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-   -   Indian cars to avoid in the used market (https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian-car-scene/234064-indian-cars-avoid-used-market-3.html)

I'm about to help my relative get a used car. I was of the opinion that a Punto would be a great choice for him. Did you mean that Puntos and Lineas came with production defects? I'm curious of what you meant there.

Yes, the engine is good and reliable.

Do check out for PUNTO EVOs if he wants PUNTO only.
Like I mentioned, not all the Puntos are bad/good so I can't say whether the problems heard off are common for all Puntos. I have seen issues related to AC, Clutch (mainly Master cyl. & Sleeve cyl), Electrical issues & some part quality issues with the Punto. Maybe some Punto owners could throw in some lights on this.

But yes, cars like Punto/Polo/Vento/Jetta, etc. are all maintainable if supported by a good FNG but I won't recommend it to someone who is looking to get his first used car.

I think a used car buyer should always have a budget for maintenance and repair over and above the purchase of the car and then select the car accordingly.

Personally I would keep between 5-10% of the price ( price of a new car) over the buying price and immediately get all the work done to make it as close to new condition.

If you do not need such a high maintenance and the car is indeed really well maintained, consider the cash saved!!

For eg: Buying a 3 year old 10 lac Honda for say 5.5 lacs. I would keep min 50k- 80k for repairs and maintenance to bring it to new condition through the ASC or if you have a very trusted garage.

Call me the Devil's advocate if you want, but I have the following observations:
1. Many of Maruti's so-called FLOP cars are very good products: SX4, Old Baleno, S Cross 1.6. The same is true for some other cars such as Ford Mondeo (in the absence of competent FNG), Chevy SRV (taught us what a hot hatch means), Ford Fusion (forgotten hatch), Chevy Forester, Mitsubishi Cedia (budget pocket rocket) et al. So, I wouldn't discount em right away.
2. I'm definitely not averse to used VAG Cars: Skoda Superbs, Lauras, Audis. Yeah, the DQ200 is crap. My work-around: buy the manual.
A lot of people called me a buffoon for picking up a used Skoda Yeti 4x4 with 1,00,000 km on it. But I knew the car, had been through its service history and it checked my requirement of being able to go to my dad's native place where only Mahindra 4x4 dared tread. It has clocked 25,000km in 1.5 years, outshone the Mahindras in terrain management, and was worth the money, in my opinion. And I wouldn't mind buying a Mitsubishi 4x4 either.
3. I bought a 2010 Audi C6 V6 3.0 tfsi in 2020 with 35,000km on the odo. Checked if it had been underwater, if the odo had been tampered. Ran a full scan. It needed some wiring replacement, some cosmetic clean ups, and by God's grace and parents' blessings, its done 6,000km in 4months.

If we, as *Team BHPians*, don't go out with an open frame of mind and fairly evaluate a set of wheels for what it's worth, then who will!?! I'm not advocating buying crap cars, I'm just saying each car has its history & worth and we must be fair in evaluating it; if it serves the purpose and fits the budget, why not?
I've been bitten more times than I can count when it comes to cars, and my car buying & maintenance philosophy is an evolution of the same.

You've just poked a bee hive, @Eight Six.

All my cars this far have been pre-owned (the closest I came to buying new was a 7 month old Maruti Versa). In my view, no car is, on one extreme best avoided or, on the other extreme, worth looking at. A used car is about fulfilling a buyer's desire, something that makes him/her feel good. So I wouldn't label any car as best avoided.

Yes, personally, I have and will perhaps never venture close to a Porsche, BMW, Audi or a Mercedes, simply because I believe our climatic conditions just don't permit these cars to work flawlessly, and post warranty or service package, they can be quite expensive to maintain.

Buying a used car is all about :

1.Evaluation of the car and the seller - evaluate as well as one can, based on the papers, the As-Is state of the car and NOT service history. Tell tale signs can be spotted easily, and they tell a lot more about the car and the owner. In fact, wherever I've got to meet the seller, I give huge weightage to the interaction I've had.

2. Risk appetite - what is the price one pays if the choice backfires? Will one have the strength to take the hit? If yes, move forward.

3. Availability of service support- never, and I repeat, never depend on the manufacturer service support for a used car. Service centers are already flooded with vehicles and they are only happy to take up light jobs like routine service, OBD scans, rather than heavy duty work. Having a good FNG and a trusted supplier of good parts at the right prices is essential.

4. Josh - a used car buyer must have the time, interest, and josh to learn through the experiences, to look at retrofitting easily available parts, get technical info. and so on.

Well said, @GTO. I agree to the T on not buying launch year cars, especially with our 2 flagship in-house manufacturers. I fail to understand how a Maruti gets it right first time, most of the time, while these two never get it right first time.

Rightly said, @Dr.AD. One buys a car that fits one's requirements, and those which were launched without much fanfare, bombed.

