[RSR]

I voted for Turbo-petrol!

I've used and enjoyed turbo-diesels before, but after I learned that diesel exhaust is carcinogenic (link), I've developed a natural aversion to the dirty fuel.

[ChargedGarage]

Talk of fuel efficiency doesn't suit enthusiasts well. If you have a lot of running then best to choose a super efficient diesel engine in a car that you drive sedately and save your money there which you can then use to purchase a turbo-petrol car to have fun in. I personally like to choose the engine that provides the maximum hp and torque available in a model, be it diesel or petrol.

I used to own a 1.8 TSi Skoda Laura which was super fun to drive and gave 16-18kmpl on the highway when driven sedately. Since the lockdown, my monthly driving became almost zero and so I traded my Skoda for an Audi S4 where I don't care much for fuel efficiency since it's just so much fun to drive.

[extreme_torque]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

Diesels, by definition are more fuel efficient. But that does not make them cheaper to run perse. On a like for like basis a diesel engine is always going to be more expensive than a petrol. Whether the total package works out cheaper is highly debatable. It depends on many factors, price of petrol versus diesel, road tax diesel vv petrol, insurance, weight of the car, emission, mileage etc etc.

I am talking purely in Indian context. A diesel engine is 20-30% more efficient than an equivalent petrol counterpart and it also doesnt suffer as much in stop and go traffic. Even small petrol engines are pretty inefficient in stop and go traffic. Also when you say a diesel engine is going to be more expensive than a petrol, you mean manufacturing or the cost to maintain for the life of the engine? Because if it is the cost to maintain for the life of the engine, I have a contrary view.

Originally Posted by Jeroen

I don’t think you can claim they are more reliable than their petrol counterparts.

Again talking purely from an Indian context. Anecdotally i have come across lesser issues with European diesel engines in India compared to petrols. Fuel quality for sure is a factor which is why diesel's, since they are built tougher, fare better in our environment.

Originally Posted by Jeroen

I run petrol cars easily up to 300.000 km with no problems none whatsoever.

Japanese petrol engines last twice that without too many issues and just regular service. I am not saying petrol cars are inherently unreliable. Talking purely from an Indian context.

Originally Posted by Jeroen

There is no doubt in my mind that this is just a global trend. Nothing to do with what petrol heads like, but driven by emission regulations around the world. Diesels are the first ones to loose out. So it is going to hit every nation in the world at some time, if it has not already.

There are of course countries with a huge diesel engine base. But given the environmental challenges India is facing, for me this diesel thing is just a lost cause ultimately. If you like them, buy one quickly, it might well be your last.

Jeroen

For that matter any ICE car is a bad investment (its a depreciating asset I know, take it as least loss) if you keep your cars longer than 5-6 years, right now given the bans on selling ICE cars in most advanced economies by 2030-2035. More than that though, I think electric cars would have improved so much by then that buying an ICE car would be like buying a Nokia 3310 over an iPhone.

For e.g I cannot think of a better performance car for its price than Model 3 Performance, electric or not. Where I am, an M3 would cost 50% more, depreciate like there is no tomorrow, will be slower, will cost an absolute fortune to maintain and to fill up and for sure wont be as reliable in the long run.

[avdhesh15]

Voted diesel. I need the efficiency considering my highway runs to my plant outside of Mumbai.

[vredesbyrd]

Voted for Turbo-Diesel with only and only two cars in mind. F10 530d and X166 GL 350 CDI. Have experienced the F10, E60 530d and the W212 350CDI and I'd say that you live only once. So what if it is 7 years old?! One must experience it while there is little time left for nice things, going by the world trends. I've made up my mind. 3.0L, 6-cyl and RWD/4WD are a minimum for my next upgrade, no matter when it happens. NGT can limit our time but they can't take the torque out of our wheels. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

[IP_Man]

Voted for 'Turbo-Diesel'.

IMHO, except for small cars in city commutation, diesel is the only practical option for big, heavy luxury sedans or SUVs.

When I was in Bahrain, I use to commute using Toyota bus that runs on petrol. Due to low torque, driver use to remain constantly in low gear and high engine RPM that makes engine very loud and annoying.

Petrol cars are silent is a myth. On open highway, tyre and wind noise easily overcomes engine noise. High torque in diesel engine makes it fatigue free car to drive.

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by extreme_torque

Also when you say a diesel engine is going to be more expensive than a petrol, you mean manufacturing or the cost to maintain for the life of the engine? Because if it is the cost to maintain for the life of the engine, I have a contrary view.

