[adityapd]

Four luxury BMW cars, custom fitted for then prime minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee, have become a headache for the new government.

While Prime Minister Dr Manmohan Singh, known for his dislike for ostentation, is reluctantly using two of them, there are no takers for the rest.

The cars, that cost the government Rs 5 crore (Rs 50 million) a piece, are armoured vehicles capable of withstanding a landmine blast. They are fitted with latest security and communication equipment.

According to well placed sources, President A P J Abdul Kalam, Vice-President Bhairon Singh Shekhawat and Congress president Sonia Gandhi have all refused to use the cars.

S M Khan, the President's press secretary, said Rashtrapati Bhavan does not need the vehicle.

At the moment there is no such proposal with us. The President's fleet of cars is complete and he uses a Mercedes for travelling. Hence, we do not require any more vehicles, Khan told rediff.com

Why should the President touch the hot potato? Even the vice-president does not seem to be interested in them (the cars), a senior intelligence official said.

Sonia too has made clear her preference for Ambassador cars.

The four BMWs were bought about six months ago on advice from the Special Protection Group, which provides protection to the prime minister, his family, former prime ministers and their families.

Dr Singh, who drove a white Maruti 800 till he was appointed prime minister, was uncomfortable with the idea of moving around in a BMW. But the SPG put its foot down.

What must also bother Dr Singh is the fuel efficiency of these cars. According to sources, Vajpayee's office spent around Rs 20 lakh (Rs 2 million) these past six months on fuel for these automobiles.

Top Bharatiya Janata Party leaders now claim that only one BMW was initially ordered for use by Vajpayee. But SPG agents objected because a single BMW would have stood out like a sour thumb in a cavalcade of cars that the prime minister travels in and become a security nightmare.

That is one reason why Ambassador cars have been preferred for so long by Indian VIPs.

source : rediff.com

~A

[ajmat]

Being heaviliy armoured, they will not exactly be quick and fluid to drive - more like a charging elephant - most probably they will be used by visitors - or in a gesture - handed over to Musharaff for his safety !

[adityapd]

The greatest paradox about a beemer is that despite it being heavily advertised as " The Ultimate Driving Machine" you'll still find people who will shell out a couple of miilions to buy this car and then happily give it away to their chauffers to drive while they relax in the backseat...what do u think guys, wouldn't a DC stretched amby be more appropriate for such persons ??

~A

[S350L-E240]

Nice to see people atchually refuse using these cars,
And our dear prime minister is concerned abt fuel eff.
Hail M.Singh!

[v12]

if the PM wants to use an Amby its good. he cud use a PCB modded Amby. I guess they are the only private manufacturers of bulletproof vehicles in India.

[shravan316]

I think the car must be given to Musharraf like, Ajmat said....he needs it more than anyone....maybe even C.Naidu..

[aadix]

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (shravan316 @ June 11 2004,14:28)]....maybe even C.Naidu..

what will he do with it?
he already has 5 bullet proof ambys, 2 jammers and a fully bullet prooof suv, even though he is not the cm anymore!!!!

[_Crazi4Speed_]

c what bothers me with the pricetag is that its more than 1.1 mil USD, now how can that be, when a fully imported royal family style bullet proof bentley comes for 7 crores with duty and if I know the indian govt right, they wouldnt (need to) pay duty, so the 5 cr price tag is only bull.

anyhow its nice that MS is a down to earth guy, but whatever man..we r still screwed India has gone back 10 years..thats all I can say..

L8r

[GrimReaper]

supid damned government screwing us over. If i had control over which car to buy i would give him a damn fiat and made it bulletbroof. it wouldnt have cost more than 50 lakhs max for 5 of them and we would atleast save money for developmentin rural areas and not urban areas.

[@Debanshu_B]

Restarting the thread in the current scenario.

When can we expect a Indian car brand in the Prime Minister's cavalcade? Quoting 'Vocal for Local' Question to Mahindra and Tata

[saurabh2711]

Originally Posted by @Debanshu_B

Quoting 'Vocal for Local' Question to Mahindra and Tata

There are many Tata Safaris both Older one's and the Storms in the cavalcade. This can be seen and verified in Republic day parade's.
I am also told that Delhi is the land of Petrol Safari's. Mostly used by Ministers, i guess. Rahul Gandhi, Amit Shah have one.

Edit: Though not part of cavalcade - Storme is integral part of Indian army though. Just like Gypsys were earlier.

[audioholic]

Originally Posted by @Debanshu_B

Restarting the thread in the current scenario.

When can we expect a Indian car brand in the Prime Minister's cavalcade? Quoting 'Vocal for Local' Question to Mahindra and Tata

I might raise a debate over this but why should there be an Indian car brand? Is it for cost or just for patriotic reasons?