Thank You, @V.Narayan for this point that I attach a lot of weight to.

True, @Iyencar. There is no "one size fits all" rule in used cars.

I have great respect for the older Hyundais built until 2010, but scant respect for the same cars post that period.My only grouse with older Hyundais, desi ones especially was body parts corrosion post 5 years. Older Getz, Accents, SantaFes, Tucsons are way better than, say, a 2017 Creta.

Yes, @Ehsan Joshi, but the second sentence can be classified as *Conditions Apply.:D

True @AMG Power. Competence is key here.

Thank You for this valid point @kiku007. We, and not the market, decide what works for us.

True, @Mannu.

True, @psagar, but only on cars that one is sure of having less headaches with.

Well said @Hayek. Depreciation disasters are the best to have but must be practical to keep too. Eg. no point having a Captiva and struggle with it. A Vitara can still be maintained, and will go on and on.

Good point @slamnos. Older Toyotas which are well kept never age. I can safely say that a 1,50,000km done 2009 Innova is better than a 40,000km done Xylo. No offense meant to the Xylo but I'm just drawing a comparison.

Also, people down south swear by Toyotas, and the market has some excellent examples that have done over 2,00,000km and are in super shape. Unfortunately, resale values are non - motivating !!

Again, @WhiteKnight, the #1 reason can vary from one person to the other, but for aspirational buyers, it is driving pleasure, and a feel good factor.

In my opinion, we cannot generalize a specific brand when it comes to used cars. I wouldn't buy the idea of completely avoiding VAG group cars. These are superiorly built and can last longer than Toyotas/Hondas if cared for. The challenge of reliability exists even for the new age Kias/ Hyundais. What I can think while buying a used car are as follows

• How long has the car been in the market, this is to ensure the availability of spares
• Location- a Fancy brand in a tier 2/3 city is not a wise idea
• Has the car been maintained properly? One of the most important factor to be considered. A well maintained Tata will definitely serve you better than a poorly maintained Honda.
• Avoid mechanically modified cars

And last, a technically inquisitive mind will definitely help you in arriving to the right car.

So True! Just a week back I got an opportunity to buy back the well-maintained Linea T-Jet that I sold in 2015. We have so many fond memories associated with it. But I let it pass as even regular parts like brake pads have weeks of waiting time. If not for Jeep Compass the Fiat service centers would have closed down. Compare that to Santro Xing, 2006 model, most of the parts are readily available & it gets well serviced by authorized Hyundai service centers.

Most bizarre post with dubious logic. The best used car is the one the buyer likes and the one that meets his or her needs and price. Starting with VAG group cars, I have purchased three used VAG cars in India. Two Jettas and one Passat. All three have proven to be super reliable with no issues at all. So how can one simply declare all VAG cars to be off limit? In fact due to such perception, VW Jetta is currently one of the best used cars one can buy. Similarly, I disagree with the logic that if a car wasn’t popular as new then it is a bad buy as used. In fact, such cars can provide the best value. Nissan Teana from the opening post is a wonderful car and I would have no hesitation in buying one.

I thought the Audi A4's with the CVT boxes were bullet-proof and reliable. Say the 2016 and later cars with the updated 177bhp diesel engines. No?

Well, having used my fair share of used cars and helped friends with their purchases - a few points that I would like to make
1- Never go with a brand and make in mind while making a used car purchase - go with a general category. Many times you can get excellent gems if you don’t have a mind made up for one car only. This also helps when you negotiate. If you go with a MS Swift Zxi in mind and you see a brilliant well kept i20 check it out - you might even spend less to buy!
2 - if it’s too good to be true - it probably is. Check key points of the car, e.g. an Odo showing 60k kms - check the footwell - if you see worn out carpet near the acc pedal - it is probably done a lot more! If it a TC car - check for blow off sound, and always - do a rev test with the bonnet open any sounds out of the ordinary is not good
3 - always keep a Margin for initial upkeep and long term upkeep - I generally factor 20% of purchase price for first year expense and buy cars likewise - eg. if your budget is 10L - buy a car for 8 or 8.5 L (age, kms etc) a car which has done 60k plus kms on Indian roads will need suspension work / repair, tyres, battery, clutch (depending upon prev owner), and running repairs. If you spend less than your budget at the end of the first year - keep that money and add the same amount for 2nd year. Also helps with insurance etc without making you feel bad.
4 - Don’t fall for the old Toyota scam - buying a 1.5lakh run car for almost the same price of a new car from a different manufacturer is crazy. An in warranty car will give you peace of mind and a 1.5 lakh run Innova will have a myriad of parts that will need replacing to make it to the 2l mark. Yes there are good examples of them making it to 2l but have you considered the expense sheet? Also parts are not inexpensive and a repair bill can break your back.
I generally will try to buy a car which has done less than 70k (petrol NA), 50k (turbo petrol), 80k (Diesel) in terms of actual kms. I look for cars with full service history and insurance history where possible.
My experience - Skoda Superb Tdi 6Spd DSG (served me for 45000 kms! 81k to 127k), Tata Sumo (1 lakh kms up - bought at about 60k kms), Mitsubishi Lancer - Bought at 75k kms - sold at 95k kms, Skoda Octavia 1st Gen Tdi - 90k kms - scrapped at 1.4L after a crash (had loaned it to a friend), Tata Nano (2) both manuals - serving our business as pick and drop cars.

