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Old 24th August 2020, 19:08   #1
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Default Has Mahindra & Mahindra really missed the bus? Lost opportunities & sales?

Getting relegated to # 4 next to Tata Motors, as seen by the July 2020 monthly sales, Mahindra has been losing space in the very space it helped create decades ago, with it's SUV's, MUV's and UV's. During those decades, there was no real challenger their leadership in these segments. The car segment was left for other players, who with their respective expertises dominated or were left out in the race. With Ford, Mahindra entered the car space in the mid 1990's and the Escort came along. After moving together for not even a decade, they parted ways. Some ten years later, Mahindra went with Renault and the parting with the French car maker was with it's vesting rights for manufacture of it's dated Logan alias Verito with Mahindra. A sliced sub-4000 mm Verito Vibe was also born (or was it still-born?) as a hatch variant. These never sold well, but the company still lists these and their EV versions on the portfolio. The Ssangyong purchase was a distraction of focus as the story is currently ending on a sad note, going by the market reports. And the purchase of the EV brand Reva and it's transformation into the Mahindra E2O and so on is another Achilles heel for the auto major. It ain't going nowhere as we can conclude. Their American dream with the Roxor is a story of struggle, but it's too early to say as to whether things will get even for Mahindra in the US market, due to the Fiat Chrysler Automobiles (FCA) copyright issues and so on. Mahindra's two wheeler forays with their purchase of the Pithampur facility in M.P. from Kinetic Engineering is also nothing very encouraging to write about, not even their tie-up with Classic Legends for manufacturing Brand Jawa motorbikes as pf now.

The point to be made is that with so many ambitious forays on a continuous basis in so many market segments, is Mahindra losing it's dominance on the area of it's core competence ? The half a dozen new sub four metre launches viz. Quanto, NuvoSport, KUV 100, Verito Vibe, TUV 300 and XUV 300 have failed to enthuse the buyers. And lately, the two dated but very well accepted models, the Bolero and Scorpio together with the farm equipment division sustain the huge automaker for all it's other activities generating income, though the balance sheets reported huge losses during the Q1 of FY 2020-21. Bolero appears at # 16 (4360 units) and Scorpio at # 20 (3135 units) in the Top 20 best sellers list. The XUV 500 reported sales of just 839 units last month (source teambhp figures for numbers despatched to dealers). And # 20 indicates the borderline, so the Scorpio has just managed to stay afloat. Though the company has newer strategies being enunciated by it's ED for auto and farm sectors Mr Jejurkar saying about the all new XUV 500 (W 601) and Scorpio (Z101) and other plans. But the compact SUV space has already been occupied by many other newer entrants in this segment. Mahindra's mismatched launches and late or almost no apt response with a proper portfolio in the compact SUV segment, where a spiralling demand is evident and is for here to stay, can be called as a major policy failure. Their handling of too many recipes at a time could have been a factor, that has allowed competitors have a cake walk on Mahindra's turf - a sad saga for the auto major !

Some excerpts from the Economic Times reported interview with Mr Jejurkar, ED :-

Quote:

Taking charge of the automotive business after a gap of almost five to seven years, Jejurikar has taken stock of what went wrong with the past portfolio.

“The Mahindra SUVs stand for being tough, edgy, and unique. Wherever we have done that, we have been successful. You will see that in the next three launches, which will help us consolidate our position,” he said.

Demand for the Bolero, Scorpio, XUV 500 and pickups is strong, but a large part of the portfolio launched recently hasn’t done as well.

Between 2013 and 2019, M&M launched about half a dozen sub-4 metre SUVs (Quanto, NuvoSport, KUV 100, Verito Vibe, TUV 300 and XUV 300). Most of them failed to sustain the excitement. The company has sorely missed out on the compact SUV and MPV segments, where the market size has more than doubled since 2013. M&M saw its volumes come off-peak from 2.8 lakh in FY-12 to 1.8 lakh in FY-20 and market share dropping from 55% to 19% in the same time frame.

Hormazd Sorabjee, Editor, Autocar India says the product quality at Mahindra has transformed to compete hard with global players.

“For sure, Mahindra needs a differentiated approach and stand out products, but how much would this yield in terms of volumes remains to be seen. The company has got the design and price value equation a wee-bit off. If it is corrected, M&M surely can find its own mark in the competitive market,” added Sorabjee.

The company sorely missed a Renault Duster or Hyundai Creta rival or a Maruti Suzuki Ertiga rival. From a leader, it was expected that the company would participate in that space, but M&M decided to stick to its core. Finally, M&M will be introducing a soft-roader B SUV in alliance with Ford, but it will come only by 2023.
The full report on this newslink :-

https://auto.economictimes.indiatime...ative/77648790

Last edited by anjan_c2007 : 24th August 2020 at 19:17.
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Old 24th August 2020, 20:43   #2
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Default re: Has Mahindra & Mahindra really missed the bus?

