[VJ05]

I'm a bit puzzled as many of us are. It's neither here or there strategy. In the last 5-6 years, I don't think Honda India has taken many right decisions and it shows in their product lineup and Sales.

In 2013 when they launched the 1.5 L Diesel engine with Amaze, they didn't launch it in Brio. Brio sales had suffered mostly for 2 reasons - lack of diesel engine and quirky looks. Another bad decision was miling the Brio platform in Mobilio and BR-V, with it's cheap interiors and quirky looks, both the cars were flop. Then they launched over-priced CBU Accord with it's hybrid engine, it was dead on arrival. In 2017 and 2018, some sanity prevailed, WRV was launched to cash in pseudo SUV / Crossover trend but they mistake they did was not to include Sunroof in top variant and launched 1.2 L petrol instead of 1.5 L. Their best decision was launching Amaze Diesel with proper AT box and it reaped rewards. Again they were back to their usual best in 2019 with Civic launch and now if the City rumour is true, I think it'll be beginning of the end of Honda brand in India. I hope to be proved wrong but I don't think they can build the product line up in the next 2-4 years which can fight against the likes of Seltos/Creta/Venue/Hector. Honda as a Brand is not as aspirational today as it was 10 years back.

[YashD]

What an interesting time!
I never in my life had imagined, Honda will launch something cheap like Brio or something utterly ridiculous like BR-V and Mobilio but the times are changing and Honda Car India is evolving but backwards.

As a lot of members has pointed out, it's a do or die situation for Honda. I for one feel, this will be the final nail to the coffin. Honda has dug it's own grave and now, I don't know if it can ever climb back the ladder. They simply don't have the right products to do that!

Moreover, if the 4th Generation City is going to become a taxi, a lot of current owners would be outright disappointed. The whole brand image "I Drive a Honda City" feel will be shattered and I'm sure, consumers will move to the next big thing, the Verna. Furthermore, it will definitely affect the sales of the 5th Generation City as well. Why ought one buy it when this too would become a cab few years later down the line!

Honda cannot compare the City with Dzire & Etios, that's a budget segment and requirements of cab drivers is extremely different than a private buyer. Moreover, people bought Dzire & Etios over looking their short comings because they were on a budget and wanted something practical! I am tired seeing Honda diminishing it's brand value in India having such capable products abroad, these guys have become outright greedy and nothing else.

Just look at Honda's history 10 years back and now! Such a drastic change in a manufacturer? The story of HCI is going in the business books, teaching the Don'ts. When all the manufacturers are moving to offering better performance engine, excellent interior package and smashing looks, Honda is pushing it's 12 years old i-vtec and 14 years old R18A to the consumers. These guy don't even have newer technologies to offer let alone a better vehicle altogether. After several Hondas, this is outright heart breaking. This is not business, it's foolishness.

They're going to kill both the City 4th generation and 5th generation with this move. Moreover, they're just going to loose it's forte as people will begin learning about City's shortcomings because of the major number of complaints coming in. I still don't have any doubts on the 1.5L engines offered by Honda, but a car is a lot more than just the engine and well the other parts are simply not upto the mark in the City unlike the previous generations.

Bye Honda! It would be tough to see you go but you're shooting yourself on the head hence you're way beyond saving.

[John316_WRC]

Let's hold our horses & try to analyse the new City in comparison to the older car.

1. SIZE - New City is 109mm(almost 11cm) longer & is 53mm(5.3cm) wider. This is a good increase in size.

2. ENGINE - New DOHC engine over the older SOHC. Better power delivery, more power & more torque (although it's a small improvement)

Clearly the car is larger, and knowing how greedy Honda is, they will charge a premium. Also, the engine being more complicated it's logically going to be more expensive.

Now, the part where they sell both generations together, I feel it just might work out for them. The older gen can cater to budget conscious/cabbies and the newer one to the premium side of the segment. To succeed, they must price the older City lower than the 2020 Verna.

Desperate times call for desperate measures. I'm staying positive & I hope for Honda, this move pays off.

[rayjaycleoful]

What would be really successful is if they continue to sell the V and V CVT models for the 4th generation at slightly lower prices. This V model is well equipped and extremely popular, atleast in Gurgaon, and even comes with Carplay now. I'm sure many others think the 4th gen is a better looker anyway.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by John316_WRC

1. SIZE - New City is 109mm(almost 11cm) longer & is 53mm(5.3cm) wider. This is a good increase in size.

However, the wheelbase is shorter than the outgoing City. Hence the interior space is likely to remain the same or reduce a little bit.

Originally Posted by John316_WRC

2. ENGINE - New DOHC engine over the older SOHC. Better power delivery, more power & more torque (although it's a small improvement)

Source? They have already updated 1.5 iVTEC for BS6 with SOHC configuration itself. Anyways, SOHC -> DOHC was a discussion point for a price increase more than a decade and a half ago - not in 2020!

[RogerEphraim]

Didn't Fiat already try this strategy with the Linea? They sold the old and new models calling the older model as the Linea Classic. I had one of these - beautiful car, but with no features - No Central Locking, No Music System, No safety features. They did drop the price, dut I didn't see the car really making any sales, let alone with Fleet operators. Then again, that was Fiat!

[Nithesh_M]

Thai review

https://youtu.be/LvK4ci0PRtI

[NICHE]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

Source? They have already updated 1.5 iVTEC for BS6 with SOHC configuration itself. Anyways, SOHC -> DOHC was a discussion point for a price increase more than a decade and a half ago - not in 2020!

https://www.autocarindia.com/car-new...-engine-417198

No, the Indian market won’t get the 122hp, 1.0-litre turbo-petrol available in Thailand-spec City but instead, will have a new 1.5 naturally-aspirated engine with a similar cubic capacity to the outgoing unit. In fact, displacing 1,498cc, the new engine is just one cubic centimetre larger than the previous engine (1,497cc) but that’s where the similarities end.

