Maintenance Scene for Modern Vehicles !!

man23ish · 27th January 2005, 16:07

Hey Fellas,

I've been thinking about this for quite some time now.. So i finally thought of posting it for others to think about this as well..

We've been hearing the introduction of a lot of new cars, read vtecs, crdis, mpfis, etc.. Along with addon features like turbos, intercoolers, superchargers, etc. Any idea of how are we going to maintain those vehicles?? Whether my local mechanic would be knowledgable enough to touch my swank new ford endeavour or the toyota innova?? When someone goes for a maintenance, who would guarantee that the service guy doesn't actually damage the vehicle internals?? I've been in a situation, where my mechanic blamed a genuine defect on fuel adulteration??

Not all of us are automotive engineers right?? And i thought this might be an interesting thread for new car buyers like me waiting to get their hands on the most modern state-of-the-art machines..

Shan2nu · 27th January 2005, 16:25

I don't see why you should think that way. If you look at the "problems per 100 car" list, the newer cars are doing much better than the older ones.

2-3 years ago, the old Honda City claimed the least problems per 100 vehicles with a figure of 135. In 2004 the NHC faced just 96 problems per 100 vehicles and still it had to play 2nd fiddle to the Corolla's figure of 83 problems.

Shan2nu

.anshuman · 27th January 2005, 16:28

crdi, vtec etc are too high tech even company dealers cant handle many problems in very basic indica.

Let me tell you this incident,last summers i went to mussorie for a holiday with my friends in my indica i got my fuel tank filled up at delhi even after some fast driving there was about a quarter diesel left in the tank when we reached dehradoon. I was told that fuel quality of the fuel sold on hill sattions is not good so i had my tank full from the most reputed petrol pump in doon.

after reaching mussouri i felt the car to be very jerky and not revving to the limit evn it was throwing a lot of smoke so i went to a local mechanic he found the diesel to be adulterated, so i got it drained and got the diesel pressure incresed to cope up with the problem temprorily, so the car started sounding like a spacio.

after i returned to delhi i directly went to nawab motors the tata dealer at noida he checked the car and told me that the pump has to be overhauled i dint have much time so i left it, after some days i went to rohtak raj motors he again told me my fuel pump needed overhaul that would cost around 5000rupees , he told me its 3-4 days job , again i left the place then i went to telmos automobiles the tata dealer in hisar he tried for the whole day but could not get the root of the problem so he recommended me to lucas dealer for pump check up,

so i went to lucas dealer in hisar,the mechanic there was a sardarji,he checked the car and told me its all due to just pump setting that i got changed to cope up with adulterated fuel he reduced the fuel pressure pump and told me to add some engine oil to diesel for next 2fillups and i could not believe my car was fine,no smoke,no noise.......and it was smoother than ever..... i was later told by that mechanic that he had seen a similar case in a palio diesel as it has a electronic pump the pump failed due to bad fuel quality and it was not covered under warranty....after that i am very particular about the pumps where i fill up.....

Note From Moderator: Please try and break up long posts into paragraphs to make it easier to read. Tnx

man23ish · 27th January 2005, 18:48

Exactly, the "problems per 100-car" list tells of any manufacturing defects and that too during the warranty period.. And i have a feeling that car-dealers try their best to keep the problems-per-100-car figures to the minimum to help their sales. I am yet to figure out how practical is the problems-per-100-car list.

Most problems can happen due to adulterated fuel, bad roads, wear and tear because of excessive gear-shifts in heavy traffic and in the worst case accidents. How equipped are our mechanics in authorised dealerships to deal with such problems?? Most of the mechanics in authorised dealerships seem to be novices or at best apprentices.. (Trust me when i say this).. They hardly know a thing about diagnosing a problem.. While i know that most modern engines come with an ECU unit to diagnose problems with the help of a computer plugin.. How many of our authorised garages have such sophisticated diagnostic machines and mechanisms??