Correct, manufacturing cost. Maintenance cost differs, but not by much anymore. In the west for decades diesels worked out more expensive, because the same parts and consumables tended to be a bit more expensive. E.g. diesel engine oil cost more than petrol engine oil etc.

These days be it a diesel or a petrol regular maintenance as far as the engine is concerned involved oil, oil filter, air filter, possibly fuel filter. On a petrol you might have to replace the spark plugs, but even a good set of iridium plugs would last you 50-75.000 km on most cars. So there is probably very little difference of what parts, consumables are changed out on a regular service. Prices and cycle times of diesel and petrol parts and consumable are very comparable these days as well.

Originally Posted by extreme_torque

Fuel quality for sure is a factor which is why diesel's, since they are built tougher, fare better in our environment.

What makes you think diesel are built tougher? Or perhaps what does that mean

I came across this (Indian) article. Cant tell how old it is, but they come to conclussion that for low mileages, up to 15-20K petrol variant could still be cheaper than a diesel, from an overall point of view.

https://www.cars24.com/blog/petrol-v...ht-way-choose/

Jeroen

[mkaysaw]

Originally Posted by GTO

No man. If I drive a 6-cylinder diesel like I stole it, it'll still give me 9 - 10 kmpl on the open road. But with the latest petrols, I have seen 3 - 6 kmpl while redlining on the highway (3 kmpl was Audi A8 and 6 was the 330i).

Hi, GTO
Something is amiss here.
My NA V8 S500 routinely gives us 7-8 in the city with 12+on the highway. 9 years old with 100k plus on the odo.
The V12TT S600 gives 10+ on the highway but 5-6 in the city.
With a heavy foot there might aswell be a hole in the fuel tank. It's 3 sometimes lower. 7 years old with 28k on the odo.
Coming to the newer gen turbo petrols.
My V6TT SLC43 rarely goes below 8 even with a heavy foot/city. In fact with the 9 gears, it's cruising happily at 110 ish even at 1400 rpm and gives us 14+ on the highway. Attaching pics as proof. 2 years old with 10k.
And lastly my V6TT GLE350d (diesel 4 years, 80k)
City is 8 and highway is 12-13, with a heavy foot this comes down to 6ish.

Fuel efficiency aside, the Diesel just does not match the pure refinement/sound/fin gains anymore. Had this been 4 years ago, the diesel would have been a no brainer. Today however, things are very much in favour of turbo petrols.

[xcentrk]

Turbo-Petrol it is. I never understand why these guys could not offer 6-cyl Petrol engine when they can do the same for diesel? I don't think the guy who is going to buy such luxury car would be worried about FE!

[LEOMAN]

I have been a diesel guy since inception due the cars i drove with just two petrol exception . I ll jot down the cars i drove since 2004
1)Palio 1.6 GTX for 120000 kms with mediocre fuel efficiency say 6 to 8kmpl in city and max 13kmpl on highways (2005-2007)
2)Optra magnum 2.0TDCI , man what an machine it was just an hoot to drive . Drove it for 140000 kms with an fuel efficiency of 8-10kmpl in city and 14-16kmpl on highways (even at higher speeds).Tenure 2007-2011 four years and no breakover till I had with routine maintenance.
3)Chevrolet cruze VCDI AT it was a beast . Drove it for 125676kms without any hiccups .
City efficiency 8-9kmpl & highways 11-13kmpl . It was a true diesel rocket . Tenure was 2011-2019.
4)Fiat Linea T-jet plus a true turbo petrol i liked . City efficiency was 7-9 kmpl and highway was 11-13 kmpl . Fiats build quality and accurate steering is leagues apart . Tenure of the car was 2013-2015 . Drove it for 25600 kms
5)Fiat Punto 90 hp sport , true efficient car i owned . Fiats DNA and efficiency is beauty with brains combo . City Efficiency 10-13 kmpl and highways 18-22 kmpl . Car is still owned by me and has been driven 65900 kms till today from 2012 .
6)BMW f10 530d , the best diesel i have owned till now . This car has been driven 26660 kms from jan 2019 when i got it till today . This car doesn't need any description . City mileage is around about 8.5-10kmpl and highways is 12.5-15 kmpl .
7)Ford Endeavour 3.2 at 4WD . This is the second best diesel car i own in real tough SUV guise . Bought in march 2020 pre-covid and has been driven 18000 kms till then . Even a paid service at a.s.s is not more than 10,000. City mileage is around about 7.0-9kmpl and highways is 10-13 kmpl .
So have not driven v8 or v12s but my experience with my 530d and Ford endeavour is just stellar . Cant imagine to drive petrols with less performance and less efficiency also.
Diesels have better cooling systems also when compared to petrol counterparts. The heat generated by a petrol engine is way higher than any diesel engine . This is my personal experience . I cant part away with diesels until a forceful stop comes from government .

