[rajushank84]

(Couldn't find a topic exactly on this angle, figured it is worth creating one since it is probably relevant to many buyers).

My background with transmissions:

• Approximately 6 years driving manuals - mostly petrol, some diesels
• 11 years driving automatics - most of them torque converters, some dual clutch, rare CVTs
• Rarely drive a friend's AMT (Swift)

Now I don't have much experience with AMTs, I've always managed to steer clear (pun unintended). Except for small brief runs in a friend's AMT Swift. I usually enjoy torque converters and currently drive one (Brio), and I especially love cars with ZF's 8-speed AT (like the 3 series).

The other form of automatics I have driven a fair bit and never enjoyed is CVTs. The one in the Honda Accord (abroad) is not bad but still. I am not a fan of CVTs and how they feel.

But, about AMTs.

I observed, most of the enthusiast community online seem to be against AMTs.

But I am looking at it from a different perspective, especially after looking at Hyundai's (now discontinued) iMT.

So here's the thing: Instead of looking at AMTs as "automatics" and judging them on the basis of how good they are as automatics, should we be using and looking at them as manuals?

From my perspective: If I own an AMT (which may happen soon), I think I will use it in manual mode most of the time.

If I understand right: In manual mode, a (say maruti) AMT won't upshift on its own, but it will downshift if the revs drop too much. That sounds like the best of both worlds, isn't it?

When hitting packed traffic, leave it in auto mode, and everywhere else just use it in manual mode like a manual (which it is). What am I missing?

The usual complaint made against AMTs seems to be that it takes a whole second to shift in an AMT. But again, it is a manual. It certainly takes me about a second to clutch in, change gear, and clutch out in a clutched manual. Just that the same operation is easier in an AMT's manual mode, the clutching is being done for me (and downshifting if I forget to).

So instead of judging AMTs as automatics, I wonder if we should really judge them as manuals with added convenience.

Personally, I like manuals in any situation that is not packed traffic. Unfortunately though, packed traffic in Indian cities is an everyday thing. This sounds to me like the best of both worlds.

Again, I haven't driven AMTs extensively so my view may be naive. But before I go take some test drives I want to get some bhpian perspectives. On the surface it looks like they may be pretty bad as automatics, but not bad as manuals or semi-manuals?

Thoughts?

[ram.iyer95]

I drive an AMT car (Hyundai i10 Nios), and I see the technology exactly in the same way as you have described. A reasonably quick shifting AMT, when used in manual mode, is a great compromise between both worlds (manual and automatic). I had never driven automatics before getting the Nios, and so maybe my expectations from it were pretty low. But if you have extensive experience with proper automatic transmissions, don't evaluate an AMT as a competitor to those technologies. Just see it as a manual gearbox with a robot that does the hard part (clutching and de-clutching) for you, and evaluate it from that perspective.

The only caveat here is that the AMT itself has to be reasonably quick shifting, and not painfully slow; Hyundai and Maruti make pretty good ones. I had test driven the Nios, Ignis and Tigor AMTs, and chose the Nios just for it's shift speed and smoothness.

Whenever I am on the driver's seat, my car is always in manual mode. 2 years, 15k kms and absolutely no regrets.

[TheCamShaft]

Originally Posted by rajushank84

Again, I haven't driven AMTs extensively so my view may be naive. But before I go take some test drives I want to get some bhpian perspectives. On the surface it looks like they may be pretty bad as automatics, but not bad as manuals or semi-manuals?

Thoughts?

I have test driven several Celerio AMTs, s-Presso AMTs and Wagon-R AMTs for selecting a car for my wife who is going to be a first time driver in Bangalore traffic ( and we decided it must be a Maruti). It was her firm decision that she wants an automatic for her office drives that drove me towards evaluating these cars from pre-worshipped cars market. From the test drive experiences of several of those maruti AMTs, I have seen a mix of results. I have seen fairly responsive AMTs and the opposite too with Celerio and Wagon-R. It was like a hit or miss. . These cars are from years 2014-2016. I couldn't find a suitable explanation as to those differential behaviours

However I have seen s-Pressos being far more peppy consistently, and a responsive AMT. Those s-Presso models I have driven were from 2019 or higher. It's possible MSIL are using better versions of automated clutch actuators since that time period, I just don't know certainly as am very new to the world of Marutis , it's also possible the owners of those cars did some further fine tuning with service centres later with their actuators. Again , I simply don't know!

All I can say from my experiences is that AMTs have seem to have gotten better over past decade to current time frames, atleast that's what I experienced from my test drives. You should also evaluate the AMTs currently in market, and test drive those, and not hold yourself from doing that. (I own a very good torque converter myself, hexa XTA and still was left with a positive impression of recent AMTs).It's possible you might feel what I felt, and you might have a change of mind, go try it!!

