[volkman10]

Kia to launch hybrids in India by 2025.

The introduction of a new Kia compact SUV (codenamed: AY), which will slot between the Sonet and the Seltos, could be the first strong hybrid Kia model when it is launched in early 2025. Sister brand, Hyundai, too is likely to share the same powertrain for its future SUVs

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[Aditya]

Rumour: Kia mulling 1.2L & 1.5L hybrids for India - Post moved to a new thread.

[The Rationalist]

More than hybrids, what KIA needs is more models! With just 3 mass market models, the showroom looks sparse. They need to bring an SUV above Seltos, an MPV above Carens and maybe a premium hatchback. I stop believe there’s a place for a good hatchback in India.

[volkman10]

Kia is working on electrifying its existing 1.2-litre and 1.5-litre naturally aspirated petrol units for the Indian market.

- Considering the size of the engines being considered for hybridisation, these new powertrains could potentially find their way into the likes of the Seltos midsize SUV, the Carens MPV and a future sub four-metre model.

-Monthly sales of hybrid vehicles in India have recently overtaken EV sales, despite a relative lack of models to choose from.

-From September to November 2023 period, sales of strong hybrid vehicles totaled 24,026 units, compared to 21,445 EVs sold in the same duration, which suggests the ‘tipping point’ where hybrids consistently outsell EVs has been reached.

-And that’s despite the current crop of mid-size hybrids which attract a much higher GST rate of 43 percent, compared to the 5 percent for EVs.

-The upcoming Kia compact SUV sporting a 1.2-litre hybrid powertrain will make it eligible for lower 28 percent tax bracket for sub-four-metre cars, which should narrow gap the price gap with EVs.

- The first strong hybrid Kia model when it is launched in early 2025.


Link:

[newenergy]

Originally Posted by The Rationalist

More than hybrids, what KIA needs is more models! With just 3 mass market models, the showroom looks sparse. They need to bring an SUV above Seltos, an MPV above Carens and maybe a premium hatchback. I stop believe there’s a place for a good hatchback in India.

Agree, they need to introduce a premium offering like Sportage or Sorento to go up against Compass and Tucson. I somehow can not justify spending ~24 lacks on a Seltos (considering safety).

[sprashanth1982]

As much as I love hearing news about Kia (or any other foreign brand) planning to bring Strong Hybrid cars to India, the reality looks grim to me.

The reason is that a Strong Hybrid car has more complexity than it's equivalent conventional petrol car (Li-ion or Ni-MH battery pack, two electric motors, Atkinson cycle engine, regen-braking tech, more advanced CPU etc.) which implies that the Strong Hybrid car is going to cost minimum 6 Lacs more than the simple Petrol car.

One of the biggest advantages with Strong Hybrid cars is that, on average, they deliver a mileage of atleast 4 km/ltr more than the equivalent Petrol car. If you do some calculations based on the Petrol prices, you will find that the Hybrid car can save around Rs. 2/- for each km travelled by the car. This means, to recover the 6 Lacs additional cost, the Hybrid car needs to cover 3 Lac kms in total.

If you are a taxi or cab operator & your car is expected to cover atleast 60,000 kms per year, then in 5 years time you can recover the additional cost & it will prove to be very beneficial if you use the car for longer periods of time. However, the average Indian person who drives a car will cover at most 15,000 kms per year; in which case it will take 20 years to recover the additional cost! So, unless the car makers or government helps to bring the additional cost down from 6 Lacs to around 1-2 Lacs, it is highly unlikely for the average Indian car buyer to consider buying Strong Hybrids.

This means that if Kia were to bring their strong hybrid cars to India, it will be beneficial for them to target the taxi & cab operators for whom it will be most profitable. However, as of today in India, Kia has built a reputation of being an Premium car maker; but to appeal to the taxi & cab operator market, Kia will be forced to make cheaper, less-premium cars like Maruti-Suzuki. Can Kia pull it off, without any dent to their reputation in India?

[ergon_9700]

Originally Posted by sprashanth1982

As much as I love hearing news about Kia (or any other foreign brand) planning to bring Strong Hybrid cars to India, the reality looks grim to me.

The reason is that a Strong Hybrid car has more complexity than it's equivalent conventional petrol car (Li-ion or Ni-MH battery pack, two electric motors, Atkinson cycle engine, regen-braking tech, more advanced CPU etc.) which implies that the Strong Hybrid car is going to cost minimum 6 Lacs more than the simple Petrol car.

