[Aditya]

Thanks to the Team-BHP fan (he prefers to remain anonymous) who sent this information in. Heartfelt gratitude for sharing them with other enthusiasts via this Team-BHP share page!

I am writing this mail to make people aware of some shady practices going on with flood affected cars in and around Mumbai Metropolitan Region.

As most parts of Navi Mumbai, Kalyan, Thane, Shil Phata, and Panvel were affected by floods this year, there has been a multifold increase in the number of flood affected cars. I recently found out that the majority of these cars end up in Taloja for the following two jobs:

1. Repair
2. Transport to other cities without repair (Tier II and III)

In the first week of August 2021, there were more than 100 flood affected cars parked near Taloja Station being loaded onto container trucks very carefully for being transported to other cities. A colleague of mine interacted with a garage near my home, which undertakes jobs of flood affected cars only. He found out the following details of this business.

A huge number of cars comes to Taloja within 7 days to 15 days of a flood. These cars are bought from different locations and kept along the old Mumbai-Pune highway near Taloja Gaon, opposite the RAF camp, near Taloja Railway Station. Some of these cars make their way to the numerous mechanics in Taloja who work specifically on flood affected cars.

As per the garage owner, these cars are of the following ownerships:

1. Individual owner gets the car to these garages for repair and then either takes it back or sells it. Generally, these cars have their number plates on them.
2. Flood affected cars are procured by local dealers and online used car sites, repaired and sold to an unsuspecting client either locally or even online! Here comes the shady part. These cars bought to Taloja have their number plates removed in order to protect their identity i.e. photos going online suggesting that these cars were flood affected.
3. Cars procured by local dealers from insurance companies, which were declared a total loss. Again, these cars have their number plates removed and are repaired.

Even the garage owner doesn't know the method of registration of the cars in the names of the further 2nd / 3rd owners as they have been declared a total loss. As far as I know, total loss cars are generally de-registered. Are some heavy under-the-table dealings happening at registration offices? But here we are, these cars will be sold to unsuspecting buyers. Most of these cars are sent to other cities for sale.

This garage had cars bought in from as far as Pen and Chiplun. I myself saw a fairly new Creta and an Altroz apart from 13 other cars.

BTW, the workmanship at this garage was absolutely ridiculous. Three boys were jumping on the Creta's rear seat after it was removed and bought out in the open, in order to drain the excess water from it. Electrical parts' repairs are just jugaad. Engine repairs are completely unprofessional. I felt horrible just looking at these cars. What happens to all those sensors in these modern cars? One-by-one they will malfunction over a short period of time - pity the unsuspecting owners.

I have learnt that with such jobs, these garages make a fortune to such an extent that they do not even entertain cars for regular service and maintenance.

Add to this, there is a huge stockyard of two major online used car businesses near these garages in Taloja and right now, they have at least 100 used cars in their stock combined. The nexus between these garages and these used car dealers can not be stricken off.

Witnessing this has shaken me to the core. Recently, a colleague of mine was looking forward to buying a car. I had accompanied her 3 years ago when she bought her first used car on my recommendation. This time though, I wasn't confident enough to ask her to go the used car way, as I am scared after seeing these practices.

I would suggest everyone to exercise extra caution while purchasing used cars. These cars are flooding the used car market. They may still be in a small number proportionally, but you never know when you'll fall prey to such practices.

Here are some pictures taken by me.

This Creta was not bearing a number plate right from the day it was brought to this garage:

Same is the case with this Altroz:

A few more cars lined up and few stored in the bushes next to the cars you see:

[shancz]

Thanks and primarily my reason for not buying used cars here.
Its not this particular flood affected post but the general lack of trust in sellers whether its maintenance or usage. Primarily because of my lack of technical knowledge so can't really "look" at a car and gauge its condition, also don't trust most mechanics.

The only case I would consider a used car is if I know the owner and the car from the day it was bought. Gives a fair idea of the usage and maintenance traits.
And of course TBHP

[aargee]

As far as I know, total loss cars are generally de-registered. Are some heavy under-the-table dealings happening at registration offices? But here we are, these cars will be sold to unsuspecting buyers. Most of these cars are sent to other cities for sale

I don't get this part.

Does deregistering mean, the specific number is no longer associated with that vehicle's chassis & engine number? If so, then how come the same car can be sold to Tier 2 & Tier 3 cities by an used car dealer? Unless, the showroom guys also act in this drama, which I don't think happens, this cannot be done isn't it?

