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-   -   Should we approach AMTs as manuals instead of automatics? (https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian-car-scene/271688-should-we-approach-amts-manuals-instead-automatics-3.html)

I've driven an AMT equipped rental Swift, few months back. I consciously chose the AMT, to experience the tech. This was my first tryst with a auto gear shift gearbox. Despite being abused by various drivers, the drive was surprisingly good. The gear shift was smooth, contrary to many experiences shared here. Yes, it is not meant for spirited driving and you do feel the vehicle being hesitant to it. But, if you solely want a gearbox that shifts gearbox for you and you want to not use your left leg, there's nothing wrong in considering AMTs.

People who bash AMTs left, right & centre have never really understood its purpose of existing!
I always see complaints about 'head-nod', mostly these are from people who expect TC & CVT levels of smoothness; That's never gonna happen!
See the AMT for what it is, a cheap solution to an ever increasing problem of traffic congestion.
Learn to drive an AMT properly, master the art of lifting off the throttle during shifts & it becomes almost as smooth as conventional autos.

5 years back I was looking for a automatic hatchback in 8-9 lac price bracket. Finally I ended up choosing a Swift AMT over a Baleno CVT as I prioritized access to power over a smooth, whiny and boring drive.

Once the new car euphoria waned off in a month or two, I realize that I'll not be at peace ever with AMT's. And to make matters worse the AMT was getting jerkier as days passed.

I still own the car, have clocked 35,000 kms and serves as a secondary car. To date I hate the AMT tech- just too crude. Yes, you do get a manual mode, it helps, and you can have 80% of the fun you have with manuals. But for it's intended use case as an automatic, AMT's suck.

What is an automatic transmission? It is a device that changes the drive ratio of a vehicle as required without driver intervention. By that definition AMT's (Along with CVT, TC & DSG/DCT) are indeed automatics.

The gears are also being operated by the robot.

If the gear ratios are be changed without driver intervention, it is working like an automatic should.

I and my wife drive a Nios AMT. This is the only AMT we test drove and finalized the vehicle. We bought this car purely for convenience. I do face head nod and all as people have mentioned but we are not enthusiasts so we don't car. We need car for kids to go to school and wife wants to go somewhere.
We are very satisfied with the car and we treat it as "automatic".
For mango people like me who wants a vehicle for convenience, AMTs are great.

AMT gets a lot of negativity for obvious reasons. However, Hyundai's AMT does the best job in delivering convenience and cost effectiveness at same time IMO.

A lot of 1st hand experienced members showcasing the same that AMT indeed is a boon, helps to drive at ease. This is what AMT is for. Log out and see that people will not even know what is AMT. They don't change gears and that itself is automatics.

And experienced members also opinioning the same that we need to learn and understand how to get the best out of AMT.
Yes, if you want automatic and if AMT is a choice you are preferring, drive it carefully for few days to get complete understanding of its behavior.

People have clocked have 1000s of miles and it's evident that they have got it very clear else we people don't wait to sell it out off for peace .

1. IMO, AMT manufactures, should allow the user to configure the gear shifts. i.e. at which RPM / Speed, it should upshift OR downshift, instead of providing predefined configurations. These configurations could be provided in the center display console itself. This will solve lot of problems.

2. AMT manufactures can also provide paddle shift, instead of Manual Mode, so that I can shift UP / DOWN while driving in the Auto Mode. This will be a real boon, as I dont have to change between Manual & Auto Mode.

I drive Triber AMT and I prefer AMT anyday over Manual Transmission and I dont mind the head nod. But I have drive as per how my gear box is programmed. Not the way I want to. And I guess the above 2 points, will address most of the problems with AMT.

An AMT is called automated manual transmission so that is what it is, it is automated and it is manual. So without trying to play with words, it depends on how you look at it as it is not manual. To me the iMT offered by Koreans is more manual as you will need to constantly change gears(intelligent manual)

I am a happy user of Maruti AMT(AGS) on my alto K10 for last 5+ years (around 30k kms), I agree with most of you on the lag but I mostly drive manual cars and since day one drove it like one. To me it is all about convenience and practicality(and lot of $$$ saved). As a car lover, I enjoy what I drive and treat the machine the way it should be treated.

AMT is sensitive to our throttle input. Maruti has tuned it for efficiency. In fact I have seen it eagerly upshift if I am light footed but it does maintain the same gear(say 3 or 4) if I am bit heavy on the throttle for those quick overtaking.

My trick - As the RPM rise above 2K, lift my foot off the accelerator and the shift is butter smooth, This is exactly what we use when we change gear too and AMT is much much faster than manual shifting(different perspective).

Bonus trick - as the AMT auto mode only shifts when the RPM are over 2K(both up/down) I mostly switch to manual once I hit 5th gear and let it cruise and it does not downshift unless RPM falls below 1.5K.

AMT is also sensitive to throttle and decides to downshift if the RPM is low and we provide hard accelerator and that is what feels pretty jerky due to the lag.

So let me ask instead, what is an automatic - Is it a CVT, a torque converter or a dual clutch (DCA, DSG etc)

The answer may lie in your question - they are both and better than iMTs. In starting traffic you can definitely switch to manual mode (if the traffic's not heavy) and after 3rd switch to Auto. Plus of course the great benefit of having your left hand free to fiddle with the ICE, and your left foot free to tap to the music as in autos.

Finally - they're cheaper than CVTs/DCTs, and a lot easier than iMTs to park as you pointed out!:Cheering:

When I bought my AMT Tiago, I was left very frustrated with the driving experience. However after doing an oil swap from the AMT reservoir, and a gear oil change, I am widely grinning. The AMT works very smoothly and gearshifts are nearly unnoticed.