The new engine is believed to develop 121hp - a mere 2hp increase over the earlier engine. But, Honda sources say that the improvement is not in the power output but the way the engine delivers its power and torque, which is believed to be more concentrated in the lower and middle reaches of the powerband.

[vipul_singh]

The pain will continue for Honda globally, till the time financial benefits from the platform consolidation initiative ('Honda Architecture') announced in 2019 start flowing in.

We should be seeing cars based on 'Honda Architecture' launch in 2020 / 21:

https://www.caradvice.com.au/755284/honda-
architecture-flexible-platform/


https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/inter...otas-tnga.html (Honda's new scalable platform, similar to VW's MQB & Toyota's TNGA)

I hope once Honda becomes operationally efficient and financially healthier, they will focus on bringing the zest back.

[nickatnite]

I cannot believe i'm reading this thread and please tell me it isn't true. .It is your call Honda Motor if you want to listen to your local MBA hacks who i believe have allegedly ruined the indian car industry with their twisted strategies similar to the alleged deviants in the Indian IT industry who have made a difficult life even more unbearable for the hapless Indian or you want to listen to car guys who want to push cars out the showroom floor?.

It is your call if you want to make a sales success of the new City or another white elephant. Meanwhile the MBA hacks would have cleaned out your bank accounts giving themselves high salaries while promising the moon, regardless and as usual.I thought the Japanese were smart. Apparently not anymore. I declare the new Honda City dead even before arrival.

[Dinesh_Malhotra]

Originally Posted by nickatnite

I cannot believe i'm reading this thread and please tell me it isn't true. .It is your call Honda Motor if you want to listen to your local MBA hacks who i believe have allegedly ruined the indian car industry with their twisted strategies similar to the alleged deviants in the Indian IT industry who have made a difficult life even more unbearable for the hapless Indian or you want to listen to car guys who want to push cars out the showroom floor?.

It is your call if you want to make a sales success of the new City or another white elephant. Meanwhile the MBA hacks would have cleaned out your bank accounts giving themselves high salaries while promising the moon, regardless and as usual.I thought the Japanese were smart. Apparently not anymore. I declare the new Honda City dead even before arrival.

You have summarised it all so well here. This exactly is the problem that we are facing and the car industry has fallen prey to it. Also, I like this car over the current Honda City (old).

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by vipul_singh

We should be seeing cars based on 'Honda Architecture' launch in 2020 / 21:

We may not be benefitted at all.

The cheapest global model in Honda's Indian lineup is the Civic - with the new generation Jazz being given a miss for the Indian market.

[vipul_singh]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

The cheapest global model in Honda's Indian lineup is the Civic - with the new generation Jazz being given a miss for the Indian market.

I should have been more clear: I meant 'we' as global consumers. And, to the extent that I know, it is unclear if the new Fit / Jazz benefits from 'Honda Architecture' at all.

I suspect that Honda's speed and creativity is getting hampered due to financial stress and focus on profits. As per the 2019 Fortune Global 500 list (so, 2018 numbers), they reported at 42% decline in profitability (they made 5.x billion USD) even though revenues rose 3%.

I hope they will behave differently in smaller markets such as ours once there is more money on the table to go around. In the meantime the Indian unit will have to make do with Amaze based CUVs and selling two generations of the same model side-by-side.

[Rakmo]

Looks like Honda wants to apply Maruti’s dezire strategy with the city.
And it might if they drop the prices for current city and an explainable premium for the new gen.

So, the budget conscious buyers(can be a first time Honda buyer) and taxi aggregators may prefer the current lower priced car.

Also, we need to keep in mind the “ Mind Games” car OEMs play when you enter the dealership with their pricing. I.e. the person usually ends up buying 1 model or a car class above than what he had in mind before entering the showroom.

So, it may happen that someone interested in Amaze may end buying the lower variants of the current city and someone interested in current city may prefer the new City. Although this new strategy is unlike Honda but this strategy may work to drive volumes at the expense of brand image and volumes are what they need for now to stay relevant.

Thay may need to follow this for a while before new products are launched(which usually takes them 5-6 years in development). And if this new thinking works for city, this idea may be applied to Amaze as well.

[shibujp]

Let us pretend for a minute that Honda is thinking straight and this actually makes sense. What are their options?

1. Drop the price of the current generation and sell the new one at a slightly higher price. Because with the current pricing strategy the City has all but left a gap in the 9.5 -13 L segment. Most of it's sales seem to happen in higher versions with the top end going upto close to 17L here in Kerala. While Maruti has successfully worked this, that was partly due to the fact that they had a solid client in taxi drivers. I am not sure City has this and also might not be kindly looked on to their customer base who buy it for a slightly premium statement.

2. Sell the new generation in the narrow band between the current City and the Civic. Price the new generation at a premium to the current one. I am not sure how that will pan out given that the Elantra and the lower variants of the Skoda are within striking distance. Also the SUV play is heavy in that space with much more potent drive trains as well.

While the 1.5 is still a great motor, it has to be said that it's quite long in the tooth and has to be laid to rest. Or find a place in the Amaze which would be really something. The sparkling engine packages that gave Honda such a fantastic reputation in India have died a quite death and like Yamaha they need to understand that that is what India loved them for. They should come back to their roots and start giving us those fantastic engine - gearbox packages, 1.8, 2.0 ,1.5 turbo petrols in manuals or good automatics. Since the tunamis Honda has't quite found it's mojo back. The Civic was great but i for one was bitterly disappointed at the lacklustre engine packages doled out to us here.

Drive on,
Shibu.

3.