[Nav-i-gator]

Originally Posted by Kosfactor

Regardless of origin - Make the damn thing in India - All of it or as much of it as possible. 90% Made in India or increase taxes on such vehicles.

That is the most sensible thing to do. I have been advocating this for long. If we manufacture in India, with raw materials sourced locally, the end product is as Indian as it can get.

[M00M]

Have decided never to buy a chinese brand. regardless of what anyone else says or thinks and regardless of whether they make in India or import it. so all the MG, Great wall etc. are out. Also i believe in reliability and safety over gadgets and features and thats where half of these products will fail.

[mvadg]

Wow! This is like trying to understand human behavior in a nutshell.

Humans are so complex and like many studies have shown, people are irrational. Nations and their leaders (and their people) have spent a lot of time, effort and money to build their image. Behind the carefully built facade may lie unsavory truths, but we humans love to make effortless decisions based on "gut feel" - the images of "great engineering", "reliability", "ingenuity" have been drilled into our heads and hearts by clever messages over the years.

Truth is, automobiles are a global product. This is something every manufacturer tries to hide. There are now just a handful of car manufacturers in the world. Like clothes that are worn largely to impress others, I would buy a car whose branding rubs off on me and enhances my brand. The car manufacturer is doing the same thing by associating it's product with the brand of a nation and deriving maximum mileage out of it.

If I see my nation's leader talk about "atmanirbhar" on one hand and then see him being driven around in a German BMW, it obviously doesn't do much for my nation's brand equity and by extension anything produced in my country. But then, I don't have a high enough regard for any politicians to be influenced by their behavior.

Yes, I do care about the brand, all else being equal, I would pick a brand and a country that I feel represents the idea of me best to a random observer who sees me with my car. It is also a powerful message to people who know me.

As of today, China is not a popular country to be associated with and unless I wish to signal something specific and my brand equity can overpower the negative branding related to China, I would stay away. I would think about buying a Chinese EV though, if I could signal that I'm serving my fellow humans by polluting less.

[EightSix]

My thread couldn’t have come at a better time. Today was the Škoda Kushaq unveil. See what I meant in the OP?



Carmakers are going the extra mile and marketing their cars based on the country of origin.

[libranof1987]

This is reminiscent of our country's anti-neighbor sentiment after recent border skirmishes.

I think I'm pretty agnostic about country of origin: if I like the product, I'll buy it. My current stable has cars that have parents from: India, America, Japan, Korea, Germany.

Originally Posted by Gansan

I will not buy automobiles originating from certain countries. China is top on the list. MG Rover being British is the biggest joke

If you truly want to avoid something made in that country, you'd be bereft of choices. Not just us, the world over. They have the most manufacturing of most products (across industries).

[Gansan]

^^ I may buy some other products from them. The reply was about automobiles. In my opinion, as of now, they are worthless.

[Kosfactor]

I was talking to someone who designs bits inside the engine - so this German company is asking Indian company to design the forging so that it can be manufactured in China

Apparently China is better at it than once the center of the world`s engineering achievements - Europe, what a bunch of losers. We will also reach that stage if we do not levy tariff on imported bits strategically , as is China is our biggest import partner, we are already far behind in this game.

[V.Narayan]

This question will have as many answers as there are buyers of cars. And each will be right in their own way. Here I would like to raise a deeper question as to which country does a brand really belong to?

What makes a corporate a foreign company and what makes it an Indian company? By extension what is perceived as a foreign brand and what as an Indian brand? And what about the fact that all, if they manufacture in India at least partly from the raw material stage are contributing to employment, taxes and flow down impact of economic activity.

