[rajushank84]

This is an uncomfortable topic, one we tend to avoid.

But at some point many of us think about this. As petrolheads, are we missing out by sticking with "safe" brands and models that have a wide service network?

What's the worst that can happen? Or, in Jeremy Clarkson's voice: "How hard can it be?" - to own a brand/model that is no longer around?

Let's break that down:

1. Service and repairs
2. Getting stranded god-knows-where with accidents/breakdowns
3. Financial / resale-value concerns
4. Safety concerns with older cars

1. Service and repairs
Broadly, the service work should be doable by competent independent shops.
The concern is parts. But in today's world of online commerce and a global market, how much of a concern is this really? I understand there is a difference between a rare car that was launched only in India, versus a car that existed globally and has a used-parts market.
Example:

• The Civic we had between 2007-2011. In India it is gone. But globally, there has to be a significant market for it. Chevy Cruze, Fiat Punto and so on are similar.
• However, you can't expect the same for say, a Daewoo Cielo.

The other concern here is, how many independent shops agree to service these cars? How many independent shops exist in the first place, in some cities?

Q: What's the worst that can happen?
A: Practically, you end up waiting for spares for quite a while, with the car dysfunctional.


2. Getting stranded god-knows-where with accidents/breakdowns
This is broadly similar to the regular service concern, except.. there's no telling where you will be. Halfway to a hill-station the Mitsubishi sputters and stops. What next?

Q: What's the worst that can happen?
A: Car needs to get towed to a metro that has an independent shop that can handle it. Possibly towed to your hometown so that you don't have to take days off work going back and forth. All the towing can cost a bomb and be a pain in the neck.


3. Financial / resale-value concerns
This is purely subjective of course and varies for each wallet. But the way I see it, this is heavily mitigated by paying less for buying the car in the first place, compared to a contemporary model.
For example (for a 5 year ownership):

• Buying a Swift for 9 lakhs and sellingit for 4 lakhs, compared to = 5 lakhs + interest lost in depreciation
• Buying (say) a Cedia for 2 lakhs and letting it go for 50K. = 1.5 lakhs lost in depreciation

So even if you spend 3-4 lakhs for maintaining the Cedia and keeping it running, you're still in a comparable space to that Swift.

Q: What's the worst that can happen?
A: Your car gets sold for peanuts.


4. Safety concerns with older cars
This is a legitimate concern. But doesn't have to be always applicable. For example, again the example with the Civic, or let's take a Linea. You could still be better off safety-wise buying those over say mid-trim Swift or an i10. You could very well get a Fiesta Classic in Titanium model than a newer generation Santro. So it is relative.


So, summarizing... what's the worst that can happen?

1. Your service and repairs can take quite long
2. Breakdowns/accidents can be a hassle on long trips
3. Financially you may take a bath unless you hit a super-cheap deal when buying
4. If you buy a car without safety features, you may be putting your life in relatively higher risk

I'd like to hear from folks who own discontinued cars/brands and have been through these hassles. Do you think the concern is exaggerated? Or would you totally stick with only service-network-friendly brands next time around?


I think its also worth mentioning some cars I would buy that are discontinued:

1. Old Honda City
   
   
   
2. Cedia Sport
   
   
   
3. Punto/Linea
   
   
   
4. Fiesta 1.6
   
   
   
5. Ikon
   
   
   
6. Zen
   
   
   
7. Civic
   
   
   
8. Cruze
   
   
   
9. Palio 1.6
   
   
   
10. Old Baleno
    

Thoughts welcome. Worth doing? Worth the hassle of owning an older car we really like, versus settle for a newer car for the sake of service network?

[Rahul Bhalgat]

Owning a discontinued model? I won't mind. I would only make sure that the company has good market share and a long successful presence in India.

Even after buying, our specific model may be discontinued is a few years. But that doesn't usually affect the spares, service and reliability.

Owning a car model from a company that no longer exists (at least in India)? Strict NO for me. Well, one can still manage provided enough time and efforts are spent on maintaining the car.

[Jeroen]

With the exception of my company cars, almost every car I have ever owned was out of production for a long time, or in a few cases the brand ceased to exist (E.g. Talbot).

