[low_rider]

Originally Posted by aenkay91

A car like Wagon-R clocked >200k sales last year, what kind of message do you think that gives out to other car manufacturers?

Who buys a Wagon-R or a Celerio or Alto? Do those people not aspire to buy a Creta or Fortuner or Audi? But there is something called as affordability.

It might come as a surprise, but the average middle class person has to spend for kid's education, future expenses like marriages, healthcare, housing (rent/EMIs) and then maybe think of the car. He works hard to make ends meet and can't afford to give pleasant messages to car makers so that the privileged ones can have a dream lineup of cars.

[Small Bot]

Going back to the original topic, I feel that three cars deserve to sell more.

Kia EV6:
It's unfortunate how this falls much below the Hyundai Ioniq 5. It is objectively a brilliant car, is more curvy and sleeker than the Ioniq 5, but the prices seem to work heavily against it.

Maruti Invicto:
If Toyota can sell the Rumion in substantial numbers, Maruti should be able to sell the Invicto in substantial numbers too. There is zero difference in quality between the rebadged cars from these brands. It's probably Toyota's brand image, whether worth it or not.

MG ZS EV:
I've sat in the passenger seat of a friend's ZS EV and feel this is a very underrated EV. MG seem to have done a lot to advertise this car and it's a great product too, but it doesn't seem to translate to sales.

[VellVector]

Originally Posted by MotorDev

Competent cars that deserve to sell in higher numbers

I don't believe the premise that any product "deserves" to sell more. The market judges each product for what it offers and decides. Further a product is a sum of not only itself but also its brand, pricing and so many more factors that make up the package.

For Eg: Over the years, VW-Skoda have destroyed their brand to the point that most buyers in that segment would like to avoid a historically unreliable company. Now maybe only a feature loaded car that significantly delivers more and undercuts the price of the competition would make them relevant and even then they have to ensure that earlier customer service issues are completely dealt with.

Originally Posted by buzzy_boy

I disagree with the fundamental premise of this article. IMHO, every car sells as many units as it deserves - no more, no less. Reason = the market is the ultimate truth.

Take the Kodiaq for example. It doesn't sell more due to lack of diesel (fuel efficiency), expensive repair bills (ease of maintenance), and non-imposing styling (product positioning). To sell more, Skoda needs to fix one or more of these parameters.

Going further on the Kodiaq, the brand has to realise that its position and sell it more aggressively. When I was looking to buy one in 2022, after multiple follow-ups with the dealer it was impossible to even look at the car, forget buying one. It seemed clear that the Skoda dealers in Bangalore had absolutely no interest in selling that model.

Compare this to the best seller in the segment, where you would expect more lethargic sales staff - a call to the Toyota dealer in the morning and a Fortuner turned up that afternoon for a test drive with a eager sales associate carrying a booking form hoping to close a sale on the same day.

So the statement that the Kodiaq (or any other car) deserves to sell more is fundamentally false. It sells exactly how much it deserves. It would be accurate to say if all the flaws of the package were fixed then it has the potential to sell more.

[Cresterk]

Originally Posted by Small Bot

Maruti Invicto:
If Toyota can sell the Rumion in substantial numbers, Maruti should be able to sell the Invicto in substantial numbers too. There is zero difference in quality between the rebadged cars from these brands. It's probably Toyota's brand image, whether worth it or not.

Well that's how branding works isn't it? You rebrand something into a more desirable brand, people will want it. You rebrand into a less desirable one, well....

If Tata decides to rebrand a BMW X5 with a Tata Logo and then sells it for even 5-10L lower than BMW does, it's not going to find any buyers.

If BMW takes a Tata Safari and rebrands it into a BMW and sells it for 40L, plenty of people will buy it.

[chiekennugget]

Originally Posted by VellVector

When I was looking to buy one in 2022, after multiple follow-ups with the dealer it was impossible to even look at the car, forget buying one. It seemed clear that the Skoda dealers in Bangalore had absolutely no interest in selling that model.

Compare this to the best seller in the segment, where you would expect more lethargic sales staff - a call to the Toyota dealer in the morning and a Fortuner turned up that afternoon for a test drive with a eager sales associate carrying a booking form hoping to close a sale on the same day.

It was actually the other way around for us. The Skoda people very enthusiastic, called us a for a week straight.The sales representative was very knowledgable and was able to explain every feature very well.

The Toyota folk didn't care at all. When we went to the dealership, no one came to us. We asked for a Fortuner test drive and they just said "NO" They weren't even willing to show us a display car.

Wild how experiences change.

[vids2590]

Good list of underrated cars, but there will always be some cars that might not sell as well as others. There will always be a logical reason for most of the underperformance of a car. Just my opinion.