Or does deregistering means something else?

[sagarpadaki]

Usually, the cars are not de-registered. If they do, then the remaining years of road tax is to be paid back to the owner by the RTO on pro rata basis. What the insurance company does is, in case of a total loss, they make you sign a form which transfers the ownership. Then these cars are sold to the salvage garages by the insurance company, they are repaired and sold to unsuspecting buyers as the next owner.

There is an excellent thread somewhere in this forum where the owner caught this act with the insurer and went great lengths to get the car de-registered and scrapped after his car was met with a total loss accident. I am not able to find it now

[aargee]

Originally Posted by sagarpadaki

Usually, the cars are not de-registered. If they do, then the remaining years of road tax is to be paid back to the owner by the RTO on pro rata basis. What the insurance company does is, in case of a total loss, they make you sign a form which transfers the ownership. Then these cars are sold to the salvage garages by the insurance company, they are repaired and sold to unsuspecting buyers as the next owner

This is quite common practice anywhere in the country; the word shady is associated only when the seller does not disclose the truth of the car's origin to the buyer.

I'm awaiting to hear similar shady practices being adopted by Maruti True Value, Mahindra First Choice, Toyota Trust etc

[sagarpadaki]

Originally Posted by aargee

This is quite common practice anywhere in the country; the word shady is associated only when the seller does not disclose the truth of the car's origin to the buyer.

I'm awaiting to hear similar shady practices being adopted by Maruti True Value, Mahindra First Choice, Toyota Trust etc

It is shady because a car involved in a nasty accident is not road worthy. So, no matter how much a FNG restores the car, structurally it is unstable. So, it should not be fixed and passed onto the next buyer but rather de-registered and scrapped. The insurance company does this shady forwarding because it reduces the payout amount to the customer from their pocket since a part of payout will come from the sale of the vehicle to the FNG and only the remaining part has to be shelled out by the insurance company. In effect, the customer get the IDV value but the insurance company does not pay the entire value from their pocket.

[SnS_12]

Originally Posted by sagarpadaki

There is an excellent thread somewhere in this forum where the owner caught this act with the insurer and went great lengths to get the car de-registered and scrapped after his car was met with a total loss accident. I am not able to find it now

Are your referring to this thread?

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/india...oss-claim.html (The tale of a Total Loss Claim)

[ninjatalli]

Originally Posted by sagarpadaki

There is an excellent thread somewhere in this forum where the owner caught this act with the insurer and went great lengths to get the car de-registered and scrapped after his car was met with a total loss accident. I am not able to find it now

I guess this one works - Total loss claim + Road tax refund experience

I believe there are more than one - I remember reading about a different thread a few years ago. The crux of the matter was same as in above thread - the insurer (/or via the scrapping vendor) tries hard to get the owner give away the rights to road tax refund, enabling them to repair the car and sell it to an unsuspecting buyer, and the long, cumbersome process to get the refund.

[HTC]

Originally Posted by aargee

I'm awaiting to hear similar shady practices being adopted by Maruti True Value, Mahindra First Choice, Toyota Trust etc

No one is saint here. All are same.
My neighbor had purchased a used Wagon-R from true value. True value had sold him the car saying it has clean records and no accidents as such. Few years later, when he went to exchange that car for buying new Baleno, true value did the assessment and checked the service history and told him this car had undergone accident repair. He challenged them saying true value only had sold him this car by lying. Finally they had to eat their own words and bought the car for fair price

[lsjey]

Wow! Very relevant thread! Thanks for sharing @Aditya. It might be useful to start a thread which details the lifecycle of car ownership. Right from selecting a car to buy, to sell or deregister. There are relevant threads in the forum, but searching them is kinda difficult. This lifecycle thread can tie these threads together so that TBHPians can access the information quickly.

Regards,
lsjey

[D'Ro@dSt@r]

Originally Posted by aargee

I don't get this part.

Does deregistering mean, the specific number is no longer associated with that vehicle's chassis & engine number? If so, then how come the same car can be sold to Tier 2 & Tier 3 cities by an used car dealer? Unless, the showroom guys also act in this drama, which I don't think happens, this cannot be done isn't it?

Or does deregistering means something else?

