[Godzilla]

I see people talking about cost as a major factor for lack of safety in Kia. I completely disagree with this.

If Maruti has to deliver a budget hatch such as espresso or alto and it lacks crash safety. It is quite understandable they have to manage costs as most people buying cars in that segment are price sensitive.

However Kia is serving a segment where people are buying in that segment hoping it is better and safer than sub 10 lakh car. IMO most people who get a car above 10 lakhs don’t bother about paying 20-30 k more for a safer car. I feel it is a disastrous/ imbecile decision by Kia to have a two different body structures for the same car which is anyways sold for 20 lakhs. It is also highest level of cheating when the marketing team talks about 4 star crash rating of US made Kia’s to potential customers. We knew this only after a BHPian spent his hard earned money to research about this. The greedy Kia/Hyundai group has shown us their true motto which is ‘make more money even at the cost of human lives’, this inflicts more pain when a customer who was tricked/fooled by showing a safety rating of the international version. IMHO I have not seen any company stoop to this level of misery and evilness.

[REN]

Originally Posted by Godzilla

It is also highest level of cheating when the marketing team talks about 4 star crash rating of US made Kia’s to potential customers....

....this inflicts more pain when a customer who was tricked/fooled by showing a safety rating of the international version. IMHO I have not seen any company stoop to this level of misery and evilness.

Has Kia Motors India advertised/used Seltos' international crash test results in any of their official communication materials? Surely they wouldn't be that stupid. Not a snide comment, being in advertising, I'm genuinely curious.

[vsrivatsa]

Originally Posted by buntee90

I have sent this thread to a prospective Creta Diesel buyer, maybe it will put some sense into him and may be just maybe look towards Jeep Compass instead.

That is once again a perception - there is no proof about Jeep Compass being any better at the moment until GNCAP does a test on the Indian model and puts out the results.

On the other hand, if Jeep is really confident about their product they should sponsor and get the Compass tested at the earliest and use it as good marketing depending on the result and IF it scores 5 stars.

[Godzilla]

Originally Posted by REN

Has Kia Motors India advertised/used Seltos' international crash test results in any of their official communication materials? Surely they wouldn't be that stupid. Not a snide comment, being in advertising, I'm genuinely curious.

I have not seen one by Kia. However, when a potential customer walks into a Kia dealership and asks about safety. I am quite convinced many dealerships/customer touch points would have mentioned about 4-star safety and below some examples of media coverage in India clamouring the safety of Seltos and not mentioning that it is a different platform/car. I have seen multiple comments in this forum comparing safety of Indian vs International versions as the Indian version was not tested. It is natural for people to assume if a product launched in different markets with the same name would be of similar quality except for the trim levels and some features.

https://www.autocarindia.com/car-new...-rating-415407

https://www.financialexpress.com/aut...ating/1807347/



One media claimed "The Seltos is Kia’s newest compact SUV. An international product but Kia’s first and currently only offering in India, the Seltos SUV has scored a 5-star rating in the ANCAP (Australasian New Car Assessment Program) Safety crash tests."

Now, with all this drama promoted by media, if a brand/management keeps silent about the fact that these are two different cars. Well done Kia.

[sridhar-v]

The main problem, as I see it, is that all the cars are primarily designed with Left hand Drive as the major market. So invariably a conversion to RHD is a bit of a hatchet job. Crash ratings obviously will go for a toss.
The second issue is that the engine orientation has changed from longitudinal to traverse.
And to top it all there is immense pressure to reduce weight and decrease the frontal engine bay length of the vehicle.
Add to this is the cost target for the market and the need to offer gizmos and bling. So compromises are made for material grades and construction.

It is heartening to note that desi cars designed from scratch are able to get 4 and 5 star ratings without breaking the bank. So it is time the foreign brands stop posturing and take the extra effort to achieve a minimum 4 star rating.

[padmrajravi]

Originally Posted by sridhar-v

The main problem, as I see it, is that all the cars are primarily designed with Left hand Drive as the major market. So invariably a conversion to RHD is a bit of a hatchet job. Crash ratings obviously will go for a toss.

I don't think this is the case with Seltos atleast. Australian Seltos is also right hand drive and scored 5 stars in ANCAP. This was just a planned effort by Kia to give us a sub standard product.

[fhdowntheline]

Originally Posted by padmrajravi

IThis was just a planned effort by Kia to give us a sub standard product.

I dont understand this vitriol at all. Kia never claimed that it had 4 or 5 stars in an Indian GNCAP test when it started selling. More than 1 lakh people purchased this car, solely not on the basis of the safety gear as such because it offers all the standard features by regulation- ABS, driver -side airbag, and then some, by way of additional airbags and ESP. Yes, some cars have scored better than the Seltos in the recent crash tests, but as per Indian regulations, it still remains a road-worthy product. Until that determining factor changes, no amount of raving or ranting is going to matter.

[buntee90]

Originally Posted by vsrivatsa

That is once again a perception - there is no proof about Jeep Compass being any better at the moment until GNCAP does a test on the Indian model and puts out the results.

On the other hand, if Jeep is really confident about their product they should sponsor and get the Compass tested at the earliest and use it as good marketing depending on the result and IF it scores 5 stars.

I believe the Jeep Compass in Australian NCAP scored 5 Stars, it’s the same car which is sold in India mechanically.

[vsrivatsa]

Originally Posted by buntee90

I believe the Jeep Compass in Australian NCAP scored 5 Stars, it’s the same car which is sold in India mechanically.

Most of these companies create this perception - sorry what you are saying is still in the assumption/belief domain and definitely a possibility but we cannot say 100% based on one article. Many assumed similarly about Kia Seltos also when they published the ANCAP 5 star rating for the Kia Seltos selling in Australia.