To give another example, An oh-so-genius mechanic made me change my spark-plugs, distributor, rotor-cap and rotor for an engine misfiring problem when the oxygen sensor in the car was bad.. Of-course, later i had to replace the O2 sensory to get rid of the misfiring problem.. Repairs to any vehicle under wrong hands has huge costs, and these dream hi-tech engines would cost hefty sums if undertaken by a wrong person.

Did you get my point now??

Shan2nu · 27th January 2005, 19:20

But why will you want to give your car in the wrong hands? I don't let anyone else touch my car except Honda themselves. I've done 47K kms on it and haven't faced any engine related problems.

Thankfully, we have 2 Honda dealers in Karnataka now, so i can always take a 2nd opinion. I don't think it's a big problem.

I'd be worried if i owned a Ferrari or some other supercar which is not homologated for Indian conditions. But our cars are tuned for indian conditions.

I'm for Vtec, CRDI, MPFI, VVT-I and the lot. They're very reliable, efficient and easy to maintain.

Shan2nu

man23ish · 27th January 2005, 19:41

Agreed that Nobody gives a car to wrong hands on their own. But when you give your car to say a honda service centre, Do you know who is repairing your vehicle and do you check the credentials of the person repairing your vehicle??

Besides the authorised service centres will never tell you about manufacturing defects or the problems accidentally induced by inexperienced guys at the honda service centre. To give another example, I flushed my training fluid about a year and a half back. The guy at an authorised service station replaced the rubber gasket with a cotton gasket resulting in leakage after barely a weeks time. Who is to be blamed in such a scenario?? Of-course the garage replaced the gasket with an original rubber gasket. But who would pay for the wear and tear suffered by my transmission.. And what if i hadn't detected the leak in the first place.. Even after complaining they said that the nut-bolts might be loose and tightened the same, and were not willing to accept their fault.. And mind you, this was an AUTHORISED service station..

Besides, the second opinion from another authorised dealer is going to cause you more moolah right?? Its not the big problems that cause you much.. But its the minor defects (that don't cost much) causing the problem over a period of time..

One certainly doesn't expect this level of incompetency after spending a fortune on his dream vehicle right??

The question still remains.. isn't it??

Shan2nu · 27th January 2005, 19:52

Quote:

But when you give your car to say a honda service centre, Do you know who is repairing your vehicle and do you check the credentials of the person repairing your vehicle??

Yes, i do meet the guy who is working on the car. As far as credentials are concerned, i don't think even a Maybach or a Mclaren F1 owner asks for it.

And that goes for any company, not just the ones that make hi-fi engines. Even a M800 has a MPFi engine. So, how can you be sure that your maruti service guy is qualified?

BTW what car do you have?

Shan2nu

man23ish · 27th January 2005, 19:58

Toyota Camry. The toyota guys are extremely courteous no doubt.. But they just seem to think that i must be a rich guy to afford that car and that i wouldn't mind shelling a few bucks for pseudo-maintenance..

I had bought the car for its reliability, performance and efficiency..

Shan2nu · 27th January 2005, 20:27

Quote:

Toyota Camry. The toyota guys are extremely courteous no doubt.. But they just seem to think that i must be a rich guy to afford that car and that i wouldn't mind shelling a few bucks for pseudo-maintenance..

Well, the car itself is expensive. Service and parts are bound to be expensive too.

Shan2nu

man23ish · 28th January 2005, 12:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shan2nu

Well, the car itself is expensive. Service and parts are bound to be expensive too.

Shan2nu

Dude, i don't mind paying for actual defects. But its the pseudo defects which bothers me. How about if someone were to ripp your money saying you need to replace the fuel pump and the carburettor, when the problem is with a simple air filter. How would you feel?? I am not sure if you are getting the point.

Shan2nu · 28th January 2005, 12:23

Quote:

Dude, i don't mind paying for actual defects. But its the pseudo defects which bothers me. How about if someone were to ripp your money saying you need to replace the fuel pump and the carburettor, when the problem is with a simple air filter. How would you feel?? I am not sure if you are getting the point.

