[JLS]

Originally Posted by Vtach

Not sure if expecting airbags to be the ultimate death proof guarantee is really a wise way of driving about. They are SRS, the first S standing for secondary. Primary remains the driver & his/her actions in that situation.
-/-Snip -/-
If the vehicle toppled over multiple times after the impact as per the FIR, it must've been travelling at a considerable speed. Shouldn't one drive slow if there's dense fog, in one's own life's interest?
-/-Snip -/-

1. I believe primary restraint system is seat belt and secondary restraint system is airbags
2. Airbags should have deployed when vehicle hit the divider
3. Were there only frontal airbags or side / curtain airbags as well? If side airbags were there, they should deploy on side impact or roll over I believe

Just a thought - should government make side airbags mandatory for SUVs or all vehicles with a taller stance where rollover possibilities are high ?

Thanks
JLS

[GeeTee TSI]

Originally Posted by Aviator_guy

Child seat is not supposed to be in front seat due to airbags and the manufacturer warning also says that. So why would there be a feature to encourage that and play with everyone's safety

This is what Volvo says here
"OFF - the airbag is deactivated and children in rear-facing child seats can sit safely on the passenger seat."

[Aviator_guy]

Originally Posted by GeeTee TSI

This is what Volvo says here
"OFF - the airbag is deactivated and children in rear-facing child seats can sit safely on the passenger seat."

Thanks. This only refers to the front passenger side airbag deactivation so looks like there is no switch to deactivate other airbags. That's a relief

Also it does not help the argument someone had put earlier that cars with 6/8 airbags should deactivate airbags in slow speed driving to avoid false deployment.

[mav3r1ckblu3]

Originally Posted by aseem23

FIR registered against Mahindra chairman in Kanpur, UP.

Rajesh Mishra, a UP's Kanpur resident, gifted Mahindra Scorpio S9 to his son Apoorv Mishra. On 14 January 2022, Apoorv returning to Kanpur from Lucknow in Scorpio met with an accident and died. He was wearing the seat belt but the airbag didn't open. Rajesh Mishra alleged he found out that there was no airbag installed in the vehicle. Mishra moved a local court and now an FIR has been registered against Mahindra Chairman Anand Gopal Mahindra and 12 others.

Source: https://twitter.com/Benarasiyaa/stat...52237692170547

It seems Mahindra has responded:

Mahindra officially says, “Mahindra & Mahindra would like to clarify with respect to an FIR that was filed on September 23, 2023. The case is over 18 months old, and the said incident happened in January 2022.

It was alleged that the vehicle did not have airbags. We would hence like to categorically reconfirm that the Scorpio S9 variant manufactured in 2020 did have airbags. We have investigated and there was no malfunction of the airbags. It was a rollover case which would not deploy the frontal airbags.

A detailed technical investigation was completed by our teams in October 2022.

The matter is currently sub judice and we are committed to cooperating with the authorities for any further investigation that is required. We completely empathise with the family and offer our deepest condolences to them in their grief.”

Source:
https://www.cartoq.com/mahindra-resp...not-deploying/

[roy_libran]

We have investigated and there was no malfunction of the airbags. It was a rollover case which would not deploy the frontal airbags.

I hope we, hapless consumers, can actually know when to expect Airbags to deploy on Mahindra vehicles (this case, the old XUV case, and so many more), so that we can make sure we perform the 'accident' in the correctly prescribed manner as per the owner's manual!

[Freespirit27]

There is far too much speculations here. I had heard of a family way back in 2013 who thank there miraculous escape to the safety features - seatbelt restraint & airbags of a XUV in a near frontal collision with a rollover. The car was beyond repair.
FIRs don't take time the legal advice requiring the FIR as the start point would have come up when the case was decided to be filed.
Like someone said belts and airbags are not magic shields, they just increase the chances of survival in a crash. And to test that they have the NCAP ratings and now BharatCAP. If it passes that and still, an accident happens then obviously some parameters were not met for deployment or a malfunction happened.
Either ways, doesn't getting into crash scenarios, especially running over dividers and such, need care on the part of the driver too. How is negligence in driving being ruled out here!
The company will defend its stand and evidences will prove the case but till that time, directly assuming a assembly line process in doubt or even ruling out a maintenance lapse and straight away going for the 'jugular' and filing a case on the brand owner can raise enough doubts!
This is not like Boeing Max or similar cascading and collective failures- it is an individual and a particular vehicle(not even the entire range). A similar series of fires in cars in Kerala was reported in news with majority of cases being attributed to improper electrical modifications and one case of carrying inflammable items in the car.
Long time back even large no. of fire incidents in Nano boiled down to people rampantly adding accesories and bypassing fuses and in few cases inefficient heat shielding in a novelty rear engined vehicle.
It would be wise for us wait for a verdict going either which ways or some alternate facts being presented!

