[ottocycle]

The smashing Nexon numbers are also contributed by it's EV Avatar which was around ~3k in January. Exciting times ahead for Tata motors. I hope their service centers are prepared for the increased load and don't create a bad experience for customers.

[CEF_Beasts]

Originally Posted by poloman

There was not a single soul in the Toyota showroom not even a sales person. After 10 minutes some one turned out. No test drive vehicles either.
Tata showroom was teaming with people. Huge number of families checking out cars and making deals.
If Toyota does not stop the fleecing people with over priced lower speced cars, it will soon end up the fate of Honda, VW etc.

Retail numbers for Toyota speak differently though!

Originally Posted by CoolFire

Toyota have always bounced back from slumps for their flagship cash cows - Fortuner and Innova. Still, the current lower sales numbers are intriguing.

Chip shortage do not seem to have affected these two much as both vehicles seem available without much booking period. Then what could have gone wrong with their sales numbers, which were going strong till a few months ago ?

My hunch is that to accommodate the Hilux into the same production line as the Innova and Fortuner, some production of both had to be reduced.

Originally Posted by DicKy

The plants were closed for maintenance and some sort of upgrading for the upcoming D22 and B560 models. Is it the same plant that makes the Innova/Fortuner or another one?

Not sure, but that is the only plausible reason I could think of.

D22 is rumoured to be manufactured in the Camry plant, Innova and Fortuner have a separate plant.

[DicKy]

Originally Posted by CoolFire

Toyota have always bounced back from slumps for their flagship cash cows - Fortuner and Innova. Still, the current lower sales numbers are intriguing.

Chip shortage do not seem to have affected these two much as both vehicles seem available without much booking period. Then what could have gone wrong with their sales numbers, which were going strong till a few months ago ?

The plants were closed for maintenance and some sort of upgrading for the upcoming D22 and B560 models. Is it the same plant that makes the Innova/Fortuner or another one?

Not sure, but that is the only plausible reason I could think of.

Also, the Camry numbers seems to be good. Rare occurence of it beating the Superb numbers. Pent up demand for the facelift I believe.

[Black_Star]

Originally Posted by DicKy

The plants were closed for maintenance and some sort of upgrading for the upcoming D22 and B560 models. Is it the same plant that makes the Innova/Fortuner or another one?

Toyota should have lot of production capacity after Etios, Yaris and Corolla Altis were discontinued. So they must be upgrading the production line to accommodate the Hilux.

[sunikkat]

Originally Posted by tiagoatrix

My observation.

2.Nexon numbers are unbelievable, that too with an AMT, imagine sales numbers with a proper auto gearbox.

Indeed a great performance from Nexon. Tata is really capitalizing on safety and Make in India sentiments. Most of the Tata owners adorn their car with Vocal 4 Local sticker (which is a good thing)

Fact is majority of the buyers do not know difference between multiple auto gear boxes. For them AMT = CVT = TC = DSG. And that is where AMT score, because it is available at low price point and the sales guy pitch in mentioning AMT is the reliable and cheapest to replace gearbox. So getting a proper gearbox might not increase Nexon sale, rather it might decrease as cost of the car would go up and will lose few customers.

[Accelerati]

Originally Posted by poloman

On a Monday morning, I decided to test drive the following vehicles. Show rooms were 500m apart.
Toyota Fortuner
Toyota Innova
Tata Safari
The experience summed up what you can observe from the charts.
There was not a single soul in the Toyota showroom not even a sales person. After 10 minutes some one turned out. No test drive vehicles either.
Tata showroom was teaming with people. Huge number of families checking out cars and making deals.
If Toyota does not stop the fleecing people with over priced lower speced cars, it will soon end up the fate of Honda, VW etc.

Toyota Plants were not operational for the month of Jan-22. The dispatches are going to restart from 1st week of Feb-22. The plants are down for maintenance and preparation of the upcoming Creta Competitor.

Code named D22 - the product would be the manufactured at the Bidadi plant and would be a completely new product from the Toyota stable after a long long time. Maruti would also get the SUV under the product sharing arrangement, but this time the products would have distinctly different identities (Imagine Seltos and Creta)

The order pipeline for Innovas and Fortuners are swelling, so don't be surprised to see a big leap in numbers next month onwards.

