[ruzbehxyz]

Originally Posted by apachelongbow

I don't know what's all this song and dance about a 4×4? Hope we are aware that 95% of all Indian terrain can be crossed by a hatchback, leave alone a SUV.

Originally Posted by Slushmaster

The song and dance of 4x4 happens when the owner wants to go off road and it is not for everyone.
Sorry if my post offends you, I don't want to disrespect any fellow Bhpian. But, the reason TBHP exists is because people love automobiles, fast cars, jeeps, sedans, family cars and those 4x4s that take us to those 1% places.

Every now and then there are “so called SUVs” getting stuck on what everyone calls normal roads. There are various slushy areas or nallas in the Himalayas or even on proper National highways where these so called SUVs get stuck. Then they are pulled out by a truck or a vehicle of the BRO. While on the other hand a normal 4x4 or even an AWD would sail over. We regularly see locals cross such areas in their old Maruti 800 or a Celerio or similar vehicle. That’s mainly because they have done that road many times and know each and every turn and tricky point.

Whether it's 5% or 1% of roads, it really does not matter. It's what the car enthusiast wants. 4×4 always has the added advantage when you travel on overlanding trails or remote areas of the Himalayas on terrain which is unknown to you, especially when you travel alone. Even if 1% of the roads in India need 4×4, I would still buy a 4×4 simply because I want to drive on those roads where normal 4x2 vehicles can't go. And sometimes these trips become trips of a lifetime with memories to cherish.

Typical example: https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/trave...avour-4x4.html (Zanskar and Pangi Valley | Drive to the unknown in my Endeavour 4x4)

[4x4addict]

I am not going to vote, because frankly I think this is a wasted thread. This company who chest thumbs the so called "Land Rover" heritage has all SUVs without a 4WD or AWD option.

Besides the 4WD mantel in Indian manufacturers belongs to Mahindra. Since the AWD/4WD market is probably under 10% in India, I am glad that Tata has graciously left this piece of the pie exclusively to Mahindra, so Mahindra can recover their additional development costs for the 4WD/AWD platform without Tata's eating into their pie.

Tata, please go after the small hatches from Maruti, please leave the SUV space to Mahindra.

[THE-U-]

As a former owner of a Safari Dicor EX 4x4, I am glad Tata got out of the 4x4 space giving me another reason to stay far away from them. The Safari was a very comfortable vehicle and I have jumped over medians, drove over makeshift muddy road barriers and gravelly private hill roads. However, the Safari did leave us stranded multiple times as it started aging and spent more time in the shop than on the road. Tata needs to first figure out how to make reliable cars and fix issues with their dealerships and service centers. I am not convinced the company is capable of making good quality cars.

Now, if they start making a reasonably priced 4x4 body on frame, Chevy Tahoe/ GMC Yukon/ Cadillac Escalade class of SUVs that will munch miles in comfort, they might just have me back (there isn't a snowball's chance in hell of that happening though).

[nainan]

I think the Tata story is one of making extreme decisions then over-correction:-

• When the Safari finally had the engine(2.2 VTT) it deserved and a fan following built over time they let be and focused on the Aria
• The overdid the crossover bit in Aria, gave it the Indica smile and launched it at a premium
• They stripped down the Aria completely and hoped it will sell
• They finally turned back to the Safari and for some inexplicable reason kept the same dated look
• They turned out the brilliant Hexa(ride, automatic) but with MUV looks and not mating that brilliant automatic with a AWD/4x4
• Finally realizing that looks matter launched the Harrier with mediocre specs, high pricing and left out the AWD/4x4 and killed the VARICOR while claiming LR pedigree
• Re-launched the Harrier with all the differentiation planned for the Safari to save the Harrier
• Launched the Safari but with so little differentiation that its practically a 7 seat Harrier
  

IMHO if they had concentrated on the Safari brand and capitalized on the pricing gap for 7 seaters and a 4wd/awd it could have been a runaway success

By the by Tatas at the moment have the biggest and most successful crop of SUVs including electric in the country with the hatches on stilts(Nexon & Punch) leading the pack. What Tata needs is to add AWD on all its SUVs, better engines and above all carry over the VFM characteristics from the smaller siblings to the larger ones.

I might be in a minority opinion here but if the Range Rover/Defender can be unibody why should a BoF be an essential.