One of the biggest advantages with Strong Hybrid cars is that, on average, they deliver a mileage of atleast 4 km/ltr more than the equivalent Petrol car. If you do some calculations based on the Petrol prices, you will find that the Hybrid car can save around Rs. 2/- for each km travelled by the car. This means, to recover the 6 Lacs additional cost, the Hybrid car needs to cover 3 Lac kms in total.

If you are a taxi or cab operator & your car is expected to cover atleast 60,000 kms per year, then in 5 years time you can recover the additional cost & it will prove to be very beneficial if you use the car for longer periods of time. However, the average Indian person who drives a car will cover at most 15,000 kms per year; in which case it will take 20 years to recover the additional cost! So, unless the car makers or government helps to bring the additional cost down from 6 Lacs to around 1-2 Lacs, it is highly unlikely for the average Indian car buyer to consider buying Strong Hybrids.

This means that if Kia were to bring their strong hybrid cars to India, it will be beneficial for them to target the taxi & cab operators for whom it will be most profitable. However, as of today in India, Kia has built a reputation of being an Premium car maker; but to appeal to the taxi & cab operator market, Kia will be forced to make cheaper, less-premium cars like Maruti-Suzuki. Can Kia pull it off, without any dent to their reputation in India?

True. But some Kia cars are already running as taxis. Seen some Carens running as Taxis.

Hope the centre reduces the GST to at most 25% on hybrids regardless of engine capacity.

[sprashanth1982]

Originally Posted by ergon_9700

True. But some Kia cars are already running as taxis. Seen some Carens running as Taxis.

Hope the centre reduces the GST to at most 25% on hybrids regardless of engine capacity.

That's interesting, I'm yet to see Kia cars used as regular taxi cabs (uber/ola/fastrack etc.) here in Chennai. Most of the cab cars here are MS Swift/Dzire, Tata Zest or Toyota Etios. Kia Carens IMO is a somewhat more premium car compared to them. Perhaps the Carens you mentioned are used by special cab operators who are hired by private companies to chaffeur senior employees or important clients.

I also agree with you that the government needs to reduce the GST on Strong Hybrid cars, to help reduce the cost gap from the equivaent Petrol cars. If the centre is unable to do that, atleast the State govts can provide some incentives or discounts on Strong Hybrid vehicles which will also be of help, IMO.

[ergon_9700]

Originally Posted by sprashanth1982

That's interesting, I'm yet to see Kia cars used as regular taxi cabs (uber/ola/fastrack etc.) here in Chennai. Most of the cab cars here are MS Swift/Dzire, Tata Zest or Toyota Etios. Kia Carens IMO is a somewhat more premium car compared to them. Perhaps the Carens you mentioned are used by special cab operators who are hired by private companies to chaffeur senior employees or important clients.

I also agree with you that the government needs to reduce the GST on Strong Hybrid cars, to help reduce the cost gap from the equivaent Petrol cars. If the centre is unable to do that, atleast the State govts can provide some incentives or discounts on Strong Hybrid vehicles which will also be of help, IMO.

A high possibility or some private taxi runners could have a base variant of the Carens. Not seen any as an Ola/Uber cab though.

Chandigarh offers incentives but to cars below 20 lakhs which I feel makes it useless as only 1 or 2 models qualify for this incentive currently IIRC. If it were say 30 lakhs it would have been good more models would be covered and adoption would go up.

[Gautham_v6]

Originally Posted by The Rationalist

More than hybrids, what KIA needs is more models! With just 3 mass market models, the showroom looks sparse. They need to bring an SUV above Seltos, an MPV above Carens and maybe a premium hatchback. I stop believe there’s a place for a good hatchback in India.

I second this as well. Kia have some really good cars in their global portfolio covering from.budget to premium pricing brackets.

Safety concerns aside, what makes Kia cars popular in India is mostly to do with ton of features . But yes, maximum safety features is something customers seek for , where Kia seems to make some efforts , though I still wish they paid attention.