[DicKy]

That is the correct way to look at it. Even the name is Automated Manual Transmission. Heck, I dare say in my books even DCTs are not full automatics but automated manual transmissions. You trade the smoothness of torque convertors for greater fuel efficiency. If you leave aside the time taken for the gearshift and jerks, AMTs give full manual control unlike say a CVt or most torque convertors.

For AMT users.
1. People who have never driven automatics but want to, AMTs are a godsend without sacrificing fuel efficiency.
2. For people who are used to proper automatics, but cannot afford one today or afford the running costs, it would be a compromise. But when you get used to it and master the lifting off the accelerator before an upshift, then AMTs will be smooth for most driving.
3. For driving enthusiastically, AMTs are a big no, unless ofcourse you manually change the gear. But then it a no man's land. You won't get the mechanical feel of a manual tranmission while trading in the comfort of automatic. (Hmmm.. Hyundai's iMT kinda makes sense now)

For normal driving, I would happily recommend AMTs to first time users, provided it has a decent creep function and hill hold.

[puntra800]

I drive an AMT, its something that someone gets used to over time. Yes the smoothness of any other proper automatic is not there but overtime one will learn the trick to handle it, I for an example was cribbing about the jerks initially overtime I learnt how to get over them and I majorly drive on city roads in one of the slowest moving traffic in the world. On the highways it is a pain especially when overtaking but the best part one can switch to manual mode and go to the necessary gear position.

[HappyWheels]

Originally Posted by rajushank84

...
From my perspective: If I own an AMT (which may happen soon), I think I will use it in manual mode most of the time.

...

When hitting packed traffic, leave it in auto mode, and everywhere else just use it in manual mode like a manual (which it is). What am I missing?
...

This is exactly how I used the Celerio when we had it; city drive was left at Auto and when I wanted to move quicker, drove in manual.

[Kosfactor]

Originally Posted by rajushank84

So instead of judging AMTs as automatics, I wonder if we should really judge them as manuals with added convenience.

Personally, I like manuals in any situation that is not packed traffic. Unfortunately though, packed traffic in Indian cities is an everyday thing. This sounds to me like the best of both worlds.

Again, I haven't driven AMTs extensively so my view may be naive. But before I go take some test drives I want to get some bhpian perspectives. On the surface it looks like they may be pretty bad as automatics, but not bad as manuals or semi-manuals?

Thoughts?

AMT is an automatic transmission which is made with parts that you normally see in a manual transmission. There is no point in buying an automatic and using it in manual mode , in a good AT of any kind you would rarely if ever use the manual mode.

That said Swift's AMT is good, Mk1 Celerio was not, so there is good and bad.

But , No AMT is not the best of both worlds because good MTs are still around and they are a joy to drive , AMT would often relegate a vehicle to be a city runabout, not ideal if you have any plans of going places with a car.

[alpha1]

Originally Posted by rajushank84

The usual complaint made against AMTs seems to be that it takes a whole second to shift in an AMT. But again, it is a manual. It certainly takes me about a second to clutch in, change gear, and clutch out in a clutched manual. Just that the same operation is easier in an AMT's manual mode, the clutching is being done for me (and downshifting if I forget to).

Even I am not exactly AMT driver,
However I want a clarity on the following sequence:

In pure MANUAL transmission:
1) you race the throttle, the vehicle accelerates
2) you desire to upshift the gears, press the clutch & simultaneously release the accelerator
3) you slot the gear
4) release the clutch and press the accelerator

What happens in AMT automatic mode? Does it do the bold part also? If it doesn't then obviously car will experience a jerk (since the disengaged engine will run at far higher RPM if the accelerator is not backed off)

[MotoBlip]

Your inference seems pretty reasonable to me. The only experience I have with AMTs is when I test drove the new Baleno. I have the old CVT variant, and speaking purely in terms of smoothness, CVT delivers and the bar was already set pretty high. But I was still pleasantly surprised by what I experienced. It wasn’t as bad as I had read online about it. Maybe the previous iterations were worse, but the new ones are rather good. There was still a bit of head bobbing, but nothing too serious. And if I were to switch, I think I’d be pretty okay with it, at least for city usage. Neither CVTs nor AMTs are any good on the highway, so that’s that.

[GTO]

Interesting viewpoint, but if you have to use an AMT like a manual, then why not just buy an IMT from Hyundai? It is much, much smoother and cheaper too.

From our official review:

There is no jerkiness like the AMT gearbox while gears are changed. It's much smoother in comparison. We have to again add that if an AMT is 10/10 in jerkiness levels, the IMT is a "2".

To me, AMTs suck, whatever way I look at them. They are jerky, slow and as reported on the forum, troublesome in the long run. I'd rather buy a used proper AT car instead of a new AMT.

