[pqr]

Honda City outruns Skoda Slavia and Volkswagen Virtus

• The Honda City continued to be the best-selling mid-size sedan in 2022 and outsold both the newly introduced non-identical VAG twins

• Two generations of Honda City with different price positioning are available with a choice of petrol 5MT(4th gen only)/6MT/CVT or hybrid e-CVT or diesel 6MT drivetrain
• Skoda Slavia & Volkswagen Virtus are available with either a 1L turbo-petrol engine with a choice of 6MT/6AT gearbox or a performance-oriented 1.5L turbo-petrol engine with a choice of 6MT(Slavia only)/7DSG gearbox

• In fact, Honda City, with ₹ 27,000 discounts on petrol only variants (94% mix), has nearly outperformed the VAG twins combined in July 2022

• Honda City’s volume is even higher than the combined volume of Maruti Ciaz (petrol-only) and Hyundai Verna (46% diesel mix)
• Both are priced in the lower spectrum of the mid-size sedan category and are waiting for a generation change

• For now, with a 36% share of the mid-size sedan category, the Honda City is effectively defending its territory against various direct competitors with different price positioning

• Spanning over 5 generations since the late 90s, the Honda City happens to be the oldest surviving nameplate in the Indian mass market passenger vehicle category (Mercedes E-Class, available since 1995, is the oldest in the luxury category)
• Among all the available sedans today, the Honda City is the second best-selling car, after the Maruti Dzire

• Introduced in 1998, the City accounted for 45% of sales of Honda in India
• With 8,59,756 copies sold, City remains the best-selling product in Honda India’s portfolio

Data: SIAM library

[ajayc123]

Originally Posted by pqr

[*]Two generations of Honda City with different price positioning are available with a choice of petrol 5MT(4th gen only)/6MT/CVT or hybrid e-CVT or diesel 6MT drivetrain

pqr

Thanks for the useful analysis.

Would you be able to say what was the sales figure for Honda City hybrid e-CVT in the reported period ?

[The Rationalist]

Sadly that won't be enough to survive in India! Sedans are on death bed, hardly account for 5% of monthly sales, don't know how long the sedans will last in our market. With no electric sedans in the pipeline the future looks grim. Honda has their work cut out.

[ajayc123]

I am just wondering why we can't have sedan on stilts like most of the pseudo suv's, that are lovingly kniwn as hatch on stilts.

[SoumenD]

Originally Posted by pqr

…In fact, Honda City, with ₹ 27,000 discounts on petrol only variants (94% mix), has nearly outperformed the VAG twins combined in July 2022[/list]

But the July 2022 sales thread states otherwise? Shows just 341 copies of honda city was sold? Or are the Jazz and City numbers interchanged in the thread?

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/india...ml#post5376431 (July 2022 : Indian Car Sales Figures & Analysis)

[Aditya]

Originally Posted by SoumenD

But the July 2022 sales thread states otherwise? Shows just 341 copies of honda city was sold? Or are the Jazz and City numbers interchanged in the thread?

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/india...ml#post5376431 (July 2022 : Indian Car Sales Figures & Analysis)

It was an error in the charts, which has been rectified. 3149 units of the City were sold.

[rajshenoy]

Originally Posted by ajayc123

I am just wondering why we can't have sedan on stilts like most of the pseudo suv's, that are lovingly kniwn as hatch on stilts.

SX4 was one such sedan. In fact Slavia/virtus have decent GC. Just back from long drive towards Goa and Mangalore in my corolla and I can say most of the Cretas and similar crossovers were behaving like sedans on these bad ghat roads and my fully loaded car only scraped couple of occasions(due to the long wheelbase) so to me, either body on frame UV or sedans. Crossovers are just pseudo ( sedan in UV form). However low slung sedans may be tricky on bad roads - city, Verna, Etios etc.

[Turbohead]

I don't think it's fair to compare Virrus/Slavia separately. Both are essentially the same car with slightly different flavours.

When you look at their sales cumulatively, it shows a very different picture- 50% of buyers in this segment are beginning to consider a VAG product seriously and are willing to put up with their sketchy ASC.

Also speaks of how competitive the products are. This is not true in the crossover segment where the Creta/Seltos have a good hold thanks to their packaging (baring safety of course)

In short, people are willing to take risks as long as it's a well rounded package compared to a few years ago.

[GTO]

Originally Posted by The Rationalist

Sadly that won't be enough to survive in India!

The Honda City is the king of the C2 sedan segment, and rightly so. It's got a 25-year old reputation in India as the "cannot go wrong" sedan. An all-rounder that pushes all the hot buttons. The City will always have enough sales for sustainability + success, but lesser (and especially older) competition will find the going tough.

