Consumer Diesel on a Premium?

pgsagar · 15th June 2008, 20:44

1,

Quote:

Originally Posted by vkochar

Well - Diesel would sell one day at a very high price & not at subsidised rates, but till then enjoy Diesels as much as you can.

2.As of right now I think Govt. will Increase the Tax on Diesel Vehicles more.

1. What subsidies? Automotive fuel is already taxed more in India than anywhere else in the world. I read sometime back in a vernacular daily that cost price of petrol at refinery gate is Rs.15. When refinery profit, freight, insurance and TAXES in various form by GOI and State Govts. is added it goes up to Rs.50/-. On one hand the Govts. are looting the citizens and they have the temerity to say they are subsidizing. Isn't there any organization to expose Govt.'s loot? Beats me how they say they are subsidizing even after this great rip off.

2. The hungry greedy Govt. is stooping to new lows. Opposition is silent, too. Because tomorrow when they come to power, they can partake in this loot, too.

diffsoft · 15th June 2008, 20:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by given2fly

We all have been craving for Diesel cars which are oh so good for fuel economy but not good for environment. .

It is a mis-conception that diesel is more polluting than petrol. On a per km basis which is the right measure, petrol sends out more NOx and CO2 vs diesel. Diesel has more particulate matter though which is considered more carcinogenic.

Check this link out for more details http://www.ace.mmu.ac.uk/Resources/F...ion/pdf/26.pdf

Cheers,

snaronikar · 15th June 2008, 21:19

If above is the case, then I will definately buy a diesel due to its FE and the engine is torquey. Moreover, modern diesel engines emits less smoke when compared to the situation around 5 years back.

diffsoft · 16th June 2008, 10:32

Let me correct myself - Petrol with a catalytic converter emits less NOx compared to Diesel. I presume all our new model petrol cars will have a catalytic converter.

In any case both petrol and diesel are harmful to the environment.

Cheers,

srijit · 16th June 2008, 10:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by theMAG

Not to mention the certain bootlegging in transport-diesel that'll occur.

Why dont we start our own transport service?
Name: TBHP transport
Purpose: Transport fuel to needy cars

raj.barcode · 17th June 2008, 10:35

Hello all

I was just thinking whether we can think of a lets say

Diesel is priced lower in our country to help mass transportation to work out cheaper for all those monstrous lorries etc..
can it be say for all white board owned diesel vehicles a price of diesel may be lets say 55 rupees and reduce the cost of petrol or probably equate it to petrol ( as it is in most developed countries ) so that oil companies may not crib and loss in revenue controlled.

Say

For all mass transportation vehicles r.t.o issues a permit to fill diesel at concessional price

(because all petrolheads seems to be paying for a little diesel as well)

lurker · 17th June 2008, 12:52

this idea of additional tax consumer diesel is a flop.

the entire IT industry in India esp in Bangalore, Noida, Gurgaon, Pune works on diesel Gensets. This apart from shopping malls, residential complexes, factories, industrial parks that are forced to work on diesel gensets in absence of reliable mains supply.

this segment has not interest in diesel but is forced to opt for diesel gensets because the Govt has failed in its duty to provide reliable and clean power supply.

Any extra duty on the diesel genset users will mean a loss of competitiveness and spiralling inflation in peripheral products that are manufactured in those industries.

raul · 17th June 2008, 14:09

Only diesel and keresone is sold at less than market prices currently. Petrol is 20 bucks more than market prices currently and is taking the burden of subsiding other fuels especially diesel.

How transparent is India's oil policy?.

Clearly this is not sustainable to offer subsidies to sections of populations that don't need it and should be funds better used for directly assisting those in real need and there are plenty who are in dire need of help in terms of life and death in India. So I don't see how anyone can continue to justify subsidies that don't reach those in need.

praveen_v · 17th June 2008, 17:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by raj.barcode

Diesel is priced lower in our country to help mass transportation to work out cheaper for all those monstrous lorries etc..
can it be say for all white board owned diesel vehicles a price of diesel may be lets say 55 rupees and reduce the cost of petrol or probably equate it to petrol ( as it is in most developed countries ) so that oil companies may not crib and loss in revenue controlled.
SayFor all mass transportation vehicles r.t.o issues a permit to fill diesel at concessional price
(because all petrolheads seems to be paying for a little diesel as well)