Also I have never found any of the recent Mahindras(have not driven the XUV 700 or the Thar) exciting to drive.

Having owned a 2.2 DICOR I have been occasionally stuck in places where a 4WD could have helped in and around cities. Not something I knew when I purchased it and the sales person actively discouraging it did not help

If there was an option I would have forked out the money when I purchased my new Safari.

[Altrozed]

I dont want a car on the road which I would never but would always wanna complain or rant about.
Reasons Apart, Nano was launched, public mocked it and the same public wants it in E- Avatar.
Aria was launched, it was ahead of time and money. Flunked.
Hexa was launched, people were worried a lot about the last seat not folding fully flat(you all know what I meant) & want it in BS6 Avatar today.

Nexon was launched and in few lines of review, Mods have written that there is no chance for AWD. Thankfully, Nexon was successful and incremental in sales too.

Altroz came with a poor engine, they gave you a iturbo engine and then they gave a DCA also and now we want iturbo + DCA + 6 Airbags and at what price ? They forgot their honest attempt with JYP twins.

So, similar things happen even for AWD/4WD. Every body would ask for such a thing but not many would buy. The one's who buy can be counted on fingers.
Lets not bring M&M successful cars here. Their XUV3OO or Alturas dont even come with their new LOGO.

Tata is doing well on their fronts and I sincerely pray that they go in their paths.
"Puli ni choosi nakka vaatha pettukundi" Is an old Telugu phrase where a fox would set it burns to look like a tiger. Wish TML doesnt do that.

[DicKy]

Originally Posted by Altrozed

Reasons Apart, Nano was launched, public mocked it and the same public wants it in E- Avatar.

Singur issue, marketing failure, poor PR work regarding the fires. At the fag end, the Nano was actually doing good, but Tata wanted nothing to do with their past and stopped it. Just check the used prices (or even availability) of the Nano AMT with power steering. They are HOT in the market now.

Originally Posted by Altrozed

Aria was launched, it was ahead of time and money. Flunked.

Usual Tata niggles apart, they simply couldn't position it right. Ofcourse it had AWD, 6 airbags and the works, but it looked like an Innova rival, not a Fortuner rival. Heck, the monocoque FWD XUV500 looks more SUVish to people than the AWD BoF Aria. They should have either made it an Innova rival MPV, or designed it like a Safari plus with the Aria underpinnings. Overpriced and killed it.

Originally Posted by Altrozed

Hexa was launched, people were worried a lot about the last seat not folding fully flat(you all know what I meant) & want it in BS6 Avatar today.

The shortcomings were what they carried over from the Aria. It was selling decently and people still find it hard to replace their Hexas. What did Tata do? Failed to update the 2.2l to BS6 for passenger vehicles and phased out the Hexa.

Originally Posted by Altrozed

Nexon was launched and in few lines of review, Mods have written that there is no chance for AWD. Thankfully, Nexon was successful and incremental in sales too.

No chance of AWD with the X1 platofrm and no need too given the segment doesn't have any. That is not the case with the Harrier/ Harrier+.

Originally Posted by Altrozed

Altroz came with a poor engine, they gave you a iturbo engine and then they gave a DCA also and now we want iturbo + DCA + 6 Airbags and at what price ? They forgot their honest attempt with JYP twins.

They should have given the iTurbo+ DCA+ 6 airbags at launch itself. Not years after. They wanted to stupidly protect the Nexon from cannibalisation when it was the Altroz that needed protection in the high riding mania market. Yes, the JTP was honest. But limited network, confused setup and to end it all, Tata bought the whole thing and stopped.

Originally Posted by Altrozed

So, similar things happen even for AWD/4WD. Every body would ask for such a thing but not many would buy. The one's who buy can be counted on fingers.
Lets not bring M&M successful cars here. Their XUV3OO or Alturas dont even come with their new LOGO.

Maybe stop harping the Land Rover heritage then. If the main rival offers it, then people will ask for it. Motorsports seldom makes money for mainstream manufaturers, why do they bother then?

Not sure of the Alturas, but I am pretty sure that the XUV300 has the new logo.

[/quote]

[apachelongbow]

Originally Posted by Slushmaster

Absolutely right Why people buy camping gear in India, there are hotels in the remotest corners of India. Even for the places where there are no decent hotels or lodges, people can just use sticks and canvas cloth for shelter.