With the new XUV500, Thar, Scorpio I am expecting them to make a comeback. XUV500 and Scorpio are very old now and it’s the reason for their low sales. Also once Thar will be launched there will be a lot of bookings which will turn into a successful product if and only pricing is bang on!

New engines coming in like the Petrol TGDi Stallion a first for Mahindra, also the Ford JV will help them better their own products in quality, overall fit-finish and refinement. Launching a car along with Ford will help both of them in the long-run.

I am betting next year is going to be Mahindra’s year! Let’s see how the pandemic and buyer sentiments pan out in the near future.
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Old 25th August 2020, 01:45   #3
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Default re: Has Mahindra & Mahindra really missed the bus?



Though the XUV300 and Marazzo, makes it looks as if Mahindra had lost the plot especially since both are competent products. The coming years will be Mahindra's, though have to agree with Hormazd. They should get their price - VFM aspect correct.

Leave the Thar. Brand builder. Halo product.
Both India's rural and urban will go ga-ga over the next gen Scorpio and the next gen XUV500. Though confused on Mahindra's strategy to sell the older models also alongside (stupid IMHO). If the Marazzo, XUV300 and New thar is anything to go by, these two products alone will bring in the fat margins.

Add to that, the Creta rival co-developed with Ford.

But they did mess up on their sub 4m market.
A slightly corrected price would have seen more sales for the XUV300.
The Marazzo is in a difficult position. Neither Ertiga rival nor a proper alternative to the Innova.
Alturas was DOA regardless of Mahindra or Ssangyong badge, going against Tfort and Endy with at par pricing.

Less said about the EV debacle. Even with the headstart.

So, all in all. We could only say something about Mahindra's future by this time next year. Provided they launch products at least this year end, and don't get too optimistic on initial pricing.

Last edited by BlackPearl : 25th August 2020 at 19:40. Reason: Edited. Thanks.
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Old 25th August 2020, 08:14   #4
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Default re: Has Mahindra & Mahindra really missed the bus?

Can this be attributed to the brand image? Mahindra has basically made box shaped vehicles irrespective of the price range. What suits a Thar or Bolero will not look good in a Nexon/Dzire category vehicle. Their engines, atleast in specs, were nothing to inspire. The heavy tank-like look of the vehicles also paints a picture of fuel guzzlers, and the heavy weight somehow translated to pricing of the vehicle above the median for that category.

Mahindra needs to get out of the 1960's boxy cars and get "fluidic" in their design. Get good engines (mStallion looks promising), hook them up with TC/CVT and price the vehicles atleast at par with Tata/below Hyundai category and then we're talking! Solely depending on rural sales/pickup sales will not bode well.
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Old 25th August 2020, 09:50   #5
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Default re: Has Mahindra & Mahindra really missed the bus?

Quote:
Originally Posted by anjan_c2007 View Post
With Ford, with Renault, Ssangyong purchase, EV brand Reva and American dream with the Roxor, two wheeler forays with their purchase of the Pithampur facility in M.P. from Kinetic Engineering is also nothing very encouraging to write about, not even their tie-up with Classic Legends for manufacturing Brand Jawa motorbikes as pf now.
You forgot their another flop but possibly very capex heavy venture. Mahindra Trucks!
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Old 25th August 2020, 10:17   #6
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Default re: Has Mahindra & Mahindra really missed the bus?

Not at all. Yes, they are a little late in launching all new products and mainly focus on facelifts. I mean, the current Scorpio & XUV5OO are way too old now.

Next year, when the new gen Scorpio and XUV is launched along with their new Creta competitor, I am sure they will get back to the 3rd position in terms of sales.

Even though TATA makes exceptionally good vehicles, I feel the general sentiment in Indian buyers is that Mahindra is more reliable and their A.S.S. is a tad better.

Also, I really admire they way Mahindra UVs feel. They are heavy and there is no effort to conceal weight with paper thin panels. The doors make a very satisfying THUD. I know this does not affect the safety aspect, but the feel good factor is present. Their mHawk engine is designed to offer driving pleasure, fuel efficiency be damned. They are also focusing on designing safe vehicles (XUV5OO onwards). These traits are very hard in find in modern vehicles.

They were lacking in fit/finish and quality, but their newer launches have proved that they have improved considerably. The only grouse or improvement to be made is the ride and handling in their vehicles, which they should learn from TATA!
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Old 25th August 2020, 10:27   #7
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Default re: Has Mahindra & Mahindra really missed the bus?

If Mahindra learns from Kia, they'll fare way better.

Going forward, why not offer petrol engine options and proper, durable TC automatic gearboxes as standard options across all models and variants?