Take VAG cars as an example. This company started taking India seriously a few years back with country-specific products. VW & Skoda cars always had diesel engines, but no product put the sales chart on fire in recent memory. The showrooms of both these companies, at least where I live, can't hold a candle to Kia, Nexa & Hyundai. I have a Virtus, but I didn't buy it because the showroom attracted me; I bought it because I saw it from the window of my gym, loved how it looked, and the test drive confirmed my decision. The showroom was not in a good location; it was dull, small, and full of gray color. The same is the case with Skoda; let's not forget that both the company's showrooms didn't get any footfall for years. It is visible when you visit the showrooms. The car is good, but they did a poor job of making it desirable to the masses. If this time they get serious with India, they might get a piece of the pie.

Empty showrooms were also the case with Honda for a long time; the only semi-popular products they had were the City and Amaze. People simply forget the companies if they are not active for a long time. Take Renault as an example now; it's not the first company that comes to someone's mind when it comes to purchasing. Hyundai, Maruti-Suzuki, Kia, and now Tata & Mahindra have made their presence felt with multiple showrooms in even tier 2 cities.

The only car I can't fathom is the Kia Carens; that's a great car. Spacious, well-equipped, drives well, and isn't very big. Unlike the Mahindra Marazzo, this car has more than enough engine and gearbox options to keep everyone interested. The 3-star G-NCAP rating might be an issue, but so what? The INNOVA effect is so big that companies might never bring another MPV here again. A 7-seater SUV will do the deed.

[amol4184]

Every car on the list deserves the sales numbers it's getting. As in I can't actually understand why cars like Gloster should be selling more.

The only car that perhaps needs more attention from buyers is the Carens - every other car that shares showroom space with it is a hot seller so footfall is clearly not an issue and the car itself isn't flawed in any particular manner.

[slamnos]

The market is determined by what "CUSTOMER" wants and not what product alone offers.

Products listed here may be very good offerings but may not be as relevant to customers (including issues like after sales, service, emotional value and peace of mind)

This logic holds true not only for automobiles but that's how demand and supply function.

[NiInJa]

Having used both Amaze and Maruti Suzuki Dzire, I can safely say that the Amaze does not deserve to sell more, not more than the Dzire or even the competition at least.

The car has some basic issues compared to the competition. The seats are much more comfortable of the Dzire, especially the rear ones feel too basic. Under thigh support is lacking in Honda (a major gripe of the Brio platform). The built-in touch screen system of Honda is crap, with very poor audio quality compared to Dzire. Not that the Dzire's is great, but Amaze's Android Auto was freezing intermittently. Honda 1.2 ivtec engine lacks low end grunt when compared to the 1.2 vvt engine of the Dzire. That also makes it less fuel efficient as one has to work accelerator more in cities. Sure, the Honda makes it up on high speeds, but a normal sub-4m buyer will not do high speed runs that often. The plastics are not great and the dashboard feels cheap. The Dzire's top end version has better feel. The doors lack heft and feel thin. The only thing going for the Amaze compared to the competition is the smooth cvt.

Carens deserves more, but the higher model's prices go in the territory of the Seltos/Creta which are much better looking.

[Kevinrevvz]

I usually buy cars that are not too popular with the masses and you really need to do your research to even know they exist in the market. I feel like a few cars I’ve owned deserve a mention this list. These are some of the cars I’ve bought that I feel were/are criminally underrated.

Suzuki Kizashi




This would be at the top of my list. We’ve had 4 Sonatas, 3 Accords, 2 Camrys, 2 Superbs and a Kizashi in the garage. Needless to say that we are huge fans of D+ segment sedans.

Out of all of them, the Kizashi is my favourite by a mile. It has the best build and material quality I’ve experienced in the segment with a very solid feel, lots of soft touch elements and zero imperfections, rattles or squeaks 12 years and 1.08L Kms later.

The driving dynamics are also the best I’ve experienced in the segment where the steering is very precise and well weighted, the KYB suspension is quite stiff and very well calibrated that it could take corners unscathed at unbelievable speeds, the high speed stability is incredible, the Akebono brakes are very sure footed and the 2.4 litre naturally aspirated engine feels quite eager although it’s not the most powerful motor in the segment.

She turns heads till date and I keep her running even though parts have become hard to procure and the maintenance costs are equivalent to a German luxury car.
This car merely failed because of the fact that people weren’t willing to pay a premium for a car with a “Suzuki” badge no matter how good it was.

Hyundai Grand i10 Nios Turbo




“Turbo” being the keyword here, it spices up the otherwise decent commuter car. Such a small and light car with the 1.0 TGDI and a slick manual gearbox made it a hoot to drive. 0-100 comes up well under 10s and the lack of serious sound insulation meant that you could clearly hear the turbo spooling and blowing off. Although the driving dynamics of this car wasn’t close to a Polo or i20 N Line, this engine made it an occasion every time I drove it.

When I tried to buy one, some Hyundai dealers weren’t even aware of the fact that this variant existed but I finally managed to pick one up at a very good offer for ₹8L on-road. Till date I haven’t experienced a more fun car under the ₹10L mark as Hyundai had to unfortunately discontinue it due to poor marketing and low take rate for a performance hatch in this segment.