So why are you cornering only the dealership service centers, it can happen anywhere and to any car owner. If you want to be that careful, take a 2nd opinion on anything you find suspiscious, that's what i do.

Or, ask the dealership what the problem is, go online and find some info on it. The more you know about your car, lesser the chances of you getting duped.

When i had a prob with a tight steering, i went online and found out the reason why this can happen. There was wheel offset(inset, outset), stiff tie rods etc. And i found that the tie rods had indeed bcom stiff. Got them replaced fo 480 bucks.

If i hadn't read about it, prob someone would suggest a complete steering assembly change costing me more than 10 grand and i wouldn't know whether to believe it or not.

Shan2nu

man23ish · 28th January 2005, 12:36

Yeah dude, if i had that kind of time, i would become a mechanic myself.. Or maybe thats the reason i decided to become a bhpiian..

And i am not cornering any authorised dealerships.. The thread was started to get more knowledge about the servicing and maintenance of newer vehicles. Or maybe to vent my furor over mechanics who cheated me.. I am sure there are many others who have got cheated by their auto-mechanics as well.. And i wanted to know their opinion on the same..

I know that i am not being specific to any problem.. But I hope you agree its nevertheless good to know sources of information..

Deeps · 28th January 2005, 22:17

Firstly, i think that the problems per 100 cars is highly accurate statistic to make any judgements. Secondly, getting duped by mechanics, dealers etc. is rampant everywhere not just India. And its important to get 2nd opinions on a problem. team-bhp is the ideal place for that!!

puthari · 3rd March 2005, 16:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by man23ish

Yeah dude, if i had that kind of time, i would become a mechanic myself.. Or maybe thats the reason i decided to become a bhpiian..

And i am not cornering any authorised dealerships.. The thread was started to get more knowledge about the servicing and maintenance of newer vehicles. Or maybe to vent my furor over mechanics who cheated me.. I am sure there are many others who have got cheated by their auto-mechanics as well.. And i wanted to know their opinion on the same..

I know that i am not being specific to any problem.. But I hope you agree its nevertheless good to know sources of information..

I agree - I use the online to vent my anger against people or put up my opinion. I have started to wonder after you pointed out - I have given the City for many services - I have not checked for the credentials of the mechanic. I dont know how to . I simply assume that they are knowledgable . However , if the Dealer does not fix / identify the problem - I do not hesitate to escalate the issue .

I use mouthshut and now Bhp site (- exclusive for automotive). Hoping that we, as end users get value for our money and time - one day .

note:- this has been a very good discussion so far.

Gordon · 3rd March 2005, 17:22

one thing I do know, every Honda and Toyota Authorised dealer have technicians who are qualified. Each technician is trained. The rotten apples among them do jhol. But they wouldn't get anything out of it since every thing has documentation and paper work.

About maintenence of cars, the problems of the cars have decreased and you will not experience spending much on replacing company damaged parts [faults by the company]. However, the regular maintenence cost compared to earlier cars has I guess increased.

27th January 2005, 16:07	#1
man23ish BHPian Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Bangalore Posts: 626 Thanked: 18 Times	Maintenance Scene for Modern Vehicles !! Hey Fellas, I've been thinking about this for quite some time now.. So i finally thought of posting it for others to think about this as well.. We've been hearing the introduction of a lot of new cars, read vtecs, crdis, mpfis, etc.. Along with addon features like turbos, intercoolers, superchargers, etc. Any idea of how are we going to maintain those vehicles?? Whether my local mechanic would be knowledgable enough to touch my swank new ford endeavour or the toyota innova?? When someone goes for a maintenance, who would guarantee that the service guy doesn't actually damage the vehicle internals?? I've been in a situation, where my mechanic blamed a genuine defect on fuel adulteration?? Not all of us are automotive engineers right?? And i thought this might be an interesting thread for new car buyers like me waiting to get their hands on the most modern state-of-the-art machines..
	() Thanks