Oh, and why even bother plonking anemic engines in an era where the customer wants more? Looks like they applied their brains with the Thar, happily for us all-

Quote:
There’s already chatter online about using smaller engines and going for an attractive low price. This has merit and could perhaps work later on, but for now, it’s imperative that the Thar has a powerful, large-capacity engine. As Goenka said, “Thar is all about power” and beyond the performance, it’s the imagery that’s key. You can talk of turbochargers and direct injection, but small capacity is still viewed by many as inferior, and so I believe launching with two large-capacity powerplants was the right thing to do.
...
Having smaller-capacity engines, 4x2 drivetrains and a lower price would bring in an initial flood of customers, but this would fizzle out and would require deft balancing of the profit margin too. It’s something an executive would do to get a quick promotion, but not what someone playing the long game would do.
https://www.autocarindia.com/auto-bl...cisions-418375

I only wish they had thought of this aspect of smaller engines when they came out with the TUV 300. I have a hole in my wallet and a little bit of dissatisfaction to show for it.
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Old 25th August 2020, 10:35   #8
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Default re: Has Mahindra & Mahindra really missed the bus?



Mahindra's ROXOR has generated a huge amount of interest in overseas markets as a reliable and no-frills brand compared to FCA's Jeep.
If you go through the comments in the above-linked video, there is organic support for Mahindra. M&M also garnered credibility with its decision to start manufacturing in the mecca of the US automotive industry, Michigan, where almost all the giants of the industry packed up and left.

My friend works in Mahindra's Tractor production plant in Nagpur, since the lockdown he hasn't seen any slowdown in production and sales.

Mahindra may not be in the top 10 selling cars as I wish them to be. Some of the feature ommissions in the upcoming Thar are undesirable, which I'm seriously thinking of buying, but I still wish to see them grow into a brand that Honda was known for.

Last edited by Ashutosh : 25th August 2020 at 10:52.
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Old 25th August 2020, 11:19   #9
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Default re: Has Mahindra & Mahindra really missed the bus? Lost opportunities & sales?

If you ask me, I'll say that despite trying extremely hard to diversify, Mahindra is in exactly the same place it was a decade or 2 ago = that is, primarily a UV maker. And even here, they have faced a lot of challenges & competition. See the Bolero's sales as an example. At one time, it used to be a consistent 8000 - 10000 units a month seller. Now, it's 40 - 50% lesser. While the XUV500 was a roaring success back in the day, I doubt the next-gen will be able to sell 4,000 units / month with the Seltos, Creta, Harrier, Hector around. Mahindra's MUVs & SUVs have taken a big hit from newer competition & monocoque UVs (which even rural India has taken to!).

After all these attempts, the bread & butter majority business of Mahindra remains big UVs. Sharing a relevant post of mine from the Jawa failure thread:
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Big part of the blame goes to the Mahindra Group as well. This is their usual story = get excited, acquire a company with lots of glitz & glamour, throw a party, but follow it up with awful execution. Standard Mahindra playbook. Either they suck at execution or they don't have management bandwidth.

Think about all their acquisitions & tie-ups.

- How did Jawa fare? Answer is above.

- SsangYong? Loss making, and on the block.

- Reva? Dead. Could have been a 1st-mover in mass market EVs.

- Navistar Trucks. Who???

- 4 years since they acquired BSA Motorcycles. Results awaited.

- Mahindra-Renault JV? Divorce.

- Mahindra-Ford. Marriage, divorce, and now a desperate marriage (as Ford wants out).

- Peugeot. Doesn't look pretty yet.

- Other acquisitions include Carnation, Finland's Sampo Rosenlew, Erkunt Traktor Sanayii AS and more.

In comparison, consider Tata Motors. They made ONE notable acquisition (Jaguar-Land Rover) and executed it so well. The $2 billion they paid has been long made back, and they now own one of the most high-end luxury brands in the world.
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Old 25th August 2020, 11:59   #10
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Default Re: Has Mahindra & Mahindra really missed the bus? Lost opportunities & sales?

I don't think so, their upcoming XUV500 & Scorpio are going to change this. Their brand image in SUV segment is much better than that of Tata. Thar is further going to enhance it.

Look at this, last month the age old XUV5OO was just 183 short of the latest Harrier. Scorpio is still a favorite SUV among many in tier 2 & 3 cities, imagine what potential these hold with next gen models.

Only miss I feel is that they did so many experiments in sub-4-meter segment and could not succeed, and this segment the most happening in volume market.

Edit: Just read GTO's views and agree with him but in terms of claiming back no 3 position or getting ahead of Tata, (no 3 may be grabbed by KIA in coming days) I still feel they will easily do it with upcoming XUV5OO and Scorpio.