[tracerspiff]

As someone who has worked for a company that makes airbags, I have seen many presentations on this. I have had many detailed conversations with the folks who write the code for the ABS module.
From what I could understand, the ABS module needs inputs from various sensors like wheel speed sensor, engine speed sensor, accelerometer, body roll sensor, impact sensor in the bumpers, seatbelt sensor, passenger sensor(weight) under the seat, etc.

There are tens of thousands of lines of code that go into the ECU. In order for the airbags to deploy, a combination of criteria must be satisfied. In many circumstances, airbag deployment will cause more injuries than prevent them.

In case of a rollover, the top of the car is going to get crushed and if the airbag were to deploy in this condition, it would crush the driver's head.

Airbags are a supremely useful technology and have saved countless lives but they are effective in only certain situations. The best way to stay safe is to drive safely.

[kaps454]

Originally Posted by Vtach

Not sure if expecting airbags to be the ultimate death proof guarantee is really a wise way of driving about. They are SRS, the first S standing for secondary. Primary remains the driver & his/her actions in that situation.

The "S" stands for Supplemental, not secondary. Airbags are supposed to supplement seat-belts to enhance occupant safety. Why the accident happened and whose fault is it has no bearing to why the airbags did not open? They are two separate issues.
regards kaps454

[Old_Salt]

There are many reasons when airbags wont deploy in a frontal collision.

Defective airbag sensors, electrical problems due to issue with the wiring connecting the sensors to the airbags.
IIRC, I had read a case where the wiring connecting the control system to the airbags had severed during a crash and the airbags didn't deploy.
This can happen if the wiring is routed through areas that are particularly vulnerable during a front-end collision.

Also,the airbags will not deploy during an accident if they weren’t replaced after a previous crash. Plausible explanation in this case of "missing airbag"?
Dont know, as the family maintains that the car didn't have airbags, and Mahindra claims they were there, so where did the airbag go?

[Sahil00090]

How is this possible that airbags are not being deployed in many Mahindra cars. This has become quite often read it seems. I hope Mahindra does a thorough investigation and share reason why it didn't deploy, if indeed the car had them, which I don't doubt but they should give the response.

[Kln]

Wow, the explanation looks even worse. 'The car has toppled and not crashed head on, please select the proper way to die if you want out air bags to save you' is not a good look.

Look, airbags working or not is a separate issue. This sort of explanation, even if honest and right and all, is horrible.

What is Mahindra supposed to do, you ask? Keep mum, engage with the victim, and move on. A press release with the title 'we have reached out to the bereaved and they have our full condolences' is better.

[sidoxic]

Thank you for sharing this with the forum. This is the post everyone should be reading here

Originally Posted by tracerspiff;5633b245

As someone who has worked for a company that makes airbags, I have seen many presentations on this.
...
In case of a rollover, the top of the car is going to get crushed and if the airbag were to deploy in this condition, it would crush the driver's head.

Airbags are a supremely useful technology and have saved countless lives but they are effective in only certain situations. The best way to stay safe is to drive safely.

Any impact should be able to trigger all the airbags and magically save lives is incorrect & gross over simplification. No doubt airbags have been scientifically proven to save lives, but it will not be effective in each and every crash. There is a lot of science & testing behind the scenes before the airbags, sensors and software make it to the assembly line.

The sensors & ECUs have to be built with a logic to predict the usefulness of deploying airbags in realtime during a collision. It should not over-zealously deploy the airbags where it doesn't offer any benefit. It can cause more harm if triggered when not necessary.
For example, on our Indian roads, I'm sure all of us encounter minor impacts and damages and we drive off after a few exchange of words. An airbag deployment in these cases would not only cut short your trip, ruin your day, take a few days of downtime at the workshop and a cost a couple of thousands - and this is a best case scenario. Worst case scenario - driver can't see ahead as the vision is blocked by the bags and the fumes - this can cause a lot more damage to life and property.

Bottom-line is we have to acknowledge that it's a fine balancing act which the designers of airbags are doing here. While we should absolutely question the corporations, keep them accountable via lawsuits etc, but we shouldn't expect infinite protection in collisions even from all the safety features combined - even if it's in the top most variant of the most expensive car.

Even more important bottom-line here is (with zero judgment to the deceased or M&M) - drive like you have no airbags to save you.