In general, we have brands like for example Mercedes Benz Guard and BMW protection vehicles who put a lot of effort in creating such armored vehicles which are as well packaged as a stock car coming out of the assembly line, and still of offering insane levels of protection based on the need. They invest quite some money into the development process and prepare such a product because of their global presence. It is not just one country's top brass or even citizens that would be interested to buy their products and hence, the miniscule numbers these cars would sell would still bring back some money to the company.

But if we want an Indian company to develop a product that would match the levels of these international brands, it would be impractical to do so. For a company like Tata and Mahindra, getting their mass production vehicles free of niggles and teething issues is their focus currently. In that scenario, if we expect them to bring out a luxury car which can withstand not only bullets but something more and package it as good as a mass production car, then I would say that is beyond optimistic levels. But as a support vehicle, we already see a lot of Scorpios and Safaris. I guess thats where thing should stop if we expect some practical thinking.

[Dry Ice]

Originally Posted by audioholic

I might raise a debate over this but why should there be an Indian car brand? Is it for cost or just for patriotic reasons?

In general, we have brands like for example Mercedes Benz Guard and BMW protection vehicles who put a lot of effort in creating such armored vehicles which are as well packaged as a stock car coming out of the assembly line, and still of offering insane levels of protection based on the need. They invest quite some money into the development process and prepare such a product because of their global presence. It is not just one country's top brass or even citizens that would be interested to buy their products and hence, the miniscule numbers these cars would sell would still bring back some money to the company.

But if we want an Indian company to develop a product that would match the levels of these international brands, it would be impractical to do so. For a company like Tata and Mahindra, getting their mass production vehicles free of niggles and teething issues is their focus currently. In that scenario, if we expect them to bring out a luxury car which can withstand not only bullets but something more and package it as good as a mass production car, then I would say that is beyond optimistic levels. But as a support vehicle, we already see a lot of Scorpios and Safaris. I guess thats where thing should stop if we expect some practical thinking.

Why should we not aspire to have our heads of state travel in an Indian car?

From what you say, we should not strive just because others have had a headstart?

Most heads of state travel around in a locally produced vehicle, don’t they? It’s also about making a statement, not just being practical. Such cars are purpose built, so what is the link with production cars?

Russians built this for Putin in 5 years

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OsIK52wF0Tk

[PG245]

Originally Posted by Dry Ice

Why should we not aspire to have our heads of state travel in an Indian car?

From what you say, we should not strive just because others have had a headstart?

Russians built this for Putin in 5 years https://m.Youtube.com/watch?v=OsIK52wF0Tk

Both Tata and Mahindra doesn't have cars to match the status of heads of state. So they will have to design and build these high-end cars just for this purpose. I don't see any benefits for the manufacturer in doing so.

I feel, instead of putting efforts in building these custom made cars for heads of state, Indian manufacturers can use those efforts in building niggle free cars for general public.

[audioholic]

Originally Posted by Dry Ice

Why should we not aspire to have our heads of state travel in an Indian car?

This is exactly why I mentioned if we look at it as an aspirational and patriotic matter compared to form, function and practicality. I understand you are on the former side whereas I'm on the latter. The two heads of state I know who travel in specially built vehicles are the President of the USA and Russia. Of course it is a matter of prestige. But given the current state of the home grown companies Tata and Mahindra, while they would definitely do something for the head of state if asked to do so, I really don't think that would hold a candle against say a Maybach Pullman Guard. I'm comparing that benchmark and if one day the PM decides he would go around in a beefed up Harrier or Safari or XUV700, then thats his decision. But that doesn't necessarily mean the product was better.

I have been a fan of at least Mahindra for taking a lot of steps forward and time and again bring new features and more exciting products to the masses being an entirely Indian company. Tata also to some extent. But building let's say ten cars of a kind of its own and satisfy the need, protection and reliability of a head of state is a challenge that these companies might attempt, but I can place my bets on them not being able to deliver. Case in question is the army who switched back to the humble gypsy whereas Tatas special stormes which were meant to phase out the Gypsy saw a different response. Expecting purpose built cars to surpass production cars in terms of reliability or performance is something I can't even imagine. Those who already have a well oiled production system and product portfolio are the ones who can pull out a few cars and convert them into a purpose built vehicle.

Then comes the cost part. If the manufacturer sends a huge bill to the government then we would have critics who would straightaway compare with ready made offerings and claim there is a scam. If the manufacturer has to send a sensible bill then they have to eat the losses. Thats where I mention about practicality.

I would like to conclude my side of this argument by stating that If I were a mass market manufacturer with zero presence in the SPV or Luxury industry, then I would not burn my hands and the time and effort of my R&D team on such a project. There are a lot of other areas I could spend the same and reap bigger benefits. Let's admit, those who got a headstart are still ahead in the game. And in the automotive industry, they are at least a decade or two ahead in various aspects. And developing a special vehicle for a head of state is not how the company would strive forward by that much of time. These special vehicles are just a by product of the overall advancement that Mercedes or BMW have made over the years and not their prime showcase area.

So maybe 10 years later let's hope to see a Tata or Mahindra being the official car for the PM or President. Until then,