Last edited by S.MJet : 25th August 2020 at 12:08.
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Old 25th August 2020, 15:45   #11
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Default Re: Has Mahindra & Mahindra really missed the bus? Lost opportunities & sales?

Mahindra has all the right ingredients. The execution and pricing is where it has yet to deliver.

While upgrading from my hatch to Mini-SUV last year, the XUV300 Top End was the most feature laden package, including number of airbags, that I evaluated (have committed to swadeshi, so evaluated Mahindra, Maruti and Tata only).

However the almost ₹3 Lakh premium (OTR, BLR) over the Nexon Top End, lowest in class GC and minuscule storage ruled it out.

The new Thar seems delicious, and I'm sorely tempted by the Diesel (range) Automatic (convenience) option. What remains to be seen is the pricing and the feedback once it transitions from teaser to real world use.

The battle in EVs was for Mahindra to lose with the first mover advantage, and they seem to have spectacularly done exactly that. The inroads Tata is making with real world EVs should be a hard learned lesson for Mahindra.

It doesn't seem Mahindra requires much to get it's act together. But until it does, the line between success and failure in the automotive world is, as we know, a thin but unforgiving line...

Last edited by NowNew7 : 25th August 2020 at 15:46. Reason: Formatting
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Old 25th August 2020, 15:53   #12
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Default Re: Has Mahindra & Mahindra really missed the bus? Lost opportunities & sales?

The new XUV 500 and Scorpio will not change anything. Look at Marazzo and XUV 300. Nothing wrong with the products. But, would you pay the money they are asking for these? XUV 500 is no longer the value proposition. It had grand features for a reasonable price when it was lunched. Now every car in that segment (or even below) has better features. The new XUV 500 will be even less of a value proposition. Mahindra will want to make up for all the losses with just one product and will price it accordingly. Customers will sigh and move on. Something is not right with the mindset of Mahindra management.
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Old 25th August 2020, 16:03   #13
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Default Re: Has Mahindra & Mahindra really missed the bus? Lost opportunities & sales?

I guess it is just a tad too early to say they missed the bus.

M&M primarily having UV's as the revenue generation sources and mostly diesel centric engines had the hurdle of BS6 to cross. Even now, the XUV5OO and the Scorpio do not have BS6 Automatic variants, which may be leading to comparatively lower sales. And the Bolero, out of which the numbers are mostly from rural India is unsurprisingly doing lesser numbers due to the pandemic. They will easily take back their 3rd spot once the newer genertion of Scorpio, XUV are on the roads and the overall economic situation betters.

What they did miss however, is of course the First mover advantage in the EV space.

EDIT: We shouldn't be really comparing the Mahindra UV's with Seltos's and Creta's. Clearly, the Hyundai's and Kia's primary customers are White-Collar workers who can still afford to buy cars even during these times. IMHO, barring the XUV300 & Alturas G4, all other Mahindra cars were probably designed keeping in perspective the urban, semi-urban and rural consumers.

Last edited by jetsetgo08 : 25th August 2020 at 16:13.
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Old 26th August 2020, 03:38   #14
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Default Re: Has Mahindra & Mahindra really missed the bus? Lost opportunities & sales?

A company,
  • that's been making vehicles for over 6 decades.
  • that delivered their first new attempt with anything remotely modern, the Scorpio almost 2 decades ago.
  • that has partnered with global automakers that include Ford (twice), Mitsubishi and Renault.
  • that owns companies like Pininfarina and SsangYong.
and yet isn't capable of being the master of anything other than milking the cash cows in their stable without adding any incremental value.

What's even more amazing is how some folks defend Mahindra's incompetence. It's like a student who hasn't finished his Engineering course even after 8 years and people want to support them for 'trying'.
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Old 26th August 2020, 04:54   #15
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Default Re: Has Mahindra & Mahindra really missed the bus?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashutosh View Post
https://www.Youtube.com/watch?v=k85ooPztSB8

Mahindra's ROXOR has generated a huge amount of interest in overseas markets as a reliable and no-frills brand compared to FCA's Jeep.
If you go through the comments in the above-linked video, there is organic support for Mahindra. M&M also garnered credibility with its decision to start manufacturing in the mecca of the US automotive industry, Michigan, where almost all the giants of the industry packed up and left.
Lets not get ahead of ourselves here. Mahindra Roxor is classified as a side by side vehicle meaning it cant even be driven legally on public roads. Its basically a farm vehicle and gets absolutely creamed in that segment by the Honda Pioneer 1000 or the Polaris Ranger 1000 when it comes to comfort, technology and off road ability.

As for Jeep, they do not sell a side by side in USA and therefore is not even a competition. I understand the sentiment of feeling good that an Indian manufacturer has made it but they havent. They have a long long way to go.
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