[Ford Rocam]

Exactly, before Modding i have driven my honda in 1.3L trim & found it acceptable, had done proper wheel alignment (front & rear) & balancing thats it, & after modding the first thing i changed was suspension got slightly stiffened & lowered from rear about 1.25inch & 0.5inch in front, the results well ask any body who has driven my car, nitorxx during daman trip & even you Psycho you have driven it. Hondas have rear wheel alignment too which contributes to the handling of the car. correct me if i am wrong.

[Psycho]

Originally Posted by Shan2nu

So, you're planning on racing a 2ltr engine in the 1451-1650cc class? Looking forward to that.

Hey shan I am not that nuts and that signature is just to define how F1 tech evolved, please lets not get personal.

And yes the vtec is great and so are the other cars and I hope it helps you all to put an end to this topic as each time the VTEC comes up there have to be heated discussions.

Rocam, very truly said but does not necessarily need to be lowered with the right setup and taking care of the rear damping and rebound the honda's are a dream to drive excepting for the low end torque, and love your signature.

[amitoj]

Originally Posted by Shan2nu

The only 2 people who've complained of this in their Vtecs, are Ajmat and Wolf and as it turns out, both of them have had their suspension replaced recently (after it went bust).

So, how can v be sure that it wasn't the weak suspension that caused the handling issues.

Shan2nu

That makes it 2 out of 3 people for me who have had that complaint. Maybe urs is an exception!

Anyways, even if it was weak suspension, it would still give bad credit to the car's handling ability. If not, then my 98 zen with 1L kms had superb handling... never mind that totally shot suspension!!

[Shan2nu]

Hey shan I am not that nuts and that signature is just to define how F1 tech evolved, please lets not get personal.

Hey, you yorself said that it was a clue. So, i thought you were planning something with a 2ltr engine.

Hondas have rear wheel alignment too which contributes to the handling of the car. correct me if i am wrong.

Yup they do, the car company reccomends a slight "toe-in" at the rear. I use slight "toe-out" at the front though. Helps the car enter corners a lil faster.

Shan2nu

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by amitoj

That makes it 2 out of 3 people for me who have had that complaint. Maybe urs is an exception

Hey Amitoj, keep me out of the count as once I got my rear suspension replaced my car started to handle like a gem...I did take my words about the rear giving out back on one of the threads...My track day is a testimony to that good rear suspension.

Originally Posted by amitoj

Anyways, even if it was weak suspension, it would still give bad credit to the car's handling ability. If not, then my 98 zen with 1L kms had superb handling... never mind that totally shot suspension!!

1sec...A car that has a boot to tow needs great suspension to feel right, even a little suspension damage will really show up magnified...hence I guess it aint comparable with the zen which is lighter, smaller and doesnt have a boot. Morover 98 carb zen which will barely do a top speed of ~120kmph(just considering upper limit of realistic speed) is no comparison to a car which blast away at 150kmph in 3rd gear and 210kmph(mine does more!!!) given a little space and time!!!

[devarshi84]

But lets not forget that the vtec looses the 1.5 's good low-mid range performance.

A Lancer performs equally well all over the engine range. At extreme limits, its not the cars power that helps the car stay put but the handling of the car.


As it is rightly said " A vtec needs a special driver to push it to the limits, while A lancer pushes itself to the limits and makes the driver special"

[amitoj]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

Hey Amitoj, keep me out of the count as once I got my rear suspension replaced my car started to handle like a gem...I did take my words about the rear giving out back on one of the threads...My track day is a testimony to that good rear suspension.

Originally Posted by The Wolf

1sec...A car that has a boot to tow needs great suspension to feel right

So u agree that OHCs have shoddy stock suspension? Given that u urself had to get it changed...

Originally Posted by The Wolf

Morover 98 carb zen which will barely do a top speed of ~120kmph(just considering upper limit of realistic speed) is no comparison to a car which blast away at 150kmph in 3rd gear and 210kmph(mine does more!!!) given a little space and time!!!

U seem to have completely missed my point and misinterpreted my post.

Let me see if i can make it a little more clear for your benefit.

I am NOT comparing a zen with a vtec. See if u can get this.... my point was about a car's handling ability vis a vis its suspension. Got it?

Amitoj
PS:

Originally Posted by The Wolf

given a little space and time

ROFL... given "a little space and time" my 98 zen (when it was in stock condition, suspension included), with 1L on the odo, used to cross 140s on the speedo!! Jus FYI.

[v1p3r]

Yeah, the OHCs have a very nervous rear above 130 kmph. Or so I felt.

Isn't the Vtec limited to 185 in 5th by the ECU?

Originally Posted by amitoj

... used to cross 140s on the speedo!! Jus FYI.