[Flash777]

Voted for Turbo Diesels.

CRDI simply changed the game for good. While Turbo Petrols are creamy, Turbo Diesels are:

1. More Efficient
2. Naturally Torquey
3. Better Range.

And the way Turbo Diesels munch miles like a Freight Train is quite something when you travel long.

Turbo Diesels have also done something more in the Indian Context - They brought performance to the masses. Think Accent CRDI and Swift Turbo Diesel.

In the German lot, they only became better and made Diesel desirable. And the case becomes even better when it's a big SUV.

[Santoshbhat]

Had a tough time deciding to vote on this one. After a lot of thought, voted for Diesel. I am usually a petrol guy and rarely look at the diesel option when buying cars. Out of the last 10 cars our family has bought, 9 are petrols with only one Diesel and that happens to be a German Diesel (X3 30d), and I absolutely love it!

Reasons why I voted for diesel

• Six cylinder diesels give me the best balance of power, refinement and efficiency.
• Excellent range for long distance trips
• Flexibility to tank up from just about any decent bunk across the country. No need to worry about octane ratings etc..

There is a rider though. If my usage was mostly within city, I would prefer a turbo petrol to the diesel as the torque isn't that usable in the city. Diesel torque is best enjoyed on the highway. My German Luxury car purchase is mostly for highway use. So diesel it is for me.

[dieselhead01]

Turbo diesels all the way. Like GTO sir mentioned once, “Germans make better diesels than petrols”. Turbo diesels have evolved and have also redefined the meaning of ‘diesel performance’ over the last few years. Yes, petrols are fun to drive, have a free revving nature, redlines to 7000 rpm, refinement levels are better, and that is pretty much compromised in the diesel. But diesels are fun to drive as well, in some cases even more fun than the petrol counterpart. The best part about diesels are, they’re FTD and at the same time, they don’t compromise on practicality.
Some of those real world cases, where the turbo diesel outshines the turbo petrol counterpart:

530d vs 530i: 248hp and 350nm of torque makes the 530i a compelling car to drive, and is pretty quick too, reaching the ton in 6.1 seconds, and has a free revving unit under it’s hood. Even after the 30i’s being downsized from a 6 pot to a 4 pot, the car manages to live up to it’s name, and delivers great performance. But anyone who tells you that 530i is as good as to drive as the 530d or better, hasn’t been behind the wheel of the 30d or hasn’t pushed that throttle. Once that throttle is pushed, all the 620nm scares you at once, the acceleration is so brutal, and the way the car picks up speeds is unbelievable. It’s 0.4 seconds faster than 30i to hit the ton (5.7 seconds) but the difference becomes bigger as it starts building higher speeds. The car reaches 200 kmph+ speeds like it’s nothing, and reaches there considerably faster than the 30i, and one can notice the superiority of the great 6 cylinder engine on the road, if both are driven back to back.

A200 vs A200d: Not denying the A200 is a good performer and provides decent performance, but offering a 1.3 L petrol engine at that price and segment was quite a downplay by Mercedes. 163 hp and 250nm are good figures and on the road it’s performance is translated to a healthy 8.5 seconds from 0-100 kmph. But being honest, I felt my 2019 Octavia 2.0 TDI DSG (when it was stock, 141 hp & 320 nm) to be more fun to drive than this car. But after getting behind the wheel of the diesel A200d (150 hp, 320nm), the difference in performance is quite evident, 0-100 kmph is dismissed in less than 7.7 seconds, and the car shoots forward, packing a nice punch. The car feels stronger and more effortless than the petrol due to the extra 70 nm torque and an engine with a bigger displacement (2L vs 1.3L), although lesser refined than the petrol, I feel the diesel is a better driver’s car.

C200 vs C220d: Similarly, at this price point and segment, the C class petrol could’ve been offered with a bigger engine, and not a 1.5 L engine (204 hp, 300nm). The diesel C220d felt much stronger when driven and that’s translates to making it almost 0.9 second quicker to the ton than the C200 (6.9 vs 7.8).

All of this combined with practicality; more fuel efficiency, better highway range, more robust and doesn’t depend on the quality of the fuel used, make the diesels a more compelling choice.