[ashutoshb]

Originally Posted by Mortis

I wonder how Citroen fits into this. They are doing low volumes but claim that even with their limited sales they have been profitable from the start.
Maybe the slow and steady method could work for them if they step up their game and offer better packaged products.

The answer to your question is here:

Despite a modest market share in India, with its Jeep and Citroen brands, Stellantis is already profitable in India thanks to a few hundred-thousand-unit exports of engines and gearboxes from India to other parts of the world.

Source: Exports key to building scale and bring down cost for EVs for Stellantis, says Deputy MD, Aditya Jairaj - Auto Car Professional

[shankar.balan]

Originally Posted by ashutoshb

The answer to your question is here:



Source: Exports key to building scale and bring down cost for EVs for Stellantis, says Deputy MD, Aditya Jairaj - Auto Car Professional

Yes using India as an export hub still makes sense. Like Maruti Suzuki is doing. Other manufacturers have built big businesses out of essential and critical components. Sundaram Fasteners who make Radiator Caps for example.

[GeeTee TSI]

Viability in insistence on local manufacturing brings the volume into question leaving many marques and models without seeing light of the day. Especially in hatchback segments we are guaranteed to not get global best sellers due to restrictive import duties (it is rather short-sighted to dare the OEM to set up shop here notwithstanding viability).

Many markets allow for phenomenal customisation/trims even in humble car segments which we never will; owing to the same reason. Maybe the exchequer is grinning at the prospect of a few OEMs having mega facilities in the country, as a BHP-ian I would like more choice in OEMs and amongst those present, more models and variants.

[sandeepmdas]

Originally Posted by Mortis

I wonder how Citroen fits into this. They are doing low volumes but claim that even with their limited sales they have been profitable from the start.

Getting a Citroën dealership is investment-wise a better bet than getting a VAG one, at least on paper. Citroen sold 630 cars in October (peaked at 1003 in June) but they have only 49 dealerships across India. Means you have scope to sell 13 to 20 cars per month.

Compared to this, VW sold 4089 cars in October, through 203 dealers. 20 cars per month but unlike the German, the French carmaker is (apparently ) sailing smooth.

[SmartCat]

Originally Posted by true_sedan

I strongly disagree with a lot of posts bashing the VW group. Their 2.0 strategy ticked all the right boxes

Yes, seems to be working. VW India revenues :

FY23: Rs. 17,000 cr
FY22: Rs. 12,400 cr
FY21: Rs. 7,000 cr

(includes VW/Skoda/Audi/Porsche/Lambo)

Originally Posted by sandeepmdas

Getting a Citroën dealership is investment-wise a better bet than getting a VAG one, at least on paper. Citroen sold 630 cars in October (peaked at 1003 in June) but they have only 49 dealerships across India. Means you have scope to sell 13 to 20 cars per month.
Compared to this, VW sold 4089 cars in October, through 203 dealers. 20 cars per month but unlike the German, the French carmaker is sailing smooth.

Can't come to a conclusion like that based on just this data because:

- VW dealers will have a robust service & spares business since they have been selling cars for a long time
- VW is likely to have higher realization per unit sold. That is, average price of VW car (and hence dealer commissions) will be higher than that of Citroen.

[Comrade]

For me, market share is a skewed metric. Better to look at the profitability of the company. Consider someone like Isuzu, who is a niche player by virtue of its product line.

Single old platform and two models (D-Max along with its derivatives and MU-X) will only afford Isuzu very few sales in India (just 0.01% market share). However, its not like Isuzu has invested a lot in India (about 3000 crores). Compare this to Kia’s initial investment of US$2Billion.

Isuzu’s installed capacity is also very less (just 50000 cars per annum) and they announced that they exported 25000 cars last year. Just like Citroen, they have been very conservative with new dealerships (both sales & service points).

I don’t know if Isuzu India is profitable. I am just saying that we are not very well informed to say Isuzu will fail by just comparing its market share with Toyota’s or Suzuki’s!

[OpenRoads]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

India's worth as a destination must also factor in exports of VW, Hyundai Group, Nissan Group etc. That is what ultimately shows up on their India balance sheet.

This is happening for many products where Indian market is considered at par with the other markets and any new product is released here first along with other markets. However its not the same with cars mostly due to high cost which the Indian consumers are not ready.

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

What is considered a common man’s mass-market vehicle in other parts of the world, seem to become a part of the aspirational, prestige, luxe segment in India.

I couldn't agree more to the above point. If we consider factor like income distribution then it would be a very small percentage who can afford to buy a 20+ lac car out of the whole population making the market segment rather small for top companies in the world make a successful market penetration.

