Team-BHP - Should we approach AMTs as manuals instead of automatics?

If you look at the post's question from a technical standpoint, the yes, an AMT is an automatic transmission and should be treated as such. However, from experience and observation, it is more of middle ground between an AT and MT, and more so an MT than a proper AT.

I recently had a chance to drive the Tigor AMT and it left me quite disappointed as the experience even on Mumbai city roads was underwhelming. There is just no room in an AMT car for spirited driving, even on urban roads. I shudder to think how an AMT would perform on highways. I daily drive an iMT Sonet, and in my opinion, if a compromise has to be made on ATs, then it is far better to opt for an iMT than an AMT. Granted, even an iMT cannot replace a MT from a performance standpoint, but the clutch-free operation and the manual act of changing gears is enough to mimic both the MT and AT's advantages to a much better degree than any AMT.

AMTs are good enough for slow driving in the 'city' car. One trick I have learned is that you can make the drive smoother by releasing the throttle each time you want the transmission to automatically shift up. Other than that, I've really not messed around with the modes offered by the transmission.

I've driven a Dzire AMT on the highway and it is not a fun experience >90 km/h and when the highway traffic demands frequent changes in speed.

Okay, here's how I see it... there's a reason why AMTs are called "semi" automatics because they are half way between a manual and an automatic, so it's really a third category of transmission. As long as we're able to appreciate this fact and it's value for a price-sensitive person who is cursed to drive in a typical metropolitan environment with constant shifting in 1-2-3 gears, I think AMT makes a great case for itself. The problem comes when we take the same car on an open stretch with a heavy right foot and forget that we need to give it almost as much time to shift as we ourselves would need had it been a manual, in other words take the foot off A-pedal momentarily when shifting. My two cents!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Somil07 (Post 5642391)

I call that semi automatic half way theory rubbish. It is only relevant where not everything is automatic, say only the clutch is automatic or the transmission needs manual inputs from the driver to shift up or down while the transmission does the rest of the job. Tell me what an AMT does half way compared to any other AT technology from the control perspective? How is controlling an AMT different from the rest of AT?

The feel or behaviour of a transmission should not be confused with The function. Function is same across AMT, TC, CVT and DSG whatever. It is only feel that differs obviously due to the underlying implementation. So calling it a third category is like associating behavioural traits to determine gender, which is wrong.

Quote:

Originally Posted by audioholic (Post 5642405)

Tell me what an AMT does half way compared to any other AT technology from the control perspective?

Perspective is what creates the difference here. I'm talking about the system and not how you control it as I was trying to make a point about it's limitation and how to get around it. It is half way from MT to AT because really you're automating things in an otherwise manual transmission whereas a proper TC/CVT is designed from ground up to move between gears seamlessly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by audioholic (Post 5642405)

I call that semi automatic half way theory rubbish

P.S. I would avoid using strong words on someone's opinion if I have the option of being polite. Peace✌️

Quote:

Originally Posted by Somil07 (Post 5642391)

I find this whole demeaning of AMT owners ridiculous. Classifying AMT buyers "price-sensitive", "budget-conscious", "poor", "Mango man", "Cattle class" etc is in a very bad taste. As if all those driving CVTs, ATs come from the tribe of Augustus Caesar.

Jokes apart, today's AMT are more of a necessity rather than a matter of choice between "smoother/conventional" ATs vs AMTs.

A buyer who is looking to buy a hatchback or a CS or even a CSUV has more AMT options in the market than proper ATs. And the fact the value proposition the AMT offers vis-a-vis the $$$ he is spending over and above the MT is what makes AMT gain in popularity over the years.

And I repeat what I have said 100 times, that AMT drive the same way as any AT (as in driver controls), the only difference is the smoothness of the gearbox and driving experience of an AMT vs a CVT/C-AT/DCT etc.

AMT is NOT any jugaad (like the Auto-Clutch Jugaad technology some engineers developed in 90s which automated the clutch, much like today's iMTs), and it is an AT in the end. Period.

I use to drive Storme in Bangalore traffic most of the days. Now using a Wagon R AMT for office and other city drives, Storme is taken only for the highways. I could not explain the relief i have after moving to an automatic from storme for the City drives. For me, only a practical automatic transmission and budget mattered, didnt go deep into analyzing AMT, DCT or iMT when i made the Wagon R decision. Honestly not regretting the AMT purchase in anyway now. cant complain with 1.2 K series in the hood, It does deliver more than what is expected. you can make the drive more smoother with some pedal tricks as others mentioned in the earlier posts. I love it.

I think this thread has gone totally off topic The title of the thread is AMTs as manuals but here everyone is doing the usual comparison against CVT, TC etc. It's already known that AMT's if driven as automatics have head nod but TCs are smooth at the cost of not just efficiency but also torque delivery(plus they cost more).

So it should only be AMT in manual mode vs Manual vs iMT.

Personally I believe it's iMT which is best of both worlds as it gives you most control e.g.

a) I can accelerate from 20 to 60 kmph in 2nd gear and then quickly jump to 4th gear.

b) can know/feel from the gear knob in which gear my car is right now(do cars with AMT show gear number in bigger font in manual mode & does font color changes as per the engine's rpm? :p).

c) a bit more engaging as I still have to change gears plus it is now effortless.

d) can plan my overtakes & their predictability(because I have control over the gear)

e) can prevent downshifts(don't know if AMTs control downshift till last breath in manual mode).

f) wife is also OK with it as she does not have to press the clutch in traffic.

And as per my experience, most of the people driving iMT have been happy with it because 0 to 100 hardly matters in day to day driving. Instead in gear acceleration matters more(at least to me and especially in turbo engines which have wide punchy mid-range).

But how much is this psychological advantage iMT has over AMT, only those persons can tell who have experience driving the both.

And please note that my experience is with Hyundai's iMT, a company known for fast switching AMTs. I always lift my foot off the accelerator while shifting gear and by the time I press the pedal again, the car is ready to go. So don't know what slow AMT/iMT feels like.

Our 2022 Spresso AMT does the fine job of taking us around through horribly congested roads of Pune very comfortably. We don’t know what head nod is as it is our first automatic but to be frank if it’s relatively simple mechanical automation on top of traditional manual gear system then it’s awesome. I guess I won’t miss the ultra smooth automatics in maddening crowd on our city roads. Infact frugality of the car is added peace of mind lol: , it allows one to zip through the traffic with ease (less stress) and AMT works well such scenarios.