You are lying. I have driven your 1l setup to over 150 in 3rd, if I remember right.

[amitoj]

Originally Posted by v1p3r

You are lying. I have driven your 1l setup to over 150 in 3rd, if I remember right.

Haan but when u drove it, it wasnt stock any more as it had a different cam in it then. Before that, it used to manage to just cross 140, given enough space and time....

[manson]

my top whacks without feeling unstable, scary or whatever:

stock mpfi zen: 160 kmph (steering slightly jittery again)
stock carb zen: 150 kmph (steering slightly jittery again)
honda ohc 1.5: 188 kmph (not one bit scary, infact realised a 188 only when i was checking the snaps i had clicked)


my thoughts:
stock ohc (1.5/vtec) are much better off than stock lancers/balenos
stock lancer handles much better than the ohc s
baleno is a better car of the three (lancer, ohc 1.5/vtec and baleno) for city driving considering you have traffic in your city and don't live on the highways but loses out on the so damn subjective looks and oomph factor.

manson.

i'm getting sick of the ohc and baleno being discussed over and over again, same things said in different words!!

[ajmat]

Originally Posted by amitoj

Before that, it used to manage to just cross 140, given enough space and time....

I second that with my previous Zen

[devarshi84]

Originally Posted by manson

my thoughts:
stock ohc (1.5/vtec) are much better off than stock lancers/balenos
stock lancer handles much better than the ohc s
baleno is a better car of the three (lancer, ohc 1.5/vtec and baleno) for city driving considering you have traffic in your city and don't live on the highways but loses out on the so damn subjective looks and oomph factor.

manson.

Stock OHC engines are better off than baleno and lancer would be the right words.
A vtec has an advantage coz HM was stupid enough to not bring in the MIVEC.
A baleno WHile many find a good car, I will just say its good vFM from maruti.

In city I will still rate lancer above baleno and NHC. Be realistic and Look at the higher and flatter torque curve from that smoothest and most refined engine compared to the baleno's engine. Baleno's engine is a good free-revving aluminium gem which defined performance but Lancer holds of better any day in city driving.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by amitoj

So u agree that OHCs have shoddy stock suspension? Given that u urself had to get it changed....

I wouldnt agree or disagree with that as out of few dosen OHCs Ive known only Ajmat's and mine went bust...Mine I doubt was coz of my prevoius owner, God knows what he did in coorg!!! But yes I had to change them.

Originally Posted by amitoj

U seem to have completely missed my point and misinterpreted my post.
Let me see if i can make it a little more clear for your benefit.
am NOT comparing a zen with a vtec. See if u can get this.... my point was about a car's handling ability vis a vis its suspension. Got it?.

Thanks for taking that extra effort in making me understand, appreciate it completely but I did get your point rather the first time itself... anyways I put my claims to rest after what I had to prove on the track day.

Originally Posted by amitoj

ROFL... given "a little space and time" my 98 zen (when it was in stock condition, suspension included), with 1L on the odo, used to cross 140s on the speedo!! Jus FYI.

140 on the meter right??? If you read my post closely I have mentioned "Upper limit of realistic speed"... Guess u missed that out completely!!! Sorry to say but maruti speedos have unbelievable errors... Tried and tested. I have maruti owners who themselves wouldnt hesitate to back that statement. Even swift has significant error after 100kmph. Ask Gray(tbhpian who owns a swift). So if you really wanna know how a zen handles at 140kmph, try crossing 160kmph+...then post your comments on handling.

Speaking about vtec handling vs Lancer handling and city street driveability, I think the lancer takes the cake coz its heavier, hugs the road better and posesses better low end and mid range torque ...but I have never tested a lancer outright and cant say much more than this. The best way to conclude on things is to try it yourself than just putting something down that you have heard from someone who u dont even know!!!

[balenopower]

Hmm another war rages...
well turbocharged city v/s turbocharged lancer..no to guesses which would win...
stock vtec would still run a tc lancer close....i mean a stock lancer is plain SLOW in terms of throttle response espicially after i swapped it with my baleno...but teh handling was good i must say..but tht was also due to the fact tht lancer was shod with 185/r14 tyres whereas mine with teh pathetically stock 165's.(its a diff ball game altogether now tht i have the 195/14's)
put it in simple words..
Best handling--Lancer
Best performance-city vtec
Best compromise-Baleno

[amitoj]

Yeah right wolf, a car's true handling nature comes to light at 160 kmph only. Thats the speed to take the curves on the road!!!

Gosh i cant believe i let myself get dragged into one of those completely pointless arguments!!!

*no offence to all the rest who are still interested in continuing the discussion... please carry on!*

Anyways, another attempt at rising above all this!

Peace out
Amitoj