The idea is good but it can never be implemented practically. This will create a bigger blackmarket for diesel where Truck/bus owners will fill at a cheaper rate in the pump and the sell it outside to private cars for a little higher price and pocket the money. Just like selling black tickets for a movie.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lurker

this idea of additional tax consumer diesel is a flop.

the entire IT industry in India esp in Bangalore, Noida, Gurgaon, Pune works on diesel Gensets. This apart from shopping malls, residential complexes, factories, industrial parks that are forced to work on diesel gensets in absence of reliable mains supply.

this segment has not interest in diesel but is forced to opt for diesel gensets because the Govt has failed in its duty to provide reliable and clean power supply.

Any extra duty on the diesel genset users will mean a loss of competitiveness and spiralling inflation in peripheral products that are manufactured in those industries.

You are right. Someitme back I read an article on how a "BIG IT Company" spends upto 19Lakhs per day for running it's generators because of the power shortage.

rajneeesh · 18th June 2008, 10:43

Bharat ram is a part of the Shrriram group that has a stake in Honda Siel Cars India. Honda cars are selling well with the significant threat coming from the Diesel cars from Hyundai,Ford, Maruti( SX4 Diesel) Skoda stables. It is no surprise that he advocates a higher tax on Diesel vehicles.

Although the government would like us to believe that there a hevy subsidy on Diesel, the fact remains that motor fuels in India are heavily taxed. Govt should cut subsidy on kitchen fuels like LPG and Kerosene ( which costs the same as Diesel aor petrol to produce) which are diverted for commercial use and adulteration of fuel. The aam aadmi hardly gets his quota of Kerosene at the ration shops.

WindRide · 31st January 2010, 10:05

Looks like this poll is closed, but i feel the issue is still relevant considering the ever increasing sales of diesel cars.

To use subsidised diesel to run private passenger vehicles amounts to cheating. Diesel is NOT subsidised by the govt so that families can better explore our vast country by road.

But what can be done? No govt will be brave enough to bring parity of prices between petrol and diesel.
Dual-pricing for diesel will not work as well, as this would lead to black-marketeering and hoarding.

IMO, the following can be possible solutions.
[Caveat - the below thoughts are entirely based on the creation of a hypothetical diesel engine variant that will work only on premium diesel (which costs the same as petrol fuel).]

1. Passenger and commercial diesel vehicles to run different variants of engines. The subsidised diesel should not work on the engine used in passenger vehicle. The premuim diesel, that is to be used on passenger cars, costs the same as petrol. In every price hike thereof, govt retains price parity between petrol and premium diesel. Commercial diesel continues to be subsidised. If its technically impossible to use the subsidised diesel in passenger vehicles, there will be no demand for the same by private car owners.

2. Petrol passenger vehicle's ex-showroom prices are artificially inflated to match the price of diesel passenger vehicle. Customer will have no reason anymore to buy a petrol car since it costs the same as a diesel car and also diesel car will be more fuel efficient. Fuel for both costs the same anyway. Also, diesel is a better fuel to use, environment-wise. Common man is to be educated on this.

View Poll Results: I will buy a Diesel car irrespective of the pump prices for diesel vis-a-vis petrol.
Yes, I will.	37	45.12%
No ways. I will then opt for Petrol.	45	54.88%
Voters: 82. You may not vote on this poll

15th June 2008, 21:19	#33
snaronikar Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Bengaluru Posts: 2,845 Thanked: 29 Times View My Garage	If above is the case, then I will definately buy a diesel due to its FE and the engine is torquey. Moreover, modern diesel engines emits less smoke when compared to the situation around 5 years back.
	() Thanks

16th June 2008, 10:32	#34
diffsoft BHPian Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Bangalore Posts: 773 Thanked: 404 Times	Let me correct myself - Petrol with a catalytic converter emits less NOx compared to Diesel. I presume all our new model petrol cars will have a catalytic converter. In any case both petrol and diesel are harmful to the environment. Cheers,
	() Thanks