I also discovered a new feature of it, more than a year after driving. The gears respond to kick down and rev up to 5000rpm! I never saw it happen before the service. Overtaking in an AMT seemed to be nearly as effortless than a paddle downshift on a CVT or TC

My point being, a proper servicing of both these oils is ESSENTIAL. Sealed for life is a scam by the companies to ruin the mechanicals and send the cars to an early grave.

I can safely comment that AMT cars are not akin to manuals, if you service them properly.

https://youtu.be/TJ-2On8_uUg?si=o0-H--rE69REG9GG

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/diy-d...ata-tiago.html

Recently got an opportunity to drive my sister's Tata Punch AMT for a trip to Delhi to Uttarakhand and back, driving approx. 700kms to and fro . Here are some of my observations on how to properly utilize AMT's.

1. AMT's are much better suited to anemic TATA petrol engines, literally with the help of AMT only, car didn't stall on hills, we all know TATA's NA petrol engine doesn't produce much power in lower gears.

2. Fuel economy is lower than manual, the AMT tend to upshift at 2.5k-3k RPM which lowers fuel economy.

3. Manual mode works like a charm and now whenever I drive the vehicle I shift it to manual mode but still there is some lag but head nods are zero, which results in smooth shifting of gears plus better economy. But there is still always a beep if we tend to upshift before 2k rpm which was many times annoying.

4. I was not sure but Punch creative model has hill ascent control as literally while facing traffic uphill car was not moving backwards which gave added benefit plus in MT it leads to burning of clutch as well.

So all in all even though AMT might not be considered as fully automatic but still they provide utility and will suggest over manual if running is majorly in cities.

I respect your train of thought but I beg to differ. This actually makes it a lot more complicated! One does not get the precision and choice of a manual as you cannot skip-shift. You will always have to look down and check whether you are in manual mode or auto. Overtaking is now a 2-step process where who switch to manual and then reach the correct gear.

The AMT in manual mode, by design, will hold the revs and not shift up. But it will shift down when revs drop- what if I want to remain in a higher gear and coast to hypermile?

I actually test rode the Nexon AMT before settling on an iMT Sonet. Equipment list aside, I was actually fascinated when I discovered that the car will shift according to the revs even in manual mode. But muscle memory hit me hard and I was revving to 4000 rpm like a fool on the next light.

BTW Mr May’s car in the attached video lacked a very important feature which is present in current IMTs - creep mode. It solves everything.

Also sir, one should not fiddle with ICE when driving. It should be done when the car is stationary. :)

I drive an AMT Swift. I also own a Tiago EV. So I'm well aware what I am into. The 'M' mode works great whenever you need that extra bit of control yet does most of the work itself. That said, I leave the car in 'D' mode all the time unless I'm driving on the hills. AMT needs no thinking or fiddling even during critical over taking - it shifts a gear or two down depending on the throttle input. It is not smooth like a TC or CVT. But I don't care and I don't expect it to be. To me AMT shifts better than how most people would shift a MT. IMO it's practical and proven - companies sell so many cars equipped with AMT. Most of the qualms about AMT are nothing but "opinions" that people express by reading too much online reviews and are not first-hand experiences.

So much has been said about AMT here. Still will add my few points. I am using following AMTs now:
1. Tata Nano XTA: Our city ride, daily office commuter for past 7 years.
2. Swift ZXi AGS: Used by my father, and by me when I visit Kerala
3. WagonR VXi AGS: Used by my father-in-law, and by me when I visit Kerala
4: Brezza ZXi AGS: Sister-in-law’s car, used occasionally by me also.

Also used/using the following AT/CVT:
1. XUV 5OO W7 AT: Office car, was with me for nearly 1.5 years and traveled a lot south of Pune all the way till Kerala.
2. Honda City SV CVT: Our main family ride for almost 4-5 years (pre owned). Just sold last week.
3. All new Hyundai Verna SX(O) IVT: Taking delivery day after tomorrow.

AMT work flawlessly if you master the art of throttle control. No head bobbing at all. However not everyone is there to master such things. My dad, and my father in law both are extremely happy with their respective cars. I had to force them a lot to take the AMT way. But once they started using it, they are praising it. It makes their driving easy and worry free to a certain extend. Let’s be honest, clutch and gear shifting is a pain unless you like the driving that much. For them, they need to travel between point A and point B with most limited efforts. AMT helps in this at a much lesser cost compared to AT. That’s all they need. AMT exists in car industry for such customers. Not for people who are excited about the driving process or the thrill you get from DSG/DCT gear boxes.
Now coming to Nano, the minuscule engine is not the best mate for an AMT gear box. It hunts for the right gear at times. However we are still using it after 7 years because it is easy to move around in the city in nano. It needs the space of an autorickshaw, making city driving easy. AMT is just an added advantage. It works reasonably ok in the slow city speeds. Occasionally it jumps when you give throttle, which can be scary at times. However, it also serves the basic purpose.

So overall I would say that AMT exists for the current traffic conditions in the cities and even some small towns. It serves that purpose. If you have enough money to afford a proper AT, go for it. If you want something which makes your life easier in the city, or even highway if you are a sedate driver, at a significantly lesser ownership cost, go for AMT.

Just let me add a few points on CVT also. A CVT with paddle shifters is really nice. Yea, it won’t give you the quick response of a DCT gearbox, but it is enough for a sedate driver. If you plan the overtakes properly, CVT serves you well on highway also. And with proper maintenance, it will serve you for a long time without any trouble (from my Honda city experience, sold the car at 1,20,000 km without any issues in engine/gb).

PS: ZF has an AMT gear box for heavy duty trucks. I have used it personally. It was a pleasant experience.