[Vkap257]

Originally Posted by GTO

Interesting viewpoint, but if you have to use an AMT like a manual, then why not just buy an IMT from Hyundai? It is much, much smoother and cheaper too.

From our official review:


To me, AMTs suck, whatever way I look at them. They are jerky, slow and as reported on the forum, troublesome in the long run. I'd rather buy a used proper AT car instead of a new AMT.

I personally feel that in 2023, Indian car market has matured enough that we can shift all commuter cars from manuals to iMTs and AMTs. As an iMT user myself, I can say that it encompasses the best of all situations. There is no head nodd, no waiting for belt to stretch, no waiting for computer to decide the gear and no tension of any fluid overheating. It is also the cheapest of the lot and least complicated to engineer.

Except when I have to reverse parallel park uphill. Thats a pink coloured kryptonite right there!


For reference, here is an iMT tested by James may from 10 years ago.

https://youtu.be/9_mDCBkcsr4?si=zekIvhhuzAOm71IK

[PrideRed]

Originally Posted by rajushank84

Again, I haven't driven AMTs extensively so my view may be naive. But before I go take some test drives I want to get some bhpian perspectives. On the surface it looks like they may be pretty bad as automatics, but not bad as manuals or semi-manuals?

Thoughts?

I have AMT, regular AT and MT too. There is no denying the fact that AMT's are jerky but then if you make some changes to driving style(which you get used to after sometime) its just fine.

You cannot drive AMT like an AT where shifts are seemless. Once you understand when the shift happens in AMT, let go off the accelerator like you do in MT and shifts become quite smooth. This works 90% of the time when driving sedately and not having to press clutch helps.

When driving aggressively, you may have to switch to manual mode and shift it like MT. In Manual mode when paired with nice engine is almost as fun as MT but with a convenience. Again when shifting you have to let go off the accelerator.

I don't know about iMT but AMT is somewhere in between MT and proper AT. You get the convenience but not the smooth shifts of AT. Modulate the accelerator like you do in MT and you should be fine.

[rajushank84]

Originally Posted by GTO

Interesting viewpoint, but if you have to use an AMT like a manual, then why not just buy an IMT from Hyundai? It is much, much smoother and cheaper too.

Because they are discontinued.

Of course there is the used car market, but speaking of new cars I think they aren't available anymore.

[rajushank84]

Originally Posted by alpha1

Even I am not exactly AMT driver,
However I want a clarity on the following sequence:

In pure MANUAL transmission:
1) you race the throttle, the vehicle accelerates
2) you desire to upshift the gears, press the clutch & simultaneously release the accelerator
3) you slot the gear
4) release the clutch and press the accelerator

What happens in AMT automatic mode? Does it do the bold part also? If it doesn't then obviously car will experience a jerk (since the disengaged engine will run at far higher RPM if the accelerator is not backed off)

Exactly, and I think driving in manual too it is on the driver to back off the throttle.

Here's how I see it, with an AMT:

• A robot is doing the clutching for me, that's it.
• Aside from that, it is on me to shift and use the throttle like in any other manual
• But once in a while when traffic is really bad I can use it "like" an automatic to creep along

Personally the more I think about it the more I feel like we (enthusiast community) just use AMTs like automatics and expect them to work like automatics, which they don't.

If we use them like we use other manuals I don't see downsides. (Again, I haven't driven AMTs extensively but I've driven manuals and automatics for nearly two decades - so take this as a newbie AMT driver but not a newbie driver's uninformed perspective).

I say enthusiasts particularly because the average user doesn't seem to know or care. My Swift owning friend gives me a blank stare when I talk about this and says "What head nod, what are you talking about?"

[Altrozed]

Once you hate AMT, that is eternal.
Once you know how to make the best out of AMT, then it solves many many problems.
Driving in Manual mode for Tata Nexon Diesel, it's a lovely feeling when you rev up till 2500+ RPM and then change the gear. It's a lovely joy stick push and the gear changes. You push it earlier, then there is a bing alert.

So, it's all about expectations vs practicality.
When we have to give rest to the left leg and when the AMT does that, learn to practice without jerks.
Do we drive the MT in jerky mode as we all did in our earlier days. AMTs are different breed and we have to behave as per the system and it's design.

But instead of adapting to it, I'll pedal to the metal and wants to RPM climbing up and gears not changing, sorry boss, this is not your GB.

Hyundai can make nice GBs and agreed but it still can't make safer cars. Thankfully, with Verna they woke up or pretending ,only time will tell.

AMTs appears to be more fuel efficient as many Gi10s have complained about single digit efficiency.

To conclude, AMTs are different league. To get the best out of it, LEARN to drive.