17th June 2008, 10:35	#36
raj.barcode BHPian Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Bangalore Posts: 707 Thanked: 275 Times View My Garage	Equating prices Hello all I was just thinking whether we can think of a lets say Diesel is priced lower in our country to help mass transportation to work out cheaper for all those monstrous lorries etc.. can it be say for all white board owned diesel vehicles a price of diesel may be lets say 55 rupees and reduce the cost of petrol or probably equate it to petrol ( as it is in most developed countries ) so that oil companies may not crib and loss in revenue controlled. Say For all mass transportation vehicles r.t.o issues a permit to fill diesel at concessional price (because all petrolheads seems to be paying for a little diesel as well)
	() Thanks

17th June 2008, 12:52	#37
lurker Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Tura Posts: 1,600 Thanked: 1,438 Times	this idea of additional tax consumer diesel is a flop. the entire IT industry in India esp in Bangalore, Noida, Gurgaon, Pune works on diesel Gensets. This apart from shopping malls, residential complexes, factories, industrial parks that are forced to work on diesel gensets in absence of reliable mains supply. this segment has not interest in diesel but is forced to opt for diesel gensets because the Govt has failed in its duty to provide reliable and clean power supply. Any extra duty on the diesel genset users will mean a loss of competitiveness and spiralling inflation in peripheral products that are manufactured in those industries.
	() Thanks

17th June 2008, 14:09	#38
raul BHPian Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Pune Posts: 920 Thanked: 374 Times	Only diesel and keresone is sold at less than market prices currently. Petrol is 20 bucks more than market prices currently and is taking the burden of subsiding other fuels especially diesel. How transparent is India's oil policy?. Clearly this is not sustainable to offer subsidies to sections of populations that don't need it and should be funds better used for directly assisting those in real need and there are plenty who are in dire need of help in terms of life and death in India. So I don't see how anyone can continue to justify subsidies that don't reach those in need.
	() Thanks

18th June 2008, 10:43	#40
rajneeesh Senior - BHPian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: noida Posts: 1,118 Thanked: 557 Times	Bharat ram is a part of the Shrriram group that has a stake in Honda Siel Cars India. Honda cars are selling well with the significant threat coming from the Diesel cars from Hyundai,Ford, Maruti( SX4 Diesel) Skoda stables. It is no surprise that he advocates a higher tax on Diesel vehicles. Although the government would like us to believe that there a hevy subsidy on Diesel, the fact remains that motor fuels in India are heavily taxed. Govt should cut subsidy on kitchen fuels like LPG and Kerosene ( which costs the same as Diesel aor petrol to produce) which are diverted for commercial use and adulteration of fuel. The aam aadmi hardly gets his quota of Kerosene at the ration shops.
	() Thanks

31st January 2010, 10:05	#41
WindRide BHPian Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Bangalore Posts: 685 Thanked: 482 Times	Looks like this poll is closed, but i feel the issue is still relevant considering the ever increasing sales of diesel cars. To use subsidised diesel to run private passenger vehicles amounts to cheating. Diesel is NOT subsidised by the govt so that families can better explore our vast country by road. But what can be done? No govt will be brave enough to bring parity of prices between petrol and diesel. Dual-pricing for diesel will not work as well, as this would lead to black-marketeering and hoarding. IMO, the following can be possible solutions. [Caveat - the below thoughts are entirely based on the creation of a hypothetical diesel engine variant that will work only on premium diesel (which costs the same as petrol fuel).] 1. Passenger and commercial diesel vehicles to run different variants of engines. The subsidised diesel should not work on the engine used in passenger vehicle. The premuim diesel, that is to be used on passenger cars, costs the same as petrol. In every price hike thereof, govt retains price parity between petrol and premium diesel. Commercial diesel continues to be subsidised. If its technically impossible to use the subsidised diesel in passenger vehicles, there will be no demand for the same by private car owners. 2. Petrol passenger vehicle's ex-showroom prices are artificially inflated to match the price of diesel passenger vehicle. Customer will have no reason anymore to buy a petrol car since it costs the same as a diesel car and also diesel car will be more fuel efficient. Fuel for both costs the same anyway. Also, diesel is a better fuel to use, environment-wise. Common man is to be educated on this.
	() Thanks