Everyones experience and perceptions are different. I bought a pre-worshipped Fiat Linea Multijet and used it for 7 years. No niggles, no breakdowns, no service hassles. Sold it back at 50% of my purchase price. Was a true gem of a car for its handling and drive comfort during highway rides. When I sold it to the current owner with 80k on the odo, there was not a single rattle in the car. Would recommend going for a Fiat any day as long as it has been maintained well.

I believe this is the most misleading thread on the forum right now. It talks about brands or cars but never the specifics. Considering the traffic team bhp has, it’s best the mods take it down. It’s doing 0 value addition. Basically the OP wants everyone to buy a Maruti or Hyundai. That’s not how it works. One should buy a pre-owned car based on their appetite.

1. You spoke about just one Nissan product. I agree the xtrail and teanna weren’t the easiest with respect to sourcing parts. But a used Micra CVT from the same stable makes a strong case.

2. Anything from the VW group? I have a 160k kms done Laura which was bought from a bhpian when it had 122k kms. Apart from running repairs with respect to AC, everything is good to go even today. There are tons of them around who buy used VAGs and are extremely happy. If you had specifically said avoid anything with a DQ200 then it may have made some sense but avoiding VAGs in general. Lol.

3. Avoid Toyota Innova and Fortuner? These cars sell for a reason and retain their value. The peace of mind, robustness and comfort(in case of the Innova) offered by these two cars is unmatched. I have the appetite to pick a used Pajero Sport or endeavour instead of a fortuner but not everyone does. They want a simple ownership experience and Incase of the Innova I would simply buy a new car or pick up a used Innova, no alternatives will be considered whatsoever.

4. Avoiding flop cars? If no one wants it new who would want it used? Actually it’s a good thing that you have put this up and there are many like me who would pick up the Figo over the Swift, Etios over the Dzire, Ritz over the i10, Scross over the Creta, Jazz over the i20 & vento/Rapid over the Verna. Because we as enthusiasts understand the reasons for something not making good numbers in the market but does it necessarily have to be bad? Well good luck buying expensive Dzires, swifts, citys, i20s.etc. Because they are good cars apparently as everyone is buying them.rl:

The least OP could have done is tried to get an experience visiting or analysing the used car market. With such threads getting approved, I am not surprised with the comments on the team bhp fb page.

Sometimes, emotions take over everything, a well informed heavily risk averse dear friend of mine took the plunge when he did not need to! (To be fair, I encouraged him!!!) He crossed the line on the above three points

Emotion trumps everything!! But YOLO!

Excellent thread!

For someone who has made the choice of buying not so popular cars as stated by the OP, there are couple of things that I look at before taking a plunge.

I have happily bought a used Grand Vitara (2.0 MT 2007) and a Mitsubishi Outlander (2010) with almost 90k+ on the odo.

1. Both cars are 1st owners before the purchase
2. Both had service history & before purchase a thorough check-up from a trusted FNG

I look at the whole deal as a risk vs reward equation. Most of these type of cars are quite inexpensive due to poor popularity. True, they may have poor A.S.S, but some things to keep in mind that help with the rewards aspect:

1. How well are you connected with an FNG and the spare parts eco system? - in my case, Maruti would arrange for parts & so do Mitsubishi after market dealers (find a reliable one).
   
2. Is the car going to be a daily driver or weekend fun? In my case, over a period of a year, I typically get the feel of the reliability of the car and hence have been fortunate enough to take both the cars out on multiple outstation trips without issues.
   https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-...-vitara-2.html
   
   
3. Lastly, what is the value you are paying for the experience? Both the cars in my garage currently offer something unique - a heart over mind experience & an affordability to indulge without breaking the bank

The risks are obvious, as with any purchase - huge repairs bills if you get the inspection wrong, odo tampering, lack of service & support, eventual heartburn.

A simile into the discussion - a used car is like taking in a stray vs. buying a new dog. Some might have come from abused, abandoned homes and will take a lot of time, effort and money to adjust to the new family, while a new one will always be groomed as per your requirements.

I’d gladly add the Honda CR-V to this list. I search for used cars once in every two weeks as a hobby. Most of the new CR-V’s were very pricey for a used car and had high odometer readings, while the older cars looked really abused. Unless and until you have a golden tooth, ending up with a clean CR-V is something that is hihly unlikely.