If it is ownership then 40% of M&M is held by FIIs and FPIs* and only 18% by the original promoter family. It did start out as an Indian brand and Anand Mahindra de facto still controls the Board. It is viewed rightfully so as an Indian brand. But bear in mind 40% of the shareholder voting power is foreign. In comparison 80% of Maruti Suzuki is foreign owned. Period. Would we consider it an Indian brand or a foreign one. Do most buyers believe/perceive they are buying India's top selling car brand or do they think they are paying for the profits of the Japanese. Let's make things more complicated - Volvo - Swedish origins, Swedish management but full financial ownership with Chinese now. When we buy a Volvo do we look at its Swedish heritage or its Chinese ownership. Amongst our car companies only Tata Motors can count as truly Indian with 46% promoter holding and only 14% foreign holding. Is Rolls Royce a British brand or a German one?

In the 1950s and till the 1980s, as we remained a closed economy, the line of demarcation between foreign and Indian was quite clear due to limitations imposed by archaic regulations. No longer. We live in a globally integrated economy. Brands do have perceptions but the actual physical product is an amalgam of parts, design & research from many countries. I am no flag bearer for China but boycotting China is a bit like chopping your nose to spite your face. Then we should not buy any Apple product, any Lois Vuitton product, most non-Korean cellphones, almost any brand of white goods -- they all have parts from China.

To each his own. Perceptions are important. It is not what you actually buy but what you think you are buying - the image, the positioning, the heritage, the bragging rights.


*Foreign Investment Institutions & Foreign Portfolio Investors

[Hayek]

Do buyers care about the country of origin of a car? Very often yes! While making a complex but expensive purchase like a car, most people are not capable of making an objective decision - and hence resort to heuristics to simplify the decision making process, one of which is the Brand Image, which is intrinsically linked to nationality.

Back in the 1990s, GM came to India with the Opel brand - and played up the German engineering behind the car (and ignored the fact that the brand had been owned by an American company since 1929.) After people felt Opel was too expensive, they shifted to all American, mass market Chevrolet - even if their products included a Japanese SUV (the Chevrolet nee Subaru Forester), a Japanese MUV built for Emerging Asia (the Chevrolet Tavera nee Isuzu Panther) and a Korean sedan (the Chevrolet Optra nee Daewoo Nubira). The strategy fell apart when they extended the Americanness to Chinese hatchbacks (the SAIC - Chevrolet Sail). But overall, positioning GM cars as German made sense in the 1990s, when US made cars were seen as poor quality, and shifting to the American label made sense when GM realised that German vehicles were seen as expensive to buy and maintain in India.

But these perceptions can change when faced with facts. When we were shopping for a car to replace our Zen, my wife was very reluctant to buy the Korean Getz instead of the Japanese Swift - but today, Hyundai and Kia are at a premium to Maruti, I scoffed at the Czech Skoda before buying it instead of the Accord - and while buying my Tiguan, I considered Korean, Italian American, and Chinese British products seriously - but the Japanese products were ruled out upfront as too boring.

[AMG Power]

Choose your poison:

Japan - Reliability

Korea - VFM

German - Build Quality + driving pleasure + brand equity

American - Depends on the brand and the car - Eg: Ford / Chevrolet and their differing +’s and -‘s

France - Build quality + Brand quirks

China - VFM with hidden rip offs

India - Misplaced Patriotism

[Doo_Dev]

The country of origin is an ambiguous term and how we define is critical.

Can we call it Made in India
* If the vehicle is engineered completely outside India and manufactured inside India
* If the vehicle is engineered and manufactured inside India
* If the vehicle is engineered outside India but assembled in India

For me , country of origin means how well the vehicle is engineered for a specific market (Made for India) and would consider only when

1. Doesn't pretend to be someone else ( I don't have issue in SAIC selling MG cars if they are engineered in UK . But rebadging an existing Chinese vehicle from their portfolio is not acceptable.)

2. Engineer the automobile for India as target . Several examples from Hyundai , Renault , Ford etc.,

3. Don't sell a watered down vehicle in India while selling a better spec vehicle globally ( many examples from Suzuki).

[asit.kulkarni93]

I normally don’t get bothered by the country of origin but when it comes to Chinese cars especially MG, I have major issues. They are trying to show themselves as British but one look at their pathetic products and one is assured of their Chinese origin.