27th January 2005, 16:25	#2
Shan2nu Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Hubli - Karnata Posts: 5,533 Thanked: 125 Times View My Garage	I don't see why you should think that way. If you look at the "problems per 100 car" list, the newer cars are doing much better than the older ones. 2-3 years ago, the old Honda City claimed the least problems per 100 vehicles with a figure of 135. In 2004 the NHC faced just 96 problems per 100 vehicles and still it had to play 2nd fiddle to the Corolla's figure of 83 problems. Shan2nu
	() Thanks

27th January 2005, 16:28	#3
.anshuman Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Good-Gaon Posts: 7,763 Thanked: 11,064 Times View My Garage	crdi, vtec etc are too high tech even company dealers cant handle many problems in very basic indica. Let me tell you this incident,last summers i went to mussorie for a holiday with my friends in my indica i got my fuel tank filled up at delhi even after some fast driving there was about a quarter diesel left in the tank when we reached dehradoon. I was told that fuel quality of the fuel sold on hill sattions is not good so i had my tank full from the most reputed petrol pump in doon. after reaching mussouri i felt the car to be very jerky and not revving to the limit evn it was throwing a lot of smoke so i went to a local mechanic he found the diesel to be adulterated, so i got it drained and got the diesel pressure incresed to cope up with the problem temprorily, so the car started sounding like a spacio. after i returned to delhi i directly went to nawab motors the tata dealer at noida he checked the car and told me that the pump has to be overhauled i dint have much time so i left it, after some days i went to rohtak raj motors he again told me my fuel pump needed overhaul that would cost around 5000rupees , he told me its 3-4 days job , again i left the place then i went to telmos automobiles the tata dealer in hisar he tried for the whole day but could not get the root of the problem so he recommended me to lucas dealer for pump check up, so i went to lucas dealer in hisar,the mechanic there was a sardarji,he checked the car and told me its all due to just pump setting that i got changed to cope up with adulterated fuel he reduced the fuel pressure pump and told me to add some engine oil to diesel for next 2fillups and i could not believe my car was fine,no smoke,no noise.......and it was smoother than ever..... i was later told by that mechanic that he had seen a similar case in a palio diesel as it has a electronic pump the pump failed due to bad fuel quality and it was not covered under warranty....after that i am very particular about the pumps where i fill up..... *Note From Moderator: Please try and break up long posts into paragraphs to make it easier to read. Tnx* Last edited by Rtech : 27th January 2005 at 17:35.
	() Thanks

27th January 2005, 18:48	#4
man23ish BHPian Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Bangalore Posts: 626 Thanked: 18 Times	Exactly, the "problems per 100-car" list tells of any manufacturing defects and that too during the warranty period.. And i have a feeling that car-dealers try their best to keep the problems-per-100-car figures to the minimum to help their sales. I am yet to figure out how practical is the problems-per-100-car list. Most problems can happen due to adulterated fuel, bad roads, wear and tear because of excessive gear-shifts in heavy traffic and in the worst case accidents. How equipped are our mechanics in authorised dealerships to deal with such problems?? Most of the mechanics in authorised dealerships seem to be novices or at best apprentices.. (Trust me when i say this).. They hardly know a thing about diagnosing a problem.. While i know that most modern engines come with an ECU unit to diagnose problems with the help of a computer plugin.. How many of our authorised garages have such sophisticated diagnostic machines and mechanisms?? To give another example, An oh-so-genius mechanic made me change my spark-plugs, distributor, rotor-cap and rotor for an engine misfiring problem when the oxygen sensor in the car was bad.. Of-course, later i had to replace the O2 sensory to get rid of the misfiring problem.. Repairs to any vehicle under wrong hands has huge costs, and these dream hi-tech engines would cost hefty sums if undertaken by a wrong person. Did you get my point now??
	() Thanks