Hybrid powertrains are needed , no doubt . But I sincerely wish they bring more models, like a hatchback (atleast comparable to an i20, if not Grand i10 Nios) , a sedan (comparable to Elantra/Sonata)and a luxury suv/ MPV ( Carnival new version is due, Telluride will surely have some enthusiasts). Their current offerings are barely affordable for first time/ middle.class buyers ( Those seeking an aspirational.vehicle)

Kia, if you are following our voices in this forum , kindly consider this.

[sassid]

I wonder if Hybrid petrol's are an industry transition (temporary) destination!

Some years back, we had naturally aspirated Petrol's. Turbo-Petrols were the new kid on the block and were available as premium offerings. Over a period though Turbo-Petrols have become democratised with competent offerings even in entry level segments.

In the same vein, we could see Hybrid petrol offerings become more mass market in an environment where fuel costs are headed only one way - Up!

Electric cars - which is the destination which has a natural momentum - also suffers inhibiting factors given that our country has an adversarial position with the primary manufacturer and supply chain owner of Electric cars in the world - China.

Hybrid solutions also make sense to existing ICE manufacturers as a more reachable via-media solution and as more weight is thrown behind this idea, costs could start scaling down?

In the long run though I wonder also if where we land could be an altogether different paradigm. As a country that is already quite severely affected by climate change, we should be prepared for sweeping changes in the favour of public mobility as opposed to private mobility and given the experiences that we have had in TN just this month, we may be closer to such transitions than we think!

[ValarMorghulis]

I hope Kia introduces:
1. A proper SUV competing with Fortuner and Meridian
2. A Tucson competitor and not a rebadged car

[Carma2017]

I find it hilarious when people say KIA is premium brand in India. They sell vehicles like Sonet and we call them premium. They only have Carnival which is a high cost vehicle. Even Suzuki/Toyota has a premium-ish vehicle in Innova/Invicto. KIA was never premium worldwide. In fact they sold Hyundai Atos(Santro) as the Vista world wide. I feel the same when we call the Czech Taxi maker, Skoda, as premium!!

Now rant aside, Hybrid is the logical alternative to Diesel. With Hyundai/ KIA stopping further work in Diesel and EVs only giving incremental sales, Hybrids with mileage close to or more than Diesels is the right alternative. It is the same logic by which Japanese OEMs have stopped Diesels. All of them are going Hybrid in short term and unfortunately EV in long term. With the frontal assault on Diesel by all Central and State Governments, it is only rational that Diesels would be replaced by Hybrid.

Going Hybrid or EV is not a decision that is being taken as a customer centric effort. It is governed by CAFE norms. With current government not in great favour of 4 wheelers going EV way, we will see more such announcements in short term and more Hydrogen centric announcements in longer term.

[07CR]

Originally Posted by sprashanth1982

The reason is that a Strong Hybrid car has more complexity than it's equivalent conventional petrol car (Li-ion or Ni-MH battery pack, two electric motors, Atkinson cycle engine, regen-braking tech, more advanced CPU etc.) which implies that the Strong Hybrid car is going to cost minimum 6 Lacs more than the simple Petrol car.

That's not necessarily true for all Hybrids. Toyota Hyryder/Maruti Grand Vitara prove it otherwise. Hyryder V Hybrid costs 23.6 OTR Pune, while V mild hybrid costs 20.3L. 3.3L more than conventional petrol is good enough considering the Hybrid benefits (added performance, more efficiency, better NVH, lesser carbon emissions etc.)

Even Honda city hybrid which is extremely exorbitantly priced, the premium is 5.2L for the Hybrid variant. It also gets additional equipment like Adaptive Cruise control with stop and go (conventional model gets only adaptive cruise), EPB with auto hold, a better wireless charger etc.

Considering Kia's pricing strategy, quite sure they would go Toyota's way than Honda's.

[thebikemaster]

Kia is eager to eat that hybrid pie from the Toyota/Suzuki. We all have seen that how the sales went off the roof when the Hyryder and GV launched. Still i know there is a waiting period of min 2 months in some places.

Hybrid is kind of monopoly with the Japs (mainly Toyota now). I prefer more players come and this segment will have a good competition. Kia and hyundai can easily set up all in India and come up with a competitive pricing as well. That will hold the prices of Toyota as well.

I remember my relative booking the car(Hyryder hybrid) soon after physical launch at showroom and the waiting period was at that time was 9 months. We waited for 9 months, and the car's price increased to almost 1.5L in that period. We got fed up seeing this and cancelled the booking.