In the end it is down to buying a decent second hand, and not worrying too much about all these things mentioned. Hey, if I buy a 7 year old Jaguar at about 10% of its original cost who cares for the odd expensive repair.

I have owned dozens and dozens of cars. Mostly at least 5-8 years old, rarely with less than 100.000 km on the clock. If you ran out of spare parts, you just trade it in for the next one. Or scrap it.

New car ownership versus well used car ownership are two completely different things. I never worry about the cost, because I don’t have depreciation. Which as far as I am concerned should be a major worry for anybody buying new.

Reliability on most modern cars is by and large very good. It is really very rare to suffer a break down that will prevent you getting home.

Of course, most of my car ownership and experience is based on living and working in western countries. But if I read some of the horror stories on brand new cars in India and general spares for availability, owning a brand new car in India might not give you any advantages over a well used one. You have to ask youself this question; what is worse, breaking down with a brand new vehicle and getting poor service and virtually no parts available in all of India?

Or breaking down with an second hand car, that cost a fraction of its new version, and not being able to get it serviced or parts because it’s obsolete?

Jeroen

[gkveda]

Definitely a big risk. First of all, if a company manufactures good cars and if they have good business model, strategies and ethics after sales, a situation does not arise for them to close their manufacturing unit in the country. If they have closed their business in the country, it simply implies that they didn't have their business strategy and ethics straight and right. So, how can one trust such company that they have manufactured quality and reliable product? Chances of assembling all remaining parts in the godown inventory together to create a lemon and sell will be all time high.

In fact, purchasing a model that is discontinued itself is a risk in India due to non availability of spares, lack of service support, resale value, etc (exception may be Toyota products like Qualis to certain extent).

When situation is like this for a discontinued model, what could be the condition if the company itself is closing down. Its very risky for me and I will never make such mistake.

[Kosfactor]

As a hobby car it's not such a bad idea, however there is considerable progress in refinement and amenities in even entry level cars these days that old enthusiast's favorite cars are often the case of - Never meet your heroes.

As a daily drive vehicle a discontinued brand is a risk that is often not worth it, FNG will make a living out of you and your vehicle just won't feel like the vehicle it is supposed to be.

[Emvi]

It's a big NO to me. The reasons-

1. With discontinued models, non availability of spares is always an issue. Spares if available, sometimes are ridiculously expensive.

2. I am the one who always prefers authorised service centers over FNGs to get my vehicles serviced(with an exception). With discontinued brands, non availability of service centers is another major concern.

3. Breakdowns cannot be ruled out even in a new car. But with discontinued brand of cars or models breaking down on a highway, chances are, either the car will abandon you or you have to abandon the car in the middle of the road.

The above statements are based on our Fiat Palio 1.6 ownership experience which was nothing but terrible. It is not that we bought the car after it was discontinued, we bought it new much earlier and continued using the car even after its production was halted. The only discontinued "car" that I am comfortable purchasing/owning is a Mahindra "Jeep". This is because FNGs in my locality are well versed as far as "Jeeps" are concerned, and this is the one exception I was talking about earlier. Also, availability of spares is a non-issue and definitely inexpensive.

[GTO]

Couple of thoughts from my end, as I end up in this situation frequently due to how long I keep my cars.

- As long as the model was popular in India or worldwide, you will never have a problem with its maintenance. Popularity means there is enough labour + parts support in the after-market. But God help you if you end up with a flopped car.

- 90% of cars sold today will offer you acceptable to good levels of reliability up to 200,000 km easily if maintained well.

- You need a very competent independent garage. I own a niche 2-door Jeep model that is 24 years old and was discontinued 2 decades ago. But owning it is a breeze because of two exceptional indies I know.

- Stick to a model with promise, abandon the one that doesn't have a future. Don't throw good money after bad - know when to cut your losses. As an example, you will still see 2007 Toyota Camrys running well on our roads. But the 1st-gen Skoda Superb sold in India? RIP.

[vigsom]

Originally Posted by rajushank84

Worth the hassle of owning an older car we really like, versus settle for a newer car for the sake of service network?

