[Auto_guy_101]

Hey Bhpians,

Most of us typically use our cars for about 10000 Kms a year give or take and one of the biggest concerns we have while buying a car, especially in the 10-40 Lakh price bracket is its reliability and long term ownership cost. However, the next time you take a cab, just have a look at the odometer and ask the driver how much maintenance costs.

I would like to call this the Taxi test of the car. Through this thread, I would love to understand from you all
- Is this a sensible way of assessing fuss-free and cheap ownership?
- Have you come across any cars in the 10-40 L range (other than an Innova) as a taxi? How was your experience? If you've asked the driver about their ownership experience, do add them too.
- Hypothetically understand why some cars in this range would be a great/ terrible taxi
- If you had an option to travel in say a petrol Thar or Fortuner as a Taxi, how much would you be willing to pay for a 30-40 Km ride?

Why do I feel such a test of a car is important?
Some brands (Suzuki, Hyundai, Toyota) are known to be super reliable. Ask the driver of a 1.5 L Km Suzuki Dzire and he will say "Maruti ki gaadi hai. Koi issue ni ayega" (Maruti vehicles have bulletproof reliabilty). However, some brands have a speciality of being unreliable, like Jeep, VW, Skoda, especially in India. If, lets say 5-10 Virtus's are being run as Taxis in metro cities (through some marketing scheme) and the driver, passenger feedback is collected, over a period of 5-6 years, we will have information on how those cars will fare in the longer run. We can understand when a clutch can fail, when brake pads wear out, when the suspension needs to be overhauled or when the turbo would go Kaput through this test.

I have come across the Honda city, VW vento and a Creta in the Taxi guise, but haven't travelled in them.

[Manualpurist]

While i have not had any conversion with a taxi operator, but I've seen quite a few VW Ameo TDIs with yellow plates in Dehradun. Surprising, given the image VW cars carry in India.

[Mortis]

I would say it's not an entirely useful metric to go by. The taxis might be running and functioning after X km but the question for us car owners is - are they running WELL ?
Is the engine and gearbox still smooth? Is the suspension still working to it's normal standards ? How have the interiors and electronics held up ? How are the body panels doing and how rusted is the chassis ?
All these things matter for private car ownership. I'm going to say something controversial - the average taxi driver only cares if the car is driveable and they are getting decent mileage. All other parameters just need to be in the acceptable/usable range.

[ashis89]

These discussions can be misleading. If a taxi owner has bought a car and held on to it for long, they will continue driving it whether they’re happy with it or not. They will also maintain it, by any means.

Some of the discussions that I had over the years:

Owner of a 4L km run Indica but in good condition was very proud of his car and it’s minimal upkeep needs. Others with Indicas falling apart in 2L kms are equally happy about their robust cars.

A Zest owner mentioned that Tata MJD spares/consumables slightly more expensive but his car is more durable than a Maruti, comfortable and was cheaper to buy. Another Zest owner used to service his car every 20k kms and it was still running well!

Etios owner was proud that it’s a Toyota after all. Durable and cheap to maintain. It had a shot lower arm.

A couple of Innovas that we hired from Guwahati mentioned that the suspension lasts 1.5-2L kms but clutch need replacement 40k-60k kms due to usage on the hills. One specimen was 6 months/20k kms old, other one was 3.5L kms old.

Maruti owners are happy about low spare costs and easy service. But my Uber last week was a wheezy Dzire CNG one. It had run 1.5L kms, had shot clutch probably and was stuttering badly at low revs. That was surprising as the car looked well cared visually and the driver kept wiping the mirrors during traffic jams. My regular operator’s fleet of Ciaz diesel and petrol are in showroom condition and some have done 1.5L+ kms already.


To summarise, the data can be as diverse as possible. The reference point can also be different unless we get to drive the different cars to under the mechanical state they’re in. Most owners prefer getting their cars serviced at their preferred FNGs. Some prefer used parts or compatible versions if available. And I haven’t come across any owner/driver who has said their car is bad or has a flaw. If there is then they have found a workaround or wouldn’t share it.

[GTO]

The taxi car buyer is an astute car buyer. After all, his life depends on the car...literally. Generally speaking, I will agree that the "taxi test" is a good way to gauge reliability & durability. See the top taxi models today = Innova Crysta, WagonR, Dzire, Ertiga etc.

On the other hand, it cannot be taken blindly and by itself. There are also some duds among taxi models from time to time. The Indica (hardly a paragon of reliability) was bought by cabbies only because it was cheap + diesel + spacious.