27th January 2005, 19:20	#5
Shan2nu Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Hubli - Karnata Posts: 5,533 Thanked: 125 Times View My Garage	But why will you want to give your car in the wrong hands? I don't let anyone else touch my car except Honda themselves. I've done 47K kms on it and haven't faced any engine related problems. Thankfully, we have 2 Honda dealers in Karnataka now, so i can always take a 2nd opinion. I don't think it's a big problem. I'd be worried if i owned a Ferrari or some other supercar which is not homologated for Indian conditions. But our cars are tuned for indian conditions. I'm for Vtec, CRDI, MPFI, VVT-I and the lot. They're very reliable, efficient and easy to maintain. Shan2nu
	() Thanks

27th January 2005, 19:41	#6
man23ish BHPian Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Bangalore Posts: 626 Thanked: 18 Times	Agreed that Nobody gives a car to wrong hands on their own. But when you give your car to say a honda service centre, Do you know who is repairing your vehicle and do you check the credentials of the person repairing your vehicle?? Besides the authorised service centres will never tell you about manufacturing defects or the problems accidentally induced by inexperienced guys at the honda service centre. To give another example, I flushed my training fluid about a year and a half back. The guy at an authorised service station replaced the rubber gasket with a cotton gasket resulting in leakage after barely a weeks time. Who is to be blamed in such a scenario?? Of-course the garage replaced the gasket with an original rubber gasket. But who would pay for the wear and tear suffered by my transmission.. And what if i hadn't detected the leak in the first place.. Even after complaining they said that the nut-bolts might be loose and tightened the same, and were not willing to accept their fault.. And mind you, this was an AUTHORISED service station.. Besides, the second opinion from another authorised dealer is going to cause you more moolah right?? Its not the big problems that cause you much.. But its the minor defects (that don't cost much) causing the problem over a period of time.. One certainly doesn't expect this level of incompetency after spending a fortune on his dream vehicle right?? The question still remains.. isn't it??
	() Thanks

27th January 2005, 19:58	#8
man23ish BHPian Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Bangalore Posts: 626 Thanked: 18 Times	Toyota Camry. The toyota guys are extremely courteous no doubt.. But they just seem to think that i must be a rich guy to afford that car and that i wouldn't mind shelling a few bucks for pseudo-maintenance.. I had bought the car for its reliability, performance and efficiency..
	() Thanks

28th January 2005, 12:36	#12
man23ish BHPian Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Bangalore Posts: 626 Thanked: 18 Times	Yeah dude, if i had that kind of time, i would become a mechanic myself.. Or maybe thats the reason i decided to become a bhpiian.. And i am not cornering any authorised dealerships.. The thread was started to get more knowledge about the servicing and maintenance of newer vehicles. Or maybe to vent my furor over mechanics who cheated me.. I am sure there are many others who have got cheated by their auto-mechanics as well.. And i wanted to know their opinion on the same.. I know that i am not being specific to any problem.. But I hope you agree its nevertheless good to know sources of information..
	() Thanks

28th January 2005, 22:17	#13
Deeps Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2004 Location: Delhi/Noida Posts: 1,116 Thanked: 170 Times	Firstly, i think that the problems per 100 cars is highly accurate statistic to make any judgements. Secondly, getting duped by mechanics, dealers etc. is rampant everywhere not just India. And its important to get 2nd opinions on a problem. team-bhp is the ideal place for that!!
	() Thanks

3rd March 2005, 17:22	#15
Gordon Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Mumbai Posts: 2,546 Thanked: 483 Times View My Garage	one thing I do know, every Honda and Toyota Authorised dealer have technicians who are qualified. Each technician is trained. The rotten apples among them do jhol. But they wouldn't get anything out of it since every thing has documentation and paper work. About maintenence of cars, the problems of the cars have decreased and you will not experience spending much on replacing company damaged parts [faults by the company]. However, the regular maintenence cost compared to earlier cars has I guess increased.
	() Thanks