[Gotcha]

If more car companies exit India due to higher tax slabs for better cars, it's us end users who'll be the ultimate losers. When we don't complain enough about faulty govt policies, something's wrong with us not them.

[Somil07]

One brand that I would certainly want to see stay in India is Citroen. Although my strict criteria is an automatic but still drove C3 today and the performance is unbelievable. It's only real competitor is XUV300 but I would still go for C3 because of it's light weight and resultant efficiency gains if I was okay with a manual transmission.

[Kln]

Originally Posted by fastestindian

I don't see how fewer car companies makes the Indian consumer better off. Competition almost always benefits the end user.

Agree 100%. One has to only look at the prices of Fortuner after the departure of Ford to understand this. Very sad state of affairs in the market, and the car makers only have themselves to blame for it. As a consumer, I feel frustrated that there is no competition in the market.

[NajSaf]

Originally Posted by sarathlal

Can't agree more.
Honda for instance, have only their Indian management to blame. There was soo much brand value, so much aspiration for this brand and still they managed to lose it out.

Nissan also does not have to look outside their office to blame. With such wide vehicle portfolio, they treated this market like trash

With Honda, my personal opinion is that over the past few years, they removed all variations. Earlier, we had great cars like Civic, CRV and City -- all different to feel, ride and play! Now, all their cars look alike with just one variation in diesel and petrol engines.
I owned a Civic from 2008-2021. It was just awesome. The 2020 Civic had a major drawback that the engine was the same...only cosmetic (although beautifully done) changes. We Indians, did not accept it. Actually, Civic competed only with Octavia early on -- but later, Octavia just changed the goalpost and Honda wasn't interested...

[NajSaf]

Absolutely agree -- although I wouldn't mind if the Chinese owners moved out too.

[Starwar19]

Many automakers still do not consider India a primary auto market, despite it being one of the biggest and wealthiest auto consumption markets globally. The eight players mentioned are at fault for their no-show, poor product quality, high pricing, and incompetent products.

People mistakenly view India as a poor country; however, the top-end models like Creta, XUV700, and Hycross still command a hefty waiting period. If carmakers get the features right at the right price point, there's no turning back for your order books. For example, Harrier, XUV700, Nexon, etc.

Nissan and Renault have a small portfolio; I visited a Nissan showroom interested in Magnite, but the salesman and showroom were so dull. How could they compete with the ever-exciting Tiago and Altroz? Renault plan to launch the Duster in 2025 with features already introduced in the lower models of Nexon, Harrier, and Suzuki.

Jeep and Citroen consistently fail in pricing; the Compass feels overpriced for what it offers, with heavy prices and discounts. While the C5 Aircross is an excellent product, it lacks value when pitched against the Kodiaq.

There's almost zero product innovation and upgrades in the current portfolio for Isuzu.
Skoda-Volkswagen 2.0 is a profitable recipe, recently showing positive top-line results. A case study of Tata Nexon reveals that Tata is always on its toes, keeping their products ahead of the competition.

As a consumer who is cash rich, goes out in the market and barely finds any option is such a disaster to face in real world.

[hortons15]

In this market share chart at the start of the thread, the numbers should represent the turnover/sales revenue of the respective companies (a much better indicator of how a company is doing in a market), instead of showing who sells how many cars without taking into account the price and segment of the cars sold which is an important factor.

For example, Hyundai/Kia are doing as well as if not better than Maruti in this market all things considered, but this chart says they are less than half of the latter.

Sales revenues in INR for FY 2023:
Hyundai + Kia - 60,000 + 38,000 = 98,000 crores
Maruti - a little over 100,000 crores

Hyundai/Kia almost matching up to Maruti's sales revenue is a big feat considering the segments they operate in.

[BusCar]

There was a time ~2009-10 to 2014-15 where Maruti Suzuki had increased its market share from ~40% to ~50%. This was due to their relentless Pursuit for sales, providing efficient Service and being in Good Books of the Customer. Though there numbers are still better, other manufacturers have catch up, and we now see better distribution of market share as a Customer.
In 2009-10 these manufacturers that as listed in the Article especially VW Group, Honda, Renault-Nissan and Ford, GM had better market share as compared to now. There loss was taken up first by Maruti and now by other manufacturers. Special note of Kia - They have shown how to crack the market with reasonable priced cars and remain profitable.
As pointed out by some members, the Car manufacturers noted in the Article may not exit India and remain relevant due to Export Business, and hopefully launch of better Value new Cars.