[Adam]

MSIL isn’t vulnerable yet in my opinion but is having an extremely slow approach toward adopting newer technologies and trends. Also knowing some of their upcoming lineups such as all new Alto, New gen Celerio, new Eeco and many more, we can be sure that MSIL’s main effort is on making more and more small cars under 10 Lakh and they are well aware that all these cars will sell well.

In long run, unless and until they change their strategy and adopt new technology they will shrink prominently into A and B segment, in most other markets Suzuki neither have volume nor the model lineup as much as in India.

BUT!! If they adopt some new technology and even move to EV, as much as I hate to admit, MSIL is one and only company in India that can bring a drastic technology shift in India, just imagine if they launch an electric car with 300 Kms + Range and charging networks to compliment the same. Their service networks and peoples trust on them is unmatchable, even after multiple crash test failures people still go for them

[su1978]

Originally Posted by saikarthik

I was about to start a thread about the recent experience on service. The cost of ownership is quite too high. I had to spend 12k for service of my (12 yr old but well maintained) Zen estillo.
They always start with lower estimate and add some repairs which are quite not required. In past 3 years they have siphoned 40k from me. Every time they come up with something different, last time they filled synthetic oil which I didn't ask for, this time for some additional accessories that was added to bill without my permission (had a fight).

It's a big menace with a big dealership network but poor quality of work and greed.

Their profitability is also less (in %), compared to other companies..

This is exactly what i also feel and have been harping in many of my posts. But somehow the pundits have turned it down on some pretext or the other. I recently sold my Maruti Ritz VDI 2011 due to the draconian 10 year rule for diesel vehicles in Delhi/Ncr. Being the first generation Diesel, it was a gem to drive but the service charges were always on the higher side. I used to pay 10000 rupees for every 10000 kilometers that i drove the vehicle. Recently when i was finalizing on my new purchase, i tried the new swift, Baleno and Ignis. But the build quality seemed so weak. Although the petrol engines were the smoothest of the lot but the build quality got me worried. And also the service charges were really bothering for me. Hence i went with a Ford Freestyle 1.2L Titanium+. The ride quality, safety, steering response, body roll and Comfort were far superior.

They have been giving some really weird reasons to the buyers to own one. They are thriving because of the service setup they have created all these years. Their own expertise at making some good engines is almost nil. All these years they have not been able to develop their own diesel mill after fiat did not upgrade their 1.3 DDiS to meet BS-VI norms. But with Toyota at their side now, probably they would do some negotiation with Toyota to somehow use their D4D technology to power its cars.

[knrn]

Aha. An engaging and intellectually challenging thread. Very vast variety of opinions and very thoughtful.

Many thoughts that came to my mind have been mentioned hence I will not repeat but will add.

I agree with a learned member's post that Maruti has a threat but not vulnerable.

Reason- as already mentioned- the vastest portfolio in the sub 10 lac segment. If one goes to a Maruti showroom one can actually end up spending more and buying a higher product. I ended up narrowing on the s cross.

True they are like Parle g. Their main concern is the bread and butter petrol engine. City cars and runabouts is where they excel. And this is their strength.

I was googling rather youtubing the s cross.

The European and international markets get - hold on to your breath- 4 wheel drive, hybrid, 140 bhp, 6 speed turbo petrols s cross with 17 inch wheels. 0-100 time of less than 9 seconds. Try to beat that. But then it costs the equivalent of 21 lacs on road. ( 21535 pounds in England to be precise). Now Maruti won't bring that here because then it will lose the vfm tag. The point is that they have good products but they are happy catering to the remaining 100 crores and hence the Parle g synchrony. It is the market demand that plays on their mind.

They could have worked on diesel but simply were too compalacent to develop it to BS6 standards.

The company simply is content in selling the bread and butter models and hence thinks that it need not bring in any advanved tech. So yes. As long as they have this tap on the minds of an average joe- they can get away with it. It is only us that may be overthink and over demand too much of them.

So they may not be as vulnerable as we think.

[gururajrv]

It’s clear now to MSIL it was Diesel that got their new cars running - both in terms of passenger and cab fleet. But the weak structure was masked all these years by their mileage funda. However, that strategy won’t work any more for them.

They need to bring in fresh models, strong engines both in terms of diesel and turbo petrols to tickle the senses of enthusiasts. Not to forget safety front that’s now the way forward.

[niranjanprabhu]

Despite all points mentioned there being true, the reality is that for a huge number of first and second-time buyers, Maruti is a safe refuge.

In the Sub 10 Lakh segment, Maruti has almost 2/3 rds of the market or more. Its a very telling statement given the fact that its hold and grip on this segment is only getting stronger over the years.



