Demand for cess on diesel cars

rahul_intlad · 18th February 2007, 21:48

The Centre for Science and Environment (CSE) has demanded imposition of environment cess on diesel cars in order to discourage the use of such vehicles. It also sought incentives for public transport buses that emit less and use less energy per passenger.

The CSE has suggested discouraging diesel cars without efficiency and clean emission standards. It said the industry is pushing diesel cars in the name of fuel efficiency but they were several times more polluting then petrol cars. India's most popular small diesel car is more than 20 to 30 per cent less fuel-efficient and 50 per cent more polluting than its counterparts in Europe.

Whats your take on this guys,should diesel cars be discouraged?

Source:
The Hindu : New Delhi News : Demand for cess on diesel cars

Ps: Suggestions were made to the honourable Finance minister P. Chidambaram

theMAG · 18th February 2007, 22:07

More on their plate than they can eat? Low quality diesel should be addressed first. Then all diesel cars more than 10 years old. They'll round up 80% of all diesel polluters that way.

ravibhat · 18th February 2007, 22:16

Hey thats right theMAG, I feel samething, First Government has to address low quality Diesel and then put CESS/strict rules on Diesel Cars.

10+ years old cars/trucks which pollute too much should not be allowed into big Cities or at least in METROs. If this happens I am sure one can make environment better in India but I visualize it takes another 20 years
to see something like this happening in India.

Only 4% of politicians now in India have some sense to do social work honestly and educated as well according to me.

Ravi.

sharathjeppu · 18th February 2007, 23:39

I think the information on petrol vs. Diesel is not complete,.
As I understand from this article (ECO Travel : Petrol vs Diesel) While diesel produces more Particulate matter and NOx, Petrol cars produce a lot more CO.

Here another view point on the Petrol vs. Diesel debate with respect to environment
Diesel Car Emissions - The Truth

Cheers

1100D · 18th February 2007, 23:46

This does not make any sense, irrespective or Petrol or Diesel, there should be a standard provided by each manufacturer for each Model about the service life of its engines beyond which the vehicle owner has to prove rebuilding of the engine with a certification from the manufacturer.

There should also be a check on the compression of each vehicle for compliance with the manufacturer provided specification, rather than just analyse the exhaust gases.

However the main thing, as some people already mentioned , that there should be a check on the quality of fuel.

It makes no sense saying a particular type of fuel pollutes more, with new technology that is being taken care of in the developed world and thankfully we have with us now some of the latest technologies made available to us.

SkyWalker · 19th February 2007, 13:46

I would like to play the devils advocate here: diesel is considerably cheaper in India because its heavily subsidized. The fact is increasing diesel prices in effect drives lots of commodity prices, ticket fares and affects the less privileged people.

the Diesel cars, definitely are not the intended customers of such an artificial reduction in fuel prices. Considering that a cess could be justified. Probably it can even be used to bring back the parity in petrol and diesel prices, with govt reducing the tax on petrol and bring the price down a bit.

I completely agree to the fuel quality bit though.

directinjection · 19th February 2007, 15:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkyWalker

I would like to play the devils advocate here: diesel is considerably cheaper in India because its heavily subsidized.

No, it isn't.
Govt. subsidy on diesel was abolised way back in 1999.
Actually, petrol is grossly overpriced and so it appears as if diesel is a subsidised fuel.

The price difference is artificially created by the oil companies at the Govt.'s instance. It costs more to produce a litre of diesel at the refinery (especially the ultra low sulphur variety, now compulsory in metros) than a litre of petrol.

directinjection · 19th February 2007, 15:30

Actually both petrol and diesel are polluting. Petrol engines emit certain types of pollutants that diesel engines do not emit (or emit less) and diesel engines emit certain other types of pollutants that petrol engines do not emit (or emit less). The main problem with diesel engines is the particulate matter emissions which remain suspended in air for a long time (suspended particulate matter- SPM), a major problem in many Indian cities, especially in North-Western parts of India that are sandier and drier.

Fortunately, this problem can be taken care of by fitting particulate matter filters in the exhaust systems of vehicles and engines. These aren't yet compulsory in India and must be made so with immediate effect.

If all petrol engines were converted to diesel, the country's fuel requirement would come down by about 1/3rd. Diesel engine is inherently more fuel efficient than petrol.

Hence, diesel is preferable as a fuel after addressing its pollution problem.

GTO · 19th February 2007, 17:24

1100D has a very valid point, healthy diesel engines will be infinitely less poluting.

Instead of a cess (diesels are more expensive anyways), it would be best to work toward low sulphur diesels and high-tec cat-exhausts as standard.

mithun · 20th February 2007, 06:27

In India, 65% of the diesel is consumed by the private vehicles and newer diesel variants are getting into the road day-by-day. So there is no point in subsidising diesel cars any more.