Honda City e:HEV




This is my latest purchase, about to touch the one year / 20K Km mark and I couldn’t be any happier. I believe this car has the perfect blend of performance and efficiency in the segment. I had owned the famed Typed 2 City VTEC and none of its successors were impressive enough to me until I drove this one.

The instant torque from the electric motor makes driving in the city a breeze and you could leave its turbocharged competition in the dust by the time they spool and shift from a standstill although the punch dulls down post 120Kmph. This makes the car really enjoyable to drive and it’s much more responsive, eager and smooth than the 3 cylinder hybrid in the Grand Vitara or Hyryder. This eager performance paired to a 20-25Kmpl efficiency figure makes it the best of both worlds and a no brainer in my books.

This car remains underrated due to several factors. Honda does a really poor job marketing it and the sales team aren’t trained to explain the benefits effectively. While some people are aware of the improved mileage, it would really help if Honda markets the drastically improved performance and responsiveness compared to the standard CVT City. Another major factor at play here is simply the lack of interest in sedans. People opt for the Grand Vitara or Hyryder instead purely owing to the fact that they’re crossovers despite sporting an inferior powertrain. Honda’s reluctance to offer this powertrain in the Elevate is surprising and it wouldn’t surprise me if they drop the Hybrid option altogether in the 6th generation City.

[mak.prasada]

Love that this article has gotten everyone talking.
While (C)-SUV/ cross overs demand have decreased the sales of sedans, VW/ Skoda's logic was to have both sedans (Virtus/ Slavia) and SUVs (Taigun/ Kushaq) to cover the entire market. However, all four of them have not achieved their potential.

1. The problem with VAG cars is the market perception that they are expensive to maintain and it is very true as well. The TSI engines are a marvel of engineering, but it is still expensive if they are used mostly in the city due to its petrol consumption.
2. The existing fan base that they amassed all have more or less written off the quality after enjoying a different standard in Vento/ Rapid. The TDI's are gone.
3. Their after-sales service is usually not that great and VW has tried to rein in the cost of spares, but service centres try to rake up the bill (personal experiences).

Having said that, every time I take out my car, I just love it to bits and enjoy my drive. So, all in all, the VW really need to address their market perception and get their service centres in order, maybe the all the 4 will have a good chance.

[fastestindian]

Originally Posted by buzzy_boy

If a car sells fewer units than anyone's perceived potential, the reason for the discrepancy is invariably due to some incomplete part of the "package". The factors are a multitude: fuel efficiency, product positioning, cost, design, ease of maintenance etc.

This statement almost entirely throws out the Nobel prize winning work by Kahneman and Tversky. If only people's decisions were entirely rational.

People buy things for a variety of reasons for sure but not all those reasons are rooted in rationality. Some people are insecure and avoid the risk of making an actual choice and just buy what their neighbours do. Others, deliberate to no end to avoid buyers remorse. Between these two extremes lie most people.

All this, "if only car X had feature Y" type pontifications are attempts to create a coherent story that fits with the outcome of the sale numbers. Reality is far more twisted.

Just as an example, people's goto gripes with Kushaq/Taigun are around reliability of Skoda/VW, costs, non imposing looks, absence of NA engines, mileage, lack of features like ADAS, etc. Almost all of which are sorted by Elevate, which itself, is now certifiably a dud.

I don't think this is a pointless question at all. In fact it attempts to dig into buyer psyche to understand the stark differences between the similar-ish cars that flood our market.

[VinsWagen]

Originally Posted by NiInJa

Carens deserves more, but the higher model's prices go in the territory of the Seltos/Creta which are much better looking.

True. But it's really counter-intuitive. A 7-seater with similar underpinnings should have fetched a higher price.

I always feel that the reason why the Carens doesn't sell much is because of its people mover/MUV image and styling. If someone wants to buy an MUV, they will likely go to Toyota or Maruti, where service and parts are perceived to be cheaper and more readily available.

If the Carens looked more robust, at least as much as the Seltos, it would have sold a lot more

[buzzy_boy]

Originally Posted by fastestindian

This statement almost entirely throws out the Nobel prize winning work by Kahneman and Tversky. If only people's decisions were entirely rational.

Quite to the contrary, I'm in fact defending Messers Kahneman and Tversky. All I'm saying is, the market rewards some cars more than others, and the reasons are not entirely rational.

Hence, I'm merely questioning OP's premise that competency = higher sales potential. The market may or may not choose to reward competency, but at the end of the day, it determines how many units a given car deserves to be sold.

[fastestindian]

well you say this

Originally Posted by buzzy_boy

Quite to the contrary, I'm in fact defending Messers Kahneman and Tversky. All I'm saying is, the market rewards some cars more than others, and the reasons are not entirely rational.

but also

Originally Posted by buzzy_boy

The market may or may not choose to reward competency, but at the end of the day, it determines how many units a given car deserves to be sold.

Sort of confusing because you use the word "deserves" which implies there's stuff brands are doing that are making them "more deserving" of the sales they get, while conceding that markets rewards some cars more than others without any rational bases.