Here is one more just to read: Jeep Compass India-Spec Vs Australia-Spec: What's Different? - Given that they are mounting a heavier more powerful engine on the Australia spec Compass there is every possibility for that version to have additional Ultra High Strength Steel - we cannot prove either way unless we get some diagrams like what we have on this thread.

Until GNCAP crashes the Jeep Compass running on Indian roads let us not defend Jeep and until then I recommend reading this post : Link (Understanding car platforms, starting with the Hyundai Venue)

Wise Words I must say from BHPian Seenz:

We are all passionate enthusiasts here, not shareholders of Maruti, Hyundai, Tata or anyone else. However, this is time to call out cars which are not being tested under Global NCAP. We should not care even if the company claims that the structure or platform is made of Titanium or Vibranium alloy. We do not care if the car is based on K1 or K13 or even K150 platform, just slam that car into the barriers at Global NCAP and none of us keyboard warriors here will be wiser.

[adi.mariner]

Originally Posted by sridhar-v

The main problem, as I see it, is that all the cars are primarily designed with Left hand Drive as the major market. So invariably a conversion to RHD is a bit of a hatchet job. Crash ratings obviously will go for a toss.

Quoting your post just for the LH Drive Design to RH Drive Conversion for the Indian market. The questions are not for you personally but for the experts/knowledgeable folks on the Forum. Isn't this true for the Germans like BMW, Mercedes, etc as well? So would their crash ratings for Indian models be suspect as well? Decoding the VIN for a BMW says it is a "National version, India".

[niranjanprabhu]

Somewhere we also need to realize that ALL car manufacturers exhibit this behavior and this is more to do with the massive taxes on cars in India. We have 28% GST + 17% CESS (if you are a business you cannot claim input tax credit (ITC) on a cess) big cars PLUS 20% on the entire ex showroom price (that includes this 45% tax) as road tax. Insurance is a separate amount. In the west, specially the US, the taxes are in the range of 15-20% on cars. Appeal to all to look at this issue from this angle as well. Bad mouthing car companies is the easiest way to understand this issue.

[sridhar-v]

Originally Posted by adi.mariner

Quoting your post just for the LH Drive Design to RH Drive Conversion for the Indian market. The questions are not for you personally but for the experts/knowledgeable folks on the Forum. Isn't this true for the Germans like BMW, Mercedes, etc as well? So would their crash ratings for Indian models be suspect as well? Decoding the VIN for a BMW says it is a "National version, India".

Let me share my experience with the Grand Vitara. It is a 2007 CBU import from Japan. I got it used in 2015. On looking up the VIN and researching the electricals and other features I came to the following conclusions:-
1. Even though it is a CBU they have stripped it of Traction Control, ESP and the sensors necessary for side airbags. Even the ECU & BCU seem to be different from the mainstream markets.
2. From the missing features in the electricals they seem to have created a sort of lower cost & specced export version for India.
3. While the overall structure seems to be the same god only knows whether they have compromised on any structural elements.

For me, at that point in time, it was an upgrade from a smaller car (Ford Fusion) without any safety features. And the GV had ABS & Airbags and definitely was as structurally as sound as the Fusion.
But if I want to replace the Grand Vitara i would look for something much safer.

I have had a fair number of bangs and crashes in my 40 years of driving. My
take on safety is based on the hindsight of these. While all the electronic aids and gizmos are wonderful mechanical & structural integrity on the passenger compartment.
So foremost I will see how the car body performs in a frontal crash test, then in the offset crash and the side impact tests.
I don't care a bit about sunroofs, auto headlights rain sensing wipers, connected features and voice commands.

My message to manufacturers is this:- Take a car off your local assembly line and get it banged up by GNCAP. Then talk on the basis of those results. I don't care how your car performed in some crash test in some unrelated market. or whether as per your marketing wizkids an elephant can stand on the roof. (Incidently in the Seltos I dare them to accept that, on a standard model, the roof can at least carry 100kgs carrier load, let alone an elephant!)

And what if they refuse to do this? And one of the said cars fits all my requirements otherwise? Well, if it has a competitor that is tested (GNCAP) and is costlier I will scrounge and go unshaven but spend more.
Case in point :- The Ford Ecosport AT fits all the requirements for replacing my Santro. But till they do a crash test of the Indian model I will be more inclined to go with the Thar at an additional cost of 4 lakhs.

I will be in the market, in 2023, for a replacement for my 2 cars. Hopefully somebody will become worthy of taking my money. As it stands it looks like only Mahindra seems poised to win my trust.

[sharc_biker]

Is the India spec Kia Carnival same in terms of structural strength compared to the international models or has this cost cutting low grade engineering made its way to the Carnival as well?

[AutoDowntowner]

wow. Thanks a lot for providing deep info about BIWs of these 2 sister cars. This will help people understand how a same car is so much different in different markets.

[alexpaul]

Originally Posted by fhdowntheline

Yes, some cars have scored better than the Seltos in the recent crash tests, but as per Indian regulations, it still remains a road-worthy product. Until that determining factor changes, no amount of raving or ranting is going to matter.

Some of these cars including a SUV are cheaper than the seltos,but still managed to score above the expectations . Do you think the regulation forced the cheaper cars to be more safer then seltos? Or is it that the Indian Regulation has different standards for foreign manufacturer and Indian Manufacturer. Word of mouth is a very powerful tool , it can either destroy a manufacturer or make him overnight success. Think Skoda and you will know why some people are still apprehensive to buy one. So some amount of raving and ranting will have some positive effects rather than keeping silent on what is happening in Indian Auto industry .