Most of the cars I've owned were 7 years of age, discontinued, or slow moving ones at the time of my purchase. But that didn't deter me from going ahead. Why?

1. I had the zest to get down to spending time and maintaining them
2. I had service and spares support
3. I knew these were reliable machines

Typically, large used cars go down to 25% of their original value at age 6-7 and there is no risk in buying such examples if one knows that they've been well engineered for rock solid reliability. For me, I don't look beyond Japanese engineered cars.

Originally Posted by Rahul Bhalgat

[Even after buying, our specific model may be discontinued in a few years. But that doesn't usually affect the spares, service and reliability

True Sir. As long as service and spares support is available, one doesn't need to bother as long as reliability is assured eg. Toyota Corolla, Altis, Honda City vtec

Originally Posted by Jeroen

what is worse, breaking down with a brand new vehicle and getting poor service and virtually no parts available in all of India?

Or breaking down with an second hand car, that cost a fraction of its new version, and not being able to get it serviced or parts because it’s obsolete?

Pertinent point, Sir. In Jun-2018, I was witness to this hapless owner of a brand new Tigor(with even the ribbons intact) on a Monday morning, with his car stuck in one of the middle lanes of the Delhi-Gurugram Expressway somewhere over the Mahipalpur junction. Think of how he must have been feeling.

[Dr.AD]

Based on my experience of owning a few cars over longer period, I would say it really varies from car to car. Therefore, I would not use any general rule about discontinued cars. Like most things, the answer is, it depends.

I am not averse to owning discontinued cars, and I will happily own some models. But not some others. Below are my experiences:

1. I own a 2010 Maruti SX4 which has done about 1,25,000km on it. It is discontinued long back. But even today, Maruti supports it well and parts availability is not an issue. Actually the part procurement does take some time by usual Maruti standards, but that is a very different thing. Earlier this year my AC compressor belt snapped suddenly (my one and only breakdown experience in owning this car for 11 years now). The service center profusely apologized to me because the part would arrive the next day, and they could not fix my car the same day! I was not even expecting same day repair on a 10 year old discontinued car. I told them to take their time. But they indeed made my car ready the next day. Maruti is a very different world when it comes to customer service and parts availability. Worst case, I know that any FNG would be able to fix my SX4 anytime. So in summary, any discontinued model from Maruti would be no problem for me if I like that car (I like my SX4 a lot).

2. I once owned a Fiat Palio, and even before that was discontinued (i.e. when it was the current model), service and maintenance was a nightmare. I have seen some of the worst times for Fiat India. Even in cities like Pune and Bangalore, it was a task to find a service center in the first place. In such cases, where even current models were struggling on parts availability, buying a discontinued model is asking for trouble. Thankfully, Fiat India has come a long way since those days, but just wanted to share that example anyways.

3. I have a F30 BMW 320d, which is technically discontinued now as the latest generation G20 is already here since 2019. Here, luckily I did not need any major maintenance but I know that it takes 2 months for any parts to arrive, should I need anything. A few months ago, my lower suspension arm had taken a stone hit, and although it was minor and car was totally derivable, my SA advised me to replace it. The replacement parts took 2 months to arrive from Germany! Although my car is just 4 years old (it is a 2017 model), they would not keep anything in stock and everything has to be ordered from Germany. Thankfully BMW service support is excellent and they are very friendly, reasonable and polite. So they will fix the car, but parts delays is something beyond their control. I know many such cases with my friends' BMWs. So in summary, if you are owning a discontinued German cars, parts procurement can take weeks or months.

So these are my examples. I would say I have had a "mixed experience" and therefore I would judge each car on its merits and not apply any general rules.

[Sanjunair5]

Some relevant personal experiences from my side;
- Buying a discontinues LR Freelander 1 - I owned a first gen LR Freelander, bought used with about 60K Miles on the clock. I believe it was a 2005 model bought in 2009. While it drove like a charm and felt like a rock, the engine was extremely troublesome. It was only later that I realized the issue of head gasket failure issue that the engine was known for. Engine head gasket replacement was a big big job and I sold off the car the moment I realized the issue. So stay away from cars with possibility of expensive recurrent issues.. While the cost of ownership may still be low, the headache is still not worth it.