Also talking about Safari and Innova, I have each of these cars at my stable and my humble two cents are that the Safari is a car full of niggles. My Safari has an Engine check light which won't go off no matter how many times I take it to the workshop.

Also there is a huge difference in quality of interiors between Innova and the Safari. If you are planning to spend good 20 lacs for a car, please plan wisely.

[poloman]

Originally Posted by Accelerati

[b]

Also talking about Safari and Innova, I have each of these cars at my stable and my humble two cents are that the Safari is a car full of niggles. My Safari has an Engine check light which won't go off no matter how many times I take it to the workshop.

Also there is a huge difference in quality of interiors between Innova and the Safari. If you are planning to spend good 20 lacs for a car, please plan wisely.

Totally agree with this. Had back to back test drives of Innova and Safari top end. Despite the poor dealer ship experience. Innova is in a different class though it lacks bells and whistles Indians generally look for.
It is packed with features which have high utility value at least to a middle aged person like me. An younger person may have a different take.
Innova is over priced by 1-2Lakhs and Fortuner by at least 4-5L. If Toyota can address this, sales can zoom. But why should they.. due to loyal customer base.

[Samba]

Maruti & Tata are the only two companies who have not sold a single model in 3 digit figures! Even their lowest selling car fetched a decent number of 1500+. Maruti always had a healthy line-up, good to see Tata having the same without a single sales dud in their portfolio.
With the Duster production being stopped, Renault achieved the same feat, but with a very small line-up of just 3 cars.

[achyutaghosh]

Originally Posted by poloman

Innova is over priced by 1-2Lakhs and Fortuner by at least 4-5L. If Toyota can address this, sales can zoom. But why should they.. due to loyal customer base.

Totally agree. Existing Toyota Innova and Fortuner customers end up buying the same vehicle again and again.I know of quite a few in my social circles. And new, prospective customers who value quality and reliability over features and sunroof also settle for the big T.

Having said that, i do hope Toyota has a big dependence on large diesels and i hope they are able to future proof the product line-up in terms of EVs and hybrids ((with or without Maruti's support). The Indian companies are making great strides in that field and automotive history notwithstanding, that battle may start on even footing.

[vigneshkumar31]

Look at Tata taking on Hyundai , it’s finally reached within striking range of #2 leader.

Auto box in Altroz should help it squeeze more sales from i20.

Tata is enjoying the fruits of its design led brand renovation.

[rangarx]

I read comments that Toyota would suffer if the prices are not corrected. Not going to happen IMHO. Especially with Ford's exit and no solid challenge for Innova, and our blind faith on the brand, the company is only going to get STRONGER.

I guess Suzuki will regain 50%+ share in the coming months due to Baleno, Jimny, Midsize SUV and the electric plans. Seems they are addressing the tin-can image too with Baleno, at least it has been a good PR!

Tata has to look for what next. They must keep constant upgrades and new gen products flowing in. Harrier punches above its wait against Creta in a few fronts but doesn't sell. There is space for a product between Nexon and Creta but no action is seen from Tata. Another sweet spot is Monocoque MUV. If Tata works on these, second spot in market will not be a dream. Having said that, What a comeback! Kudos!

[amalji]

Originally Posted by CoolFire

Toyota have always bounced back from slumps for their flagship cash cows - Fortuner and Innova. Still, the current lower sales numbers are intriguing.

I think the Toyota lower sales number in January is because of plant shut down.

Reference article

Quote from the article

As part of the plan, called the "Big Leap" internally, the maker of the Innova and Fortuner has shut its India facility for over a month starting Christmas to recast it for higher output and make way for the production of a mainstream SUV (codenamed D22) to challenge Hyundai Creta and a multipurpose vehicle (codenamed 560B). The local unit of Toyota is scheduled to reopen the plant near Bengaluru on February 4.

The D22 SUV will be an all-new utility vehicle from Toyota for the Indian market after almost half a decade. It will be positioned in the core of the SUV market — and it will come with Toyota’s hybrid technology.

