding and what not. Plus the range of applicable cars is huge. vpecker is also a cheap and good option. but few Tata and Suzuki cars are missing in list so do check ur car before u order any tool.

2) By placing resistor. in this case only physical evaluation would help.

To beat this type of scam check the quality /grain type of dashboard texture. Familiarize your self with the car you want to buy; go to the showroom and check the grain and type of material used in that model( broadly 3 types used in dashboard. complete plastic, soft leather touch foam or complete leather wrapped.)

* In plastic types such as creta ,suzuki etc check for colour ( basically shade ) of dash and side door plastic. Both should equally fade out with age , any mismatch and you should dig deeper.

* In soft leather touch on foam like one used in BMW , Skoda laura, VW jetta above open the side /dash board cover which reveals the fuse box to see any faux leather cloth cutting /hanging, also note the screw driver marks on ac vents for removal generally people remove one or two not all even for repairs.

* In fully leather wrapped types like Jaguar JLR, Mercedes , Porsche check for raised french seams which do come up few days after pasting in repaired dashboards. A genuine french seam never raises from the general level plus the main stitch line will be a bit on lower side.
(I'll attach few pic of re pasted leather and genuine dash.

As far as driver airbag is concerned. Remove the airbag yourself if you have the OBD tool just in case the light comes up as sometimes while removal, a wire or two stretched out might trigger warning lamp or ask the person to take the vehicle to A.S.S. and get it checked there.

There are lots of aftermarket airbag covers(shell /blank are available online in China and in india too ) for dirt cheap so just by looks no one can tell if the airbag is there in driver side or not( not even ASS service advisors).

After getting the airbag out, just one look and you would be able to differentiate between a burnt or a new gas generator as in case of airbag discharge even stickers behind the airbag also get burnt.

Stuck up or slow retracting seat belts also can indicate the chances of scam. Although they become loose with age but in a newer vehicle slow windup becomes a doubtful indicator.

When you check for fuse box of left or right of dash do check for screws some times they have a special torque marks and also do not forget to check the curtain airbags sockets on A pillar.

In luxury cars, a non OEM seat cover are also one of the main symptoms of salvage vehicle may be due to flood loss effect. ( damaged leather or due to seat airbags out).

No one replaces a seat airbag or knee air bag although they come very cheap but mechanics dont bother and buyer never has enough time to dig deep. In addition, if one has replaced a seat airbag it would not work perfectly because of non usage of OEM threads at that place.

In past few years, lots of brand new cars have had troubles or issues from the day one but still guys have that mind set that only old cars can give out trouble.

Best of luck for your search, may god help you find the perfect one.