- Technology and feature incompatibility - This is a problem I have with my current car, a 2014 Mahindra XUV. E.g. the Map from Mapmyindia is of 2011 vintage and the display hardware cannot take in newer map updates. Mahindra updated the whole unit for later iterations, but does not provide hardware upgrades for older cars. It is not a big deal at all, with several workarounds. But a botheration nonetheless. So with used cars either it should be no tech or the latest tech (or atleast upgradeable to something close).

Regards,
Sanju

[locusjag]

Originally Posted by Dr.AD

Maruti is a very different world when it comes to customer service and parts availability. Worst case, I know that any FNG would be able to fix my SX4 anytime. So in summary, any discontinued model from Maruti would be no problem for me if I like that car (I like my SX4 a lot).

Likewise with my used Suzuki A Star which has been discontinued for 8 years now - parts are always available. Sure, it takes a day or two more to get some parts. but my FNG is always able to source them as needed. I see no harm in holding on to this little bug!

[TrackDay]

Like most have said, taking a used car which is popular or was once popular means less hassle during ownership. Spares can be procured and maintenance can be carried out by FNGs. Most of the cars listed here can find parts easily. The ones that you wont will most probably be the cosmetic ones likes plastic parts, panels, seats etc. These you must tailor make or order from folks who carry out such process. With 3D printing on the rise, certain objects can be procured that way too. Rest of the parts are usually generic. If you can get the manual/drawings/specifications then it is easy. But don't expect quick repair times such as drop the car in the morning and get it fixed by evening.

[AutoNoob]

I own a Chevrolet Beat 1.2 Petrol (2011 model). GM decided shut its Indian business in 2017. Resale value of vehicle was already a question mark, and the news didn't help either. I was worried at that time, but yet held onto the vehicle. It was working fine and used only for local drive (around 20kms per week).

Coming to present time : Till date the service support is available. Not the swanky workshops as were earlier, but they get the work done. AFAIK, in Gurgaon, there are two workshops currently operating. Common spares are available; for typical spares customers may need to wait upto couple of weeks.

I got following parts changed last September : headlamp, brake discs, brake pads, rear brake cylinders, and regulars like oil filter, fuel filter, air filter, AC filter, engine oil, brake oil. Workshop guys did try to fleece me on the service charges. Other than that experience has been smooth till now.

Now planning get Gear shift lever and cables checked/ changed as first gear shifting is hard.

Given the condition of vehicle and available support, planning to keep the autobot till end of life.

[Emvi]

Originally Posted by GTO

- You need a very competent independent garage. I own a niche 2-door Jeep model that is 24 years old and was discontinued 2 decades ago. But owning it is a breeze because of two exceptional indies I know.

You have got company here . I own a 52 years old Mahindra JEEP. My grandfather first bought the JEEP for 22 grand back in 1968. My father replaced the original Hurricane petrol motor with a brand new Mahindra International DI diesel mill in 1992. Now it's 2021 and still going strong.

[charanreddy]

I had a Zen 2002 MPFI from 2014 to 2017. The car never let us down, even when the driver had accidentally filled diesel. The service was super cheap, Like 2K - 5K rupees per year. We were able to do 1000 KM trip without thinking too much. I still miss this car.

On the other had, I had a 2012 Chevrolet Beat Diesel which I had bought new and had to sell off at a little more than 1 lakh KMS, just because it was a big headache to maintain. The service bill were never below 25K per year post warranty and the work shop treated any opportunity to fleece the customers as their birth right. After 90K KMS, the engine started giving problems and the engine used to drink engine oil. The minimum repair estimate was about Rs 80K at the very minimum and I sold of the car earlier this year for Rs 1.1 Lakhs. Its a big depreciation hit and I would not touch Chevrolet cars with a barge pole in India.

For comparison, My brother bought a 2012 Honda City SMT earlier this year with 1.3 lakh KMS on the Odo. The car is a delight to own and drive. In the future I am going to stick with reasonably successful companies (No Ford / Skoda / Nissan). For used, It will definitely be a petrol and As much as possible Japanese make.