[dsuman]

My thoughts are with the deceased person's father.
There are various possibilities
1. Police did not file an FIR since it was against a corporate. Local dealerships are primarily owned by bigshots and they manage things.
2. Airbags may have been stolen when parked at Police Station after the accident. Family would have been busy with last rites in which case thinking about a car is least priority. Initial investigation must have happened a little late which makes a vehicle and its components parked in a police station vulnerable to thefts. Hence father's claims of absent airbags.
3. As far as Mahindra guys threatening is concerned, I am sure there would have been big arguments/cussing by both parties. No one just starts cussing and threatening a customer let alone a grieving father.

I would not fault the Father and M&M. Both have their rationale for taking their stand.

I am sure a father who lost his son will not find rationale in any explanations. The father is looking for an answer and a closure. He will have zillion thoughts and possibilities in his mind. At the end of the day his son is not in front of him.

An automobile is a non living thing where its brain is an ECU which itself needs to be told/programmed to send instructions and its a simple case of receiving instructions in 0's and 1's. It can never replicate a human brain.

I hope M&M can atleast send someone over to the father and explain in a more humane way. Public statement is fine but you need a personal touch in this case.

We have read many stories of fatal accidents in Luxury cars where all safety features worked but people perished. Best example- Mr. Cyrus Mistry Accident.

[Kishoreshack]

Originally Posted by kiku007

Contrary to what you may think, Airbag deployment is controlled by a number of factors. If you do own a vehicle with SRS Airbags I would recommend you read the Manual.

It's difficult for me to understand that people are talking about so much technical stuff that they forget about the fact airbags are supposed to save lives. They need to be deployed when it's needed the most. Irrespective of what you say or what Mahindra says we need to acknowledge the fact that someone lost life a precious life, much more than a company that doesn't pay attention to Quality Control

[AutoNoob]

Originally Posted by tracerspiff

As someone who has worked for a company that makes airbags... In many circumstances, airbag deployment will cause more injuries than prevent them... In case of a rollover, the top of the car is going to get crushed and if the airbag were to deploy in this condition, it would crush the driver's head... Airbags are a supremely useful technology and have saved countless lives but they are effective in only certain situations.

Thanks for putting out the ground facts in such lucid way. I too am from automotive background and fully understand your points. There's always a operational limitation for every system. And for systems like seat-belts and airbags it's always a fine balance of multiple factors.

During accidents, even seat belts have been known to cause crush injuries to thorax of occupants. So, fine balance is required in calibrating pre-tensioners and load limiters.

Same is the case of airbags. They are explosive driven. Deployment in wrong conditions can cause more harm.

Originally Posted by Kln

Wow, the explanation looks even worse. 'The car has toppled and not crashed head on, please select the proper way to die if you want out air bags to save you' is not a good look. Look, airbags working or not is a separate issue.

This sort of explanation, even if honest and right and all, is horrible. What is Mahindra supposed to do, you ask? Keep mum, engage with the victim, and move on. A press release with the title 'we have reached out to the bereaved and they have our full condolences' is better.

I agree, it could have been worded in much more empathetic manner. Not just a corporate speak.

Originally Posted by Kishoreshack

It's difficult for me to understand that people are talking about so much technical stuff that they forget about the fact airbags are supposed to save lives. They need to be deployed when it's needed the most.

Originally Posted by roy_libran

I hope we, hapless consumers, can actually know when to expect Airbags to deploy on Mahindra vehicles (this case, the old XUV case, and so many more), so that we can make sure we perform the 'accident' in the correctly prescribed manner as per the owner's manual!

Sir, airbags have their limitations. They are saving and will save lives in many situations, however, not in every situation. That's a fact.

My own family member met serious accident last year. The airbags on the vehicle didn't deploy. Luckily he was saved by a whisker, though had clotting in brain. The first reaction of family was to sue the manufacturer. However, I explained that it was a rear under-run with a truck (70% from co-driver side was under truck). Though bonnet, A-pillar and roof is ripped, airbags wouldn't have deployed in this scenario. The truck driver/ company could have been sued for not having RUPD. Finally, after lot of deliberations, family decided against any legal action.

Originally Posted by Kishoreshack

a company that doesn't pay attention to Quality Control

Originally Posted by Sahil00090

How is this possible that airbags are not being deployed in many Mahindra cars. This has become quite often read it seems. I hope Mahindra does a thorough investigation and share reason why it didn't deploy, if indeed the car had them, which I don't doubt but they should give the response.

Even I have noticed quite a few instances of airbags not deploying on Mahindra vehicles. Few instances are there on this forum itself. And, in such situations, I feel helpless as there is no proper investigation body in India (akin to NHTSA etc.) and legal system too slow and class-action type suits are almost impossible.