Toyota Kirloskar plans to produce 200,000 units of the Creta rival annually within next few years once volumes mature in India and globally

Almost a third of its production will be the hybrid version offering an electric motor with the internal combustion engine and will be shared by both Suzuki and Toyota.

[achyutaghosh]

Originally Posted by vigneshkumar31

Tata is enjoying the fruits of its design led brand renovation.

One reason for Tata's meteoric rise is design. The second reason is media. Just look at the hundreds of vlogger network that Tata has built in Youtube. These guys are reinforcing the attraction of the brand to the millenials and Gen Zs- something that Tata has never been able to appeal to in the past, and also removing the notion that Tatas are unreliable.

And all this growth is in a scenario where their product portfolio is severely hamstrung due to the lax of gearboxes (good automatics) and good engines (no large/powerful petrols). If the portfolio shortcomings are addresed, i think there is no stopping Tata ever, given that they are ahead of the others on the future EV centric strategy.

[abhijet.sen]

Originally Posted by rangarx

I read comments that Toyota would suffer if the prices are not corrected. Not going to happen IMHO. Especially with Ford's exit and no solid challenge for Innova, and our blind faith on the brand, the company is only going to get STRONGER.

I guess Suzuki will regain 50%+ share in the coming months due to Baleno, Jimny, Midsize SUV and the electric plans. Seems they are addressing the tin-can image too with Baleno, at least it has been a good PR!

Tata has to look for what next. They must keep constant upgrades and new gen products flowing in. Harrier punches above its wait against Creta in a few fronts but doesn't sell. There is space for a product between Nexon and Creta but no action is seen from Tata. Another sweet spot is Monocoque MUV. If Tata works on these, second spot in market will not be a dream. Having said that, What a comeback! Kudos!

Toyota will soon face challenges from XUV700, Jeep Commander and then VW/Skoda twins are eating some of its space. If Harrier/Safari twins do launch in AWD, that will further dent Toyota. Though profitability per car for Toyota is unlikely to reduce, concurring they will not reduce prices, but if they start selling too few of their cars, it will become very difficult to remain in country. Innova is still something where I don't see much challenge yet.

Tata has further potential in EV space especially if they can launch EV version for Harrier/Safari twin and offer 500+ KM range (fancy yes but still possible).

Maruti has so far not broken beyond Rs 10 Lakh barrier successfully. Unless their Midsize SUV is properly priced (read cheaper than Create and upcoming Tata coupe SV) unlikely for them to make some impact. Moreover, EV if only offering low mileage (upto 150 Km), which is perhaps where Maruti would like to play due to cost, not going to sell much either.

[Peri_patetic99]

Surprised to see the amaze still selling 5k+ units per month. That's more than the city which is currently the best product in Honda's range and the amaze is clearly outdated and outclassed by its competitors( i.e. CSUV segment cars and the likes of dzire). If they put in some effort and bring in a CSUV from their global portfolio to India to challenge creta and the likes, they could do decent numbers, but no action is seen from their side. it remains to be seen whether they will pull out eventually from India like ford( even after doing decent sales numbers) or put in some work and bring good, desirable products across all segments at the right price. With the slavia coming, there isn't any predictability whether the city's numbers will take a hit or not.

Also, Mahindra needs to work on bringing in more products in the mass-market category,they have extremely good cars like the XUV300, Thar, XUV700 and their sales numbers are decent too, if they manage to slot in another product between the 300 and 700( possibly a new 500?) to compete with the Creta, while bringing in good features and safety with performance at a competitive price. EV space also needs more focus as it seems tata is the only one that has affordable and competitive EV's right now.

Skoda-VAG seem to be doing not so great numbers with the kushaq/taigun, segment leaders like creta are way higher at 9k+ sales and even sedans like city and amaze are doing better, all eyes on the slavia and virtus to give returns on the huge India 2.0 investment. Possibly an effect of lower quality(niggles, inconsistent build which is arguably worse than even 10-12 year old polos?) than expected and poor after sales?

Hyundai's numbers might reduce further this month, while Tata increases due to their PR blunder, share has largely remained stagnant in the past couple of years so maybe time to introduce new models like the Tucson/genesis brand in India?