But generally, yes. I would say that commercial car buyers (including cabbies) choose their model wisely based on uptime & reliability. Unlike private car buyers where other factors come into play (including prestige).

Originally Posted by Manualpurist

I've seen quite a few VW Ameo TDIs with yellow plates in Dehradun. Surprising, given the image VW cars carry in India.

That's an outlier in Dehradun. The Ameo is hardly a common taxi model across the country.

[Shreyans_Jain]

A lot of it is based on local laws as well. Here in Delhi NCR, a taxi has to be CNG or electric, and aftermarket CNG conversions are not permitted. Automatically, the market gets restricted to factory fitted CNG cars, which basically means WagonRs, Dzires, Ertigas, Xcents and the occasional Tigor.

The only common thing between these vehicles is that they are usually in very bad shape. Noisy and whiny engines, lousy suspensions, sagging seats and unkempt cabins, these cars age poorly. Just not good enough for commercially ferrying people, surviving solely because there are no better quality options out there. BluSmart has seen this, and has jacked up the prices of their EV cars. Better kept vehicles, smoother and wayyyy more refined, and overall a better experience. Especially their MGs and BYDs.

[The Rationalist]

It is almost impossible to make such a generalization at least in Kerala. I travel a lot in Uber and have come across Eon, Wagon R, Indica, Aspire, Dzire, Etios commonly and others less often. Most petrol ones are converted to CNG. I regularly chat with the drivers due to my nature. In fact one person I met in 2015 has become a family friend. Very few were unhappy with their choice. Most of the cars here are below 2 lakh kilometres, maybe that's the reason for not having big issues. Also now a days cars are more or less very reliable.

Once EV taxis become more common, then we can use them to gauge the longevity of battery and mileage on full charge after 5-6 years.

[rakesh_r]

One of my known taxi driver at my native had three generations of Ambassadors with varied engine combos, a mark 4 Diesel with a Matador engine, a Nova with factory issued BMC engine and a Ambassador 2.0L DSZ (Isuzu). The mark 4 demanded utmost care with front suspension requiring frequent overhaul, oil pump requiring frequent replacement and other niggles. The Nova was mostly niggle free and demanded very less. The 2.0 DSZ too was niggle free but was a bit expensive to maintain. When Mahindra launched the Verito, they started marketing the car more amongst the fleet operators. Now my taxi guy falls into all the marketing hoopla (herd mentality) sells off the mk4 and Nova and goes ahead and buys the Verito as most of his friends do the same. Others sold off their ambys and bought the Etios which was a bit on the expensive side. The current scenario, the Etios guys are super happy, infact one of them clocked some insane numbers and again bought an Etios, whereas the folks who got the Verito are regretting big time.
Other than the vehicle being reliable, i guess the other factor would be after sales support.

[Raghu M]

Originally Posted by Manualpurist

While i have not had any conversion with a taxi operator, but I've seen quite a few VW Ameo TDIs with yellow plates in Dehradun. Surprising, given the image VW cars carry in India.

This is a total surprise. First time I am hearing this. I think some areas have a certain customer behaviour. In my hometown (mid 90s), I used to see a lot of Yamaha bikes which was obviously never a no. 1 brand but later came to know that the dealer was an influential person in my area and most of the sales attributed to their clout. Also, the other dealers presence was made minimal (could be political).

[PaddleShifter]

Originally Posted by Manualpurist

but I've seen quite a few VW Ameo TDIs with yellow plates in Dehradun. Surprising, given the image VW cars carry in India.

From time to time, cars under stock clearance are grabbed by taxi operators, especially while buying in bulk. Case in point, the FIAT Punto (2015 and later models) and even S-Cross (DDiS/ diesel).

I have seen both being used as taxi, the former in Chandigarh, Punjab and other parts of North India while the S-Cross around Haridwar.

These cars were probably acquired during December discounts or previous year unsold stock at a lucerative price. Because Punto spares are not available over the counter while S-Cross has a terrible boot space and does not qualify as a comfortable premium taxi by any means (I own S-Cross by the way).

As per my understanding, apart from reliability, spare parts availability is also an important factor for a taxi business. So, cars from Maruti, Hyundai, Toyota and a few TATA entry level models are part of the majority of the taxi market.