Where is the challenge? Its in the 10-15 lakh segment and in the higher segments where they simply DONT have a presence



What is the way forward?
1. Maruti has been a leading light (for good or for bad) to other players in the market, and for once now, they need to look at Hyundai-Kia for guidance on how to be bold and up the game in the 10+ lakh segments
2. Bring in the 1.0 and 1.4 liter turbo charged petrols apart from the diesel in a higher power band. 95 BHP is not bad but looks bad when compared to Hyundai's 115 BHP diesel
3. Expand the use of the CVT that is currently available ONLY in the Baleno. The CIAZ and Ertiga deserve better than a 1980s designed Aisin 4 speed Torque Converter.
4. Work on safety features and build quality. The internet is rife with pictures of Maruti cars that have been totaled. Maybe very unfair but then with the Tatas and the Mahindras upping the game at NCAP, getting 0 stars does not help your cause.
5. Don't get caught up with price points in your flagship car the S-Cross. Equip it with a range of engines and gearboxes and demand a price for what customers pick. Give customers the choice. Drop the policy of having automatics only from the second-highest trims. FORTUNE FAVORS THE BRAVE. Show that much needed boldness

[steadfast]

I have not read all comments in detail for this thread so, not sure if someone has mentioned this already.

This is the Nokia moment for Maruti!!

Maruti is very much doing what Nokia did to save itself but then Apple and Samsung took the game leaps ahead and then Nokia collapsed. So if right steps are not taken, Maruti will repeat the history of Nokia though at a slower rate as cars are costlier and have a replacement cycle longer than mobile phones.

[damodar]

Wow so as per Maruti passing the 56kmph offset test is as per European norms, would love to know which European nations still conduct crash tests at those speeds. The world has moved on to 65kmph offset test as the minimum. Listen to him in the video at 13:40.

https://youtu.be/zuBOnClpzB0

[TorqueIndia]

Originally Posted by damodar

The world has moved on to 65kmph offset test as the minimum. Listen to him in the video at 13:40.

https://Youtu.be/zuBOnClpzB0

Don't miss the details on BS6 Phase 2 coming in 2023 and developments at Maruti. Hints that they would come out with a diesel powertrain only post 2023 , it's a critical emission milestone as it gets tougher with real world emission regulations.

Also he just ruled out any chance of introducing Jimny 3 door for India , contrary to the updates regarding some production units today. They are just sitting and alluring the Thar sales. Thumbs up.

When asked about EVs he spoke about CNG & Hybrids though.

[Mustang Sammy]

Originally Posted by niranjanprabhu

5. Don't get caught up with price points in your flagship car the S-Cross. Equip it with a range of engines and gearboxes and demand a price for what customers pick. Give customers the choice. Drop the policy of having automatics only from the second-highest trims. FORTUNE FAVORS THE BRAVE. Show that much needed boldness

Couldn’t agree more.
I ended up getting the S-Cross petrol for a variety of reasons, but if I had to pay extra for a 6-speed AT, more power and AWD, I would have gladly done so.

Originally Posted by knrn

I was googling rather Youtubing the s cross.

The European and international markets get - hold on to your breath- 4 wheel drive, hybrid, 140 bhp, 6 speed turbo petrols s cross with 17 inch wheels. 0-100 time of less than 9 seconds. Try to beat that. But then it costs the equivalent of 21 lacs on road. ( 21535 pounds in England to be precise). Now Maruti won't bring that here because then it will lose the vfm tag.

Let the customer choose. Launch higher spec’d versions of your flagship product. The S-cross would be a great enthusiast car if it came with more power and AWD.
Koreans have nailed it with the number of options they offer for their vehicles (in part by confusing the customer, but that’s a different story).

[GeeTee TSI]

More than their products being bad, MSIL is vulnerable to missing changing tastes of the average Indian customer (its core market) and the Indian Automotive market maturing (hopefully)

Due to the restrictions and peculiarities of our earlier closed market, MSIL had both a headstart and an advantage, it will still take some years for the market to even out with a few top players instead of the skewed 51% market share MSIL currently enjoys.

Once customers of a mature market expect 'world-class' rather than 'made for India' within each segment and price point, that is where the lackluster technology and conspicuous lack of safety performance will render MSIL at risk

[ScorpioYadav]

One segment which MSIL has totally ignored is the compact sedan taxis doing inter-city/state service. With the introduction of BS6 sounded a death knell for their DDiS engine on the Dzire, the taxi operators were robbed of a very potent option for the C-Sedan Diesel Taxi. Considering that even the Etios died with BS4, there is currently a very big void in the industry which no company is currently catering to.
This, I think, is where Maruti has committed a folly as it has certainly affected nos. in other segments too.

