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-   -   The ethical dilemma of selling a lemon (https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian-car-scene/278171-ethical-dilemma-selling-lemon.html)

Lemons are a part of life. If you are unfortunate enough to get one it can be quite frustrating. Often these are discussed here and invariably the advise is to sell the lemon and move on.

I can't help ponder the moral dilemma - when you sell a lemon doesn't the buyer get the short end of the stick? Or does the buyer, because it's a second sale, and possibly a lower set of expectations, factor in the compromised product? Does one tell the prospective buyer about the problems s/he are about to adopt? Of course everyone has their own take on morality, but is there a fair practice or are no rules applicable? It would be fascinating to know how people deal with this particular type of misfortune.

What's considered a lemon to us may not necessarily be the same for others. Here's my personal experience to this point.

Few years ago, I purchased an Interceptor with high hopes, but soon noticed troubling signs such as engine noise and gear issues. Despite consulting mechanics who dismissed these concerns as normal, I couldn't shake the feeling that something was amiss. Dissatisfied with the vehicle, I found myself avoiding rides and preferring my other bikes ( Dominar ). Eventually, I made the decision to sell the bike.

I felt there was an issue with the engine, and I didn't like the vehicle. It always felt like I was riding a repaired product. I posted it on fb Marketplace, and a guy, a college student, reached out. He was passionate about motorcycles and seemed to have a collection of vehicles. I told him engine noise is there like timing chain issue or tappet adjustment kind but it is nothing to worry about, He wanted to test drive. During the test drive, he noticed something off with the engine, and the mechanic he brought along identified the issue and assured him it could be fixed. He relayed the problem to me, and I shared my concerns as well. In fairness, I dropped the price significantly for him.

Overpricing a defective product without disclosing its issues would indeed be considered unfair and unethical. In this case, after disclosing the problem and adjusting the price accordingly, the deal was closed fairly. The buyer took the vehicle, fought with the RE service center, and claimed warranty with my assistance and replaced some parts & he fixed the issue ( Which I coudln't do, I didnt have enough time in my hand to visit service centre every now & then ) but for him it was a hobbie and he is happy on working on such issues and He has more and more time on his hands.

Now, he's enjoying the bike on numerous long rides, fulfilling the dreams I once had. Riding to the destinations like Chennai to Goa, Mumbai, and Siliguri. His WhatsApp status reflects his genuine love for the bike. However, for me, the situation was quite the opposite. I couldn't find any joy in riding this particular bike; instead, it caused me irritation every time I took it out.

This experience taught me a valuable lesson - what may seem like a lemon to one person can hold untapped happiness for another.

In the end, fairness and honesty ensure that both parties can find satisfaction in their transactions.

Every thing has a price and a product at multiple conditions during its life stage becomes attractive to different set of customer cohorts depending on their perceived value vs the price it is offered to them

For example - If person X is paying 40L for a used Fortuner (lets say 2022 model) he would expect it to be in pristine condition with not loose ends, but if the price is 30L (2022 fortuner) then torn seats, couple of dents, silencer with holes is ok, if the price is 20L (2022 fortuner) then structural damage from the rear side (dicky) is acceptable (in repaised state), and if the price is 12L then structural damage in A or B or C pillar is ok and you will find buyer who can pay for a Total loss Car. Alteast you will definitely find X, Y , Z buyer at each state and price point

Yes lemons are in many cases inevitable and those "cursed owners" who feel they own a lemon, can always advertise it on any media as for sale.

However, concealing the defects from the buyer is unethical. And a price cut based on how sour the lemon is, for awareness of the buyer should be the norm.

Lemon sellers who are unethical and think they have fooled someone could be in for an unpleasant surprise when some upright buyer sends a court's notice for compensation.

I have owned two lemons

1. A Tata Sierra - kept breaking down. I ensured it was in proper working condition without any faults although anything could happen Sold it via a dealer who was playing dirty so I guess the car took revenge.
   
   
2. Skoda Octavia vRS - It had niggles, kept throwing an engine check light now and then. Agreed to a sale which took a while. I actually identified and resolved the fault during this period and it started running sweeter than when I owned it. The only fault was the climate control which would not blow hot air which I disclosed.