Why are people buying DSLR cameras these days, almost 99% of photos can be clicked by mobile phone cameras. Why spend lakhs just capturing that 1%..

Why are people buying fast cars with high BHP and torque numbers in India, when the cheapest car in India can reach 120KMPH which is the highest legal speed.

The song and dance of 4x4 happens when the owner wants to go off road and it is not for everyone.

Sorry if my post offends you, I don't want to disrespect any fellow Bhpian. But, the reason TBHP exists is because people love automobiles, fast cars, jeeps, sedans, family cars and those 4x4s that take us to those 1% places.

It's still a song and a dance with no substance. Reflected by the poor sales of hard-core 4×4.

[fhdowntheline]

Originally Posted by apachelongbow

It's still a song and a dance with no substance. Reflected by the poor sales of hard-core 4×4.

Well most of our needs are still satisfied by cars that cost below 10 lac. Same goes for phones costing less than 20K. A couple with a kid do not need a 4BHK and so on. And we were just fine traveling by train for 27 hours from Bombay to Madras by Madras Mail, 30 years ago. No one really understands what man discovered on the Moon. But yet, we continue to probe our solar system. So what's a humble 4x4 transmission compared to all this ? Let people have fun!

[Slushmaster]

Originally Posted by apachelongbow

It's still a song and a dance with no substance. Reflected by the poor sales of hard-core 4×4.

Again, its not meant for everyone and it's ok. Poor sale or lower numbers is again because it is not everyone's cup of tea.

[anil_rnair]

Interestingly, N.Chandrasekaran did mention about considering a new SUV in the AGM held this year. It is mentioned in the site - gaadiwaadi. Sorry, I could not find this anywhere else and not sure about its reliability.
https://gaadiwaadi.com/tata-4x4-suv-...ecome-reality/

[satish.gawai]

Big YES.
Still, remember the time of the old safari with 4x4. This is a wish list to have 4x4 on at least capable vehicles like Harrier & Safari.

Now comes the 2nd side which is commercial viability. Is it worth investing in developing a 4x4, looking at the number of buyers? But again, if there is market and competition is providing, Tata has to provide.

[DRPSREDDY]

Tata Motors’ ATLAS architecture can support 4X4 capability

AUTOCAR INDIA report

Tata says ATLAS architecture has 'genuine SUV capabilities' with high ground clearance and large wheel sizes.

Originally Posted by AUTOCAR INDIA

Tata Motors says that while ATLAS can underpin various body styles like MPVs and even sedans, it has been optimised for ‘genuine SUV capabilities’. In a post-launch interview, Mohan Savarkar, Chief Product Officer and Vice President at Tata Motors Passenger Vehicles limited, said “To answer your 4x4 question, yes it [ATLAS] can be made 4x4 with some changes.”

Finally the TATA Motors new architecture ATLAS platform can deliver cars with 4X4. This has been announced by TATA Motors team. So does this mean that they are backing down on their word about completely exiting the All wheel drive/4X4 SUVs and planning to launch new cars? With the slow down on EVs and quite decent sales of other company 4x4s and renewed interests on exports, Tata Motors is having a rethink on the space. Alternatively they are planning the jointly use this platform with Jaguar Land Rover to make mid range cars for Jaguar and Land Rover. So they will need to make Hybrids and AWD cars and for that very reason, they need the platform capable for 4X4 offerings.

Originally Posted by AUTOCAR INDIA

Moreover, with the next-gen Nexon slated to use the ATLAS architecture and likely the Sierra too, the 4x4 possibilities with an ICE powertrain are interesting. Other SUV traits possible are a larger tyre size with Savarkar saying that ATLAS can accommodate a tyre size with an outer diameter of up to 740mm which could thus manage rims up to about 20-inch in diameter. Tata Motors also says that ATLAS can underpin vehicles between 3.7 meters and 4.7 meters in length with varying wheelbase and width.

Atlas architecture can support 4x4 capability

[ruzbehxyz]

No 4x4 but at least AWD is coming.



Tata Motors has patented its new terrain mode selector dial. This new rotary dial for selecting different terrain modes is set to debut with the upcoming Harrier EV, which will be the first Tata model in the current portfolio to be offered with an AWD system.
Source: Carwale.