Since Toyota’s name has sprung up a no. of times in this thread, I would like to point out that they have in India, only catered to the taxi segment & the filthy rich customers, segments where their products have been best-sellers but what about the B & C Segments of the industry ?? Their only offerings, Etios & Liva also ended up catering to the sedan taxi segment. Yaris became a failure due to non-availability of a diesel power train. They also like Maruti, seem content in selling products in their established segments & not provide options where other companies are maximising their sales. Why don’t they offer Rush & CH-R to Indian consumers? Infact their offerings in the Pakistani market are better than what is being offered to us. Come to think of it, they don’t even have a competitor for the Honda City in India !!

[Contrapunto]

Originally Posted by AutoNoob

Very compelling article, probably hitting at the core issues at the market leader.

ET Auto

My Ertiga ZDI has been, by far, the least satisfying car ownership experience of my life ( I have owned six over the years). I can agree with all these points. The car is unreliable, parts failure rate is high (and unpredictable), service costs are expensive (large due to frequent need for parts replacements) and service quality is poor. I will NOT buy another Maruti till I am convinced they have changed.

It probably does not affect owners who run their car a couple of hundred Kms every month, but if you really use your car, its quite stark.

I have had a very satisfying experience of buy a pre-owned Innova (90,000 Km when I bought it) and driving it for another 120,000 Km before I sold it. And it costed way less than the Ertiga to maintain, and hardly ever failed me.

I hope the Toyota-Maruti partnership improves Maruti and does not kill Toyota as we know it. But Toyota in India is not Toyota in US. They are constrained by the limited capital and investment capacity of their partners, Kirloskar Motors. So my worry is not only we will not see Maruti improve, we will see Toyota brand die a slow agonising death.

I still hope not though...I really love Toyota cars...

Maruti is unfortunately stuck in a strategic cut-de-sac of their own making. They can't get volumes without cheap, compromised cars. And having bitten the poisoned apple of a stock market listing, it will take a brave CEO to convince the market that the stock market needs to content with a 1-2 years of turmoil if they want to see a stronger, more resilient Maruti.

[jkrishnakj]

The first car buyer still swings the Maruti way. That said, It won’t take time before someone captures that market too.

Besides the issues around the lack of a Diesel engine , the AT box and the lack of focus on EV’s that other members pointed out , I think they have to / they can and must quickly address two easy things.

1. Make sure their top management doesn’t speak anything that’s disregarding the customer. They have had a lot in the recent past
2. Focus on safety, they are now getting famous for the ‘Tin Can’ labels. I’m not saying they are , but the biker who wants to move up thinks this way.

[AutoNoob]

Originally Posted by niranjanprabhu

Where is the challenge? Its in the 10-15 lakh segment and in the higher segments where they simply DONT have a presence

Thanks for sharing the graphs. These reflect the true situation that Maruti lis loosing out on fat profit making models.

Not to nit-pick, but it seems there is some error in the 10~15L segment graph. Creta was launched in 2015, but Hyundai's share is not seen for years 2015~2018. Creta literally ruled the segment, till its sibling Seltos ate away its share.

Originally Posted by steadfast

I have not read all comments in detail for this thread so, not sure if someone has mentioned this already.

This is the Nokia moment for Maruti!!

Maruti is very much doing what Nokia did to save itself but then Apple and Samsung took the game leaps ahead and then Nokia collapsed. So if right steps are not taken, Maruti will repeat the history of Nokia though at a slower rate as cars are costlier and have a replacement cycle longer than mobile phones.

I have similar thoughts; and infact one more name flashes in my mind, Kodak.

Originally Posted by AutoNoob

Some of my friends call me paranoid when I share my thoughts (which are on these very similar lines) about a corporate which is too happy with their 'market share' and became complacent. Then I recall the famous Kodak & Nokia... Similarly, Maruti Suzuki might become a case study, if they don't do course correction at fast pace.

[niranjanprabhu]

Originally Posted by AutoNoob

Thanks for sharing the graphs. These reflect the true situation that Maruti lis loosing out on fat profit making models.

Not to nit-pick, but it seems there is some error in the 10~15L segment graph. Creta was launched in 2015, but Hyundai's share is not seen for years 2015~2018. Creta literally ruled the segment, till its sibling Seltos ate away its share.


I have similar thoughts; and infact one more name flashes in my mind, Kodak.

All model price bands have been taken at current value. yes Creta was in the 10-15 lakh range in 2015 when it was released. But today its in the 15-20 lakh range (Taking the median pricing