18th February 2007, 21:48	#1
rahul_intlad Senior - BHPian Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Pune Posts: 1,579 Thanked: 4 Times	Demand for cess on diesel cars The Centre for Science and Environment (CSE) has demanded imposition of environment cess on diesel cars in order to discourage the use of such vehicles. It also sought incentives for public transport buses that emit less and use less energy per passenger. The CSE has suggested discouraging diesel cars without efficiency and clean emission standards. It said the industry is pushing diesel cars in the name of fuel efficiency but they were several times more polluting then petrol cars. India's most popular small diesel car is more than 20 to 30 per cent less fuel-efficient and 50 per cent more polluting than its counterparts in Europe. Whats your take on this guys,should diesel cars be discouraged? Source: The Hindu : New Delhi News : Demand for cess on diesel cars Ps: Suggestions were made to the honourable Finance minister P. Chidambaram
	() Thanks

18th February 2007, 22:07	#2
theMAG Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: May 2006 Location: Avon, CT Posts: 7,217 Thanked: 1,807 Times View My Garage	More on their plate than they can eat? Low quality diesel should be addressed first. Then all diesel cars more than 10 years old. They'll round up 80% of all diesel polluters that way.
	() Thanks

18th February 2007, 22:16	#3
ravibhat Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Bangalore Posts: 2,256 Thanked: 37 Times View My Garage	Hey thats right theMAG, I feel samething, First Government has to address low quality Diesel and then put CESS/strict rules on Diesel Cars. 10+ years old cars/trucks which pollute too much should not be allowed into big Cities or at least in METROs. If this happens I am sure one can make environment better in India but I visualize it takes another 20 years to see something like this happening in India. Only 4% of politicians now in India have some sense to do social work honestly and educated as well according to me. Ravi.
	() Thanks

18th February 2007, 23:39	#4
sharathjeppu BHPian Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Bangalore Posts: 159 Thanked: 4 Times	I think the information on petrol vs. Diesel is not complete,. As I understand from this article (ECO Travel : Petrol vs Diesel) While diesel produces more Particulate matter and NOx, Petrol cars produce a lot more CO. Here another view point on the Petrol vs. Diesel debate with respect to environment Diesel Car Emissions - The Truth Cheers
	() Thanks

18th February 2007, 23:46	#5
1100D Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Calcutta Posts: 4,390 Thanked: 4,096 Times View My Garage	This does not make any sense, irrespective or Petrol or Diesel, there should be a standard provided by each manufacturer for each Model about the service life of its engines beyond which the vehicle owner has to prove rebuilding of the engine with a certification from the manufacturer. There should also be a check on the compression of each vehicle for compliance with the manufacturer provided specification, rather than just analyse the exhaust gases. However the main thing, as some people already mentioned , that there should be a check on the quality of fuel. It makes no sense saying a particular type of fuel pollutes more, with new technology that is being taken care of in the developed world and thankfully we have with us now some of the latest technologies made available to us.
	() Thanks

19th February 2007, 13:46	#6
SkyWalker Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Bangalore Posts: 1,531 Thanked: 136 Times	I would like to play the devils advocate here: diesel is considerably cheaper in India because its heavily subsidized. The fact is increasing diesel prices in effect drives lots of commodity prices, ticket fares and affects the less privileged people. the Diesel cars, definitely are not the intended customers of such an artificial reduction in fuel prices. Considering that a cess could be justified. Probably it can even be used to bring back the parity in petrol and diesel prices, with govt reducing the tax on petrol and bring the price down a bit. I completely agree to the fuel quality bit though.
	() Thanks

19th February 2007, 15:30	#8
directinjection Senior - BHPian Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Faridabad/Delhi Posts: 1,705 Thanked: 785 Times	Actually both petrol and diesel are polluting. Petrol engines emit certain types of pollutants that diesel engines do not emit (or emit less) and diesel engines emit certain other types of pollutants that petrol engines do not emit (or emit less). The main problem with diesel engines is the particulate matter emissions which remain suspended in air for a long time (suspended particulate matter- SPM), a major problem in many Indian cities, especially in North-Western parts of India that are sandier and drier. Fortunately, this problem can be taken care of by fitting particulate matter filters in the exhaust systems of vehicles and engines. These aren't yet compulsory in India and must be made so with immediate effect. If all petrol engines were converted to diesel, the country's fuel requirement would come down by about 1/3rd. Diesel engine is inherently more fuel efficient than petrol. Hence, diesel is preferable as a fuel after addressing its pollution problem.
	() Thanks

19th February 2007, 17:24	#9
GTO Team-BHP Support Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Bombay Posts: 70,546 Thanked: 300,788 Times View My Garage	1100D has a very valid point, healthy diesel engines will be infinitely less poluting. Instead of a cess (diesels are more expensive anyways), it would be best to work toward low sulphur diesels and high-tec cat-exhausts as standard.
	() Thanks

20th February 2007, 06:27	#10
mithun BANNED Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Cochin Posts: 2,195 Thanked: 268 Times	In India, 65% of the diesel is consumed by the private vehicles and newer diesel variants are getting into the road day-by-day. So there is no point in subsidising diesel cars any more.
	() Thanks