I am fine with most Japanese brands except maybe Nissan india but that’s specific to India otherwise Nissan has some amazing products. European vehicles have been a favourite especially Germans so no complaints there. I have never been a big fan of American products maybe barring certain Ford cars. Indian brands like TVS have my immense respect but not Bajaj or Tata or Mahindra. They can’t get their basics around quality right even in 2021. Tata has come a long way ahead but still has a long way to go to enhance the ownership experience. I have 0 hopes from Bajaj as Rajiv Bajaj is just busy pointing out issues but not working on quality of their own products.

[Balaji31582]

To me, it's more about affordability to buy and maintain with "Q" Promise (an Etios owner, you see ).

For me, most of the times it will end up with Japanese because of the requirement I mentioned. I kind of started getting a notion that Skoda could also be affordable to maintain given their additional warranty, service package and other maintenance related customer policies. So it's certainly not the country but the brand itself. The main reason for me to have this consideration of affordable maintenance is that my first car was a chevy, that too an entry level car (Beat diesel). But it burned my pockets with lack of quality in parts, maintenance costs. I have to think about only this factor with quality in mind when I went for my second purchase (Etios). Also Etios did score 4 stars beginning 2016. Adding to this, I influenced my brother to buy Honda City when his Eon got submerged in chennai floods. Had any other brands could have given me that confidence I would surely went for it.

A different note on China, just my personal opinion, they are known for low cost and not so good quality. Sorry to deviate a little bit OT. I love how the CFMoto (Chinese) bike looks but I still wouldn't go for it because I always have a suspicion about the existence and quality of parts. To me a Royal enfield or a Bajaj is better to own as anytime I can source the parts and if required can have a reliable mechanic fix it using a local lathe. For me, Patriotism could not just be applied for purchase of your commuter but it should be the way of life including everything you do towards the society.

[Sanidhya mukund]

Originally Posted by Researcher

Attachment 2133983

The Harrier has its automatic gearbox from Hyundai (Korean) and sunroof from China ("Be Vocal for Local" and its impact on the sales of Indian car manufacturers).

Not only this, the Harrier has its engine from Fiat, platform from Ford/Land Rover and if I remember correctly, has significant inputs from Tatas research labs around the globe.

If we look at most cars that are fully built in India (I.e the ones that are not CBU or CKD), you are likely to find at least 80% local content in most cars. The body panels etc are stamped, welded and painted within India, the steel is sourced locally in most cases, things like headlights, tyres and small ancillary parts are all made in India. Most manufacturers also build their engines locally. However, a few things like audio systems, ECMs and even automatic gearboxes are mostly imported from elsewhere.

My CKD car which was assembled in Pune has most of its parts made in France/Germany, but there are quite a few things with the “made in China” sticker.

[jigar1791@gmail]

I see a lot of anti-China sentiments on this forum, and the rhetoric most of us, Indians, have during these times.

However, if we look at the data, MG almost saw a 20% rise in their February '21 sales (~4300 units) vis-a-vis January figures (~3600 dispatches).

Moreover, our patriotic sentiments are at an all time high since the 2020 military standoff in Ladakh, and ironically, China was the largest trading partner of India's.
Source - https://www.timesnownews.com/busines...US%20and%20UAE. And the balance of trade is heavily inclined towards China.

The fact remains, certain industries are heavily China dependent in terms of raw materials, synthetics, machinery, and so on..

While I favor reducing our reliance on Chinese goods, IMO, China cannot be discarded as the shopfloor of the world. There are no substitutes to Chinese products (be in any form - raw materials, finished goods, etc) and certain sectors of the Indian economy are still, and will be, China dependent, atleast in the near future.

@Mods - please move this post to elsewhere if there's no relevance found w.r.to the ongoing discussion in the thread.

Regards,
Jigar Shah