[Raghu M]

Let's agree for a while that the taxi test is genuine, what can customers buy? Dzire, WagonR, Etios and Innova. There are literally 4 to 5 cars to choose from. While the reliability factor definitely needs to be agreed to but anything else is purely customer centric. Why wouldn't a taxi driver use a Skoda? Simply because it's expensive. The commute business will always choose the cheapest and reliable ones (90% of the time). When we move beyond the 15 lakh price range, we don't have many options. And for our personal usage, a 2 lakh km run car cannot be a guage/standard. We need a car that is gizmo laden, is comfortable/safe and can run 1 lakh (before replacing).

[RaghuVis]

I recently sat on a 2.6L run 14-year-old Renault Logan while going to the Airport. The guy had bought it from the previous owner just last year. His reasons for buying were.

1. The car was still attached to UBER. Currently, UBER does not allow any new attachment of cars beyond 2013. So that way he is secured for another few years as per him.

2. The car is still in not-so-bad condition. The Air-con is chilly and the engine noise is not intolerable. While the engine is a gem from Renault, I felt too much turbo lag in start-stop traffic. He does not care about that.

3. He got it dirt cheap for 1.6L. Any new taxi will cost a minimum of 8-10 Lacs.
4. he says maintenance has been minimal and fuss-free ownership for 1 year.

[Turbohead]

What if I tell you that the Xylo is the most common 7 seater taxi in Chennai? Our company aggregator has managed to get hold of guys with Xylos. Each of these cars have done anywhere between 1 to 2.5 lakh kms. Are they good? The engine maybe durable but rest of the car is not so. The levers to access the 3rd row in most cars is broken. The seat belts don't work

I also get the feel that most of these Xylos are resurrected after total loss claims because some of the cracks in the dashboard can only occur if you're involved in some accident along with frayed seatbelts.

If anything, a success of a taxi model also depends on the support provided by the company. I believe some of the parts of these Xylos are still produced. The Etios on the other hand has disappeared among taxis for some reason. I hardly see it. Has Toyota stopped supporting it?

[14000rpm]

Originally Posted by Auto_guy_101

I would like to call this the Taxi test of the car. Through this thread, I would love to understand from you all
- Is this a sensible way of assessing fuss-free and cheap ownership?
-

Taxi's are a very good source of real-world data leading to Quality improvements. Some examples below. Now, given that I am citing Expensive cars as examples, it may not lead to answer Cheap ownership from India context.

Example 1 - Long time ago, my Airport Transfer taxi in Munich was a Mercedes E Class. The driver was, for a change, English speaking. Asked him the basic question I had been meaning to ask - Why Mercedes?

He cited his person experience. This was his second E Class. The 1st E Class was his first ever and he had driven it for a little over 1 Mn kms around which time the gearbox failed and the cost of replacing was over the value of the car. Nothing else had broken. If not for the GB failure, he would've put a few more 100k's on the odo.
According to him, a Mercedes has a very high reliability leading to very little downtime. Mercedes, as I've been told, collects real-world usage data and uses it back to improve quality.

Example 2 - Tesla. I ride many Tesla Taxi's. The common issues that I see on high mileage Tesla's are very high rumbling noise from the motors and squeaky interior trim. Although Tesla's don't need to be at service often, their response time for parts is quite slow and cost of components are very expensive I'm told. Therefore, many drive around despite there being issues. I've spoken to folk that drive Tesla's across many year models. There doesn't seem to be an effective feedback loop towards product quality. Even if there is, I'm not sure it is translating efficiently to the quality.

Mercedes, being the Veteran is using Taxi's as a test bed, is giving 2 yr unlimited miles zero-cost maintenance package for the EQE and EQS taxi's. This is Mercedes way of using data from Power users like Taxi's back to product quality team.

[RD410]

I started my career as a mechanic helper (to gain some experience for our famed MVD test ). The workshop where I used to work was a regular for Taxi drivers and Govt. vehicles / police vehicles. Apart from the reliable Innova's, Dzire's, Etios's the other surprisingly reliable cars that I encountered were Tata Indica/Indigo, Mahindra Renault Logan, Bolero, Xylo, Scorpio, XUV500 and Tata Sumo. Especially those Mahindra 2.5/2.6 crde, 2.2 MHawk and Tata 3.0 Dicor engines were outstandingly reliable. But there's a catch. Since a Taxi is means for their livelihood, the owners of these cars are very strict with their maintenance. They meticulously service their cars every 10k kms and replace each and everything that's needed to be replaced. So I think a car being reliable as a Taxi doesn't mean that it will be reliable for private use. Most Indian vehicles are already pretty durable, reliability mainly depends on their upkeep.

Never encountered any VW or Skoda used as a Taxi. But the lower variants of these were used as rental cars by my employer and thsoe were mostly reliable, but not cheap to maintain.