My take is - selling a lemon in proper working order, disclose all faults if any but dont play fortune teller. If you cannot sell in working order, be upfront and expect a haircut.

Ensure you solve or disclose a fault.

I also sold a 90k Swift in good condition with full service history. Unfortunately, 3 months later, it needed an engine rebuild. I felt sorry for the person but he accepted it was bad luck

Do not do unto others what you would not want done unto you :)

If it's a lemon be upfront with prospective buyer about the issues and bring down price or rectify issues and sell it.

Unfortunately, even my locality uncle was very much willing to sell me a lemon. At one point during the discussion, he slipped up and said I needed to spend 60k on repairs. Later on, he reassured the car had no major issues. I walked away from the deal. It seems people find it morally right to sell lemons. There is no legal recourse unless you have something in writing (like notarized). Lawyers can comment better on this.

Not worth thinking too much about this. Sell to Cars24 or Spinny and just be done with it. Disclose the problems you have faced (they will ask) and take the lower price offered.

When we call a car a lemon, it just means the authorized service center could not identify & fix the problem(s). But hypothetically, replacing the correct components will fix any car problem. Now if somebody like Cars24/Spinny is making an offer despite your disclosure, it probably means they have reasonable confidence to fix the problems to a large extent.

I agree with this. They have the means to technically evaluate and accept any risk.

Lemons come under two categories in my mind

1. Those models that have problems due to poor design or poor build like a lot of Tata's, high mileage Hyundai's, Polo diesels, mid 2000 Mercedes etc.
   
2. Those due to bodged repairs, neglected maintenance, flood damage etc.

There is no need be in a dilemma here. If you disclose all material facts about the car to the buyer prior to the deal, then it's a fair and bonafide sale. Any further issues will then be upto the buyer to deal with it.

On the other hand if you hide the issues with the vehicle and essentially throw the lemon to an unsuspecting buyer then thats deception and therefore unethical, may even be illegal at some parts of the world.

Curious about the title "The ethical dilemma of selling a lemon".

If you know it is a 'lemon', any sale at any price is unethical. Better to junk it.

I speak from a longer-term view. More 'polluting' (PUC-related) and more fuel used for fewer kilometres are just two visible impacts.

I ride what was once termed as 'lemon' (a bike from 2006). It gives me around 80kmpl (aka lemonade) and I use it instead of a beater car for distances less than 5km.

On a lighter note, as summer approaches, good to have a lemon(ade) :Cheering:;

I would just sell it to a used car dealer and try to extract max price out of the car. But better to disclose the issues and put them on a paper with signatures as one wouldn’t want any harassment from the dealer after transaction is completed.

Edit: I would never sell a lemon to individual buyer even with disclosing exact condition of the car! If the buyer is not fully able to comprehend the problem in his excitement of scoring a good deal and lands back at your house after a week (buyer’s remorse), it would be unnecessary headache!

I've never had a lemon and therefore never sold one.

All the cars I have sold, I have found genuine buyers and I always disclose the state of the car upfront. It is somewhat difficult for me to shortchange someone in this matter and therefore I disclose every dent, every issue that needs to be looked into going forward.

The other side to it is, I always sold my cars when they were mechanically in top condition. Except for minor issues such as worn gear knobs, peeling steering covers etc., mechanically the car would never give them trouble.

It would hurt my conscience if I sold a car in a bad state, but if the buyer is willing to accept all the risks, I'd not have that feeling.

For those interested in economics…

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Market_for_Lemons

I have been on the buyer end of a 'lemon' vehicle sale. The seller was honest enough to tell me all the troubles he faced with the Street Triple he was selling ( which included Triumph's bad service experience).
The price he was quoting was acceptable to me to buy the bike and try rectifying the problems. My friend who loves to tinker with motorcycles got rid of almost all problems in the bike. I've been a happy owner since. What was a lemon for the previous owner, is a good vehicle for me.


I feel that if everyone starts junking vehicles they feel are lemons it's going to be even worse for the environment.

Also why would you want to take a big loss and junk it if there's someone willing (like I once did) to buy it after knowing all the issues with the bike? Nothing unethical there.