I also doubt this as our Old santro met with an accident in 2010 and was declared "Total Loss" and the salvage was bought by an agent and now I can see that car running on the roads with a different owner with the same registration number. Not sure if a lot has changed from now and then.
Have a same situation where in our 2017 BRV met an accident and that also has been declared a "Total Loss". Waiting to see what happens with that salvage which has been bought by another agent and it is under repairs.

[asit.kulkarni93]

Originally Posted by aargee

I don't get this part.

Does deregistering mean, the specific number is no longer associated with that vehicle's chassis & engine number? If so, then how come the same car can be sold to Tier 2 & Tier 3 cities by an used car dealer? Unless, the showroom guys also act in this drama, which I don't think happens, this cannot be done isn't it?

Or does deregistering means something else?

That's not how this works. Unless the owner insists, no insurance company actually declares the car as a total loss. Proper total loss also means cutting of the chassis number from the car and deregistering it. They are basically given a figure close to the IDV, signatures taken on form 29&30 and later the car is sold after repairs. There are ways to get to this too. Most cars have their estimates prepared at the SVC, you can easily extract the history and get that estimate. Alternatively, expired insurance or just TP insurance is a give away. Most importantly, a flood affected car will always have pungent smell. Most of the dealers do jugaad work so it's not very difficult to miss out on a flood affected car.

[amit_purohit20]

Originally Posted by aargee

I'm awaiting to hear similar shady practices being adopted by Maruti True Value, Mahindra First Choice, Toyota Trust etc

My cousin bought a Indica Vista Saffire from Maruti True Value. He himself has seen his own car display three different odometer readings in a matter of days till he got the final delivery.

What I observed was just next to the display arena of used cars, True Value was shamelessly unloading accidental cars, whole chassis was being straightened out, chop shop work was going on chassis parts and complete repainting being done.

The car which was sold to my cousin was accidental (it had a rear shunt) but thankfully not a very major one. The car had driven more than 1 lakh kms easily but was reading 36k when I saw it. There was a whole burnt through the carpet just below drivers legs. Later suspension and clutch work had to be done. Steering is hard and gears are hard to shift too.
All thanks to the known person true value employee whom my cousin trusted.
Well my cousin bought the car under family pressure they liked the freshly repainted car which looked like a new car from outside. The known dealer gave them alloys which couldn't be balanced at all!

So all major players like True Value and Mahindra First choice are no saints at all.

[Torq]

Thanks for bringing this up!
I had recently posted about losing our beloved beast to massive flooding on July 22nd this year in mahad. She was just 18 month old!
This car was to be declared as total loss, but insurance company has sold the flood affected vehicle to a 3rd party for a paltry sum. According to this guy, (from Mumbai) now the vehicle will be repaired and will be sadly sold to an unsuspecting used car buyer.
During negotiation with the insurance company, I mentioned about total loss and scrappage and refund of road tax etc but, they said it will be a salvage loss only else I'd have to forgo the salvage amount and deal with scrapping myself. To prevent further financial loss on my end, I agreed to their 'scheme'. Such is the current scenario today, with poor regulations with this kind of situations.


Edit: In effect, there are two parts here to this shady story. One being that the total loss car may be flood affected and hence, sufficiently repairable and could be reliable. (I highly doubt that last part.)
The second, an accidental history and a total loss claim which should be a big no no from all parties concerned.

[yd_gli]

I always have a hearty laugh when I see people having a look at used cars on the Pune bypass, especially when they are looking at luxury vehicles. One must have their brains in their knees to even contemplate buying a used vehicle that has registration in Pen, Panvel, Thane, Mumbai etc. Pretty much every mom and pop used car dealer on the highway has a ton of cars registered in these areas and its pretty obvious what is going on.
India is the land of unregulated used car scamsters and I wouldn’t touch a used car with a barge pole in this country. Heck, I bought a used Ford Taurus when I was a student in the US and it turned out the car had a head gasket leakage. Fortunately, the state cooling off law meant that I could take it back to the dealer for a full refund. Good luck getting anything back in India. If you try and put up a fight all you’ll get is a bunch of goons threatening you. Given the high risk and high interest rates associated with used cars, I have never understood why people just don’t buy a new car they can afford. I visited the First Choice and Cars 24 yards a year ago out of curiosity and never felt good about buying anything from them. It’s as shady as shady can get.