Originally Posted by ajayc123

I am just wondering why we can't have sedan on stilts like most of the pseudo suv's, that are lovingly known as hatch on stilts.

Sub-4 meter benefits and the resultant volumes on those cars. But we do have many sedan-on-stilt cars as well = example, the Honda CR-V which shares its platform with the Civic, or the Tucson & Elantra platform.

Originally Posted by Turbohead

I don't think it's fair to compare Virrus/Slavia separately. Both are essentially the same car with slightly different flavours.

Fair point. But they do have their own identities, distinct styling, dealership network & even slightly different brand perceptions. We did always consider the Duster to be a success (in its heydays) and the Terrano a flop, didn't we?

[ninjatalli]

Originally Posted by Turbohead

I don't think it's fair to compare Virrus/Slavia separately. Both are essentially the same car with slightly different flavours.

When you look at their sales cumulatively, it shows a very different picture- 50% of buyers in this segment are beginning to consider a VAG product seriously and are willing to put up with their sketchy ASC.

Fair point. Also if the above report was being seen by someone from the VAG management, they wouldn't worry too much considering both Virrus & Slavia came from adjacent production lines from the same factory. And for prior 2022 timelines, they would then consider the Vento & Rapid to compare sales numbers against the City options available over time.

It would be also interesting to breakdown by fuel type to see how the City is faring against the VAG twins fuel-specific alternatives.

[thanixravindran]

Couple of points -

1. City is the golden standard for plush ride sedan for Urban dwellers. So it will be very tough to take away that image.

2. Since City has defended its volume against new entrants and new entrants volume itself is decent enough, where did they got their volume? Combination of outgoing Vento and Rapid volume Plus they took it away from other players like Ciaz and Verna. It is unlikely the sedan segment has expanded as per recent charts.

3. It will be interesting to see how much the 4th generation contributed to the City volumes as they pull the plug later this year. Getting a City below 10L ex showroom is a sweet deal for many.

[svmvale]

Originally Posted by Turbohead

I don't think it's fair to compare Virtus/Slavia separately. Both are essentially the same car with slightly different flavours.

When you look at their sales cumulatively, it shows a very different picture- 50% of buyers in this segment are beginning to consider a VAG product seriously and are willing to put up with their sketchy ASC.

In short, people are willing to take risks as long as it's a well rounded package compared to a few years ago.

I am also interested to the know the sales split of VAG in 1.0 TC AT & 1.5 DSG.

VAG have hit the sweet spot with the 1.0L Torque converter AT. Its nice to drive and much more reliable and much cheaper to maintain. Reliability wise, Torque converter units are anyways better anyway. Highway cruising at 100-120kmph, 1.0L AT is capable to handle without stress. Beyond that - you will feel the strain and will want the 1.5L engines.

Drove a friend's Virtus 1.5 DSG, it was very nice to drive. Ride and handling was well sorted. But obvious cost cutting is plainly visible. Having driven City 1.5 Zx CVT, unable to justify 4L premium.

[simplyself]

Originally Posted by ajayc123

I am just wondering why we can't have sedan on stilts like most of the pseudo suv's, that are lovingly kniwn as hatch on stilts.

Tata Zest was called just the same - CS on stilts But it didnt scrape even once in areas where the 'propah' CSes routinely scrape their respective bottoms.

Sedans with a bit more GC and tauter suspensions are needed. Not every one likes to drive an SUV/pseudo SUV !

[CEF_Beasts]

The City is a household name and the de-facto C-Segment sedan, it’s has a separate fan base and brand name over the last 25 years, just like how the Innova has built over the last 17 years.

The other sedans came in much later…

And very recently I drove my friend’s V CVT City 2021 MY and was blown away by how smooth the entire package is! Yes the NVH is not the best but in other aspects it’s a solid package; comfort, performance, space, GC is good as well and fuel economy!

I have driven the Virtus 1.5L DSG as well and the experience is poles apart!

The Virtus is more driver centric, City is more comfort oriented and family friendly.

[KL42]

To me, Slavia / Virtus has everything as car to take on Honda City. In fact its much better car to drive with few blemishes from an interior point of view. The perception of luxury that city offers in the interior is what is missing for the Skoda/VW cars. And yes, the most important point, give full assurance to customers on their DSG setups.

One more things the Skoda/VW should improve is the customer experience at some of their showrooms. Experience the treatment at some of the showrooms, you may never into one ever.

Bring these on par with Honda, I don't see why Slavia / Virtus shouldn't give a run for the money.