Chrysler turns heat on M&M over Scorpio

Zappo · 13th August 2008, 11:59

Chrysler is already going through some bad times. They are in a financial mess and rumours are pretty strong that they may have to declare a closure and a bankruptcy unless they find a wealthy suitor. Their models are also floundering nowadays in the US markets (their mainstay) partly because of the ongoing fuel crisis (and partly because of other reasons including their own). In fact Chrsler is trying to rope in the current sugardaddy of the industrial world, the Tatas, to hitch onto their bandwagon.

In such circumstances I won't be surprised if they decided to get some desperate spotlight on themselves and their models by creating all this fuss. And if they can make some money in the bargain it will be even sweeter. They can already smell some big trouble in their already in-shambles paradise.

Blue Thunder · 13th August 2008, 12:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsk1979

Grill type fuss?
whats this world coming to.
In other news. GM sues Tata because it has the same number of tires on its cars!

M&M has been using this Jeep thingy on its jeeps for a long time. Now is that a trademark? I think commander etc., are bigger trademark violations than the Scorpio, which is just mildly similar.

M&M had the license ( from Chrysler, who are the owners of this brand/registered trademark) to use the "Jeep" name till 1994. After 1994, M&M cannot use the Jeep name in their products. Yes, "Jeep" is a registered trademark.

.

jayguar · 13th August 2008, 12:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by rallystar

There is a rumor that Chrysler is already testing the 5 door jeep in India for possible launching and that they also have set up an office in Chennai .can any one confirm this.
cheers

After seeing your post, googled and found these links.

(About the Chennai office) Moneycontrol >> News >> Business >> Chrysler’s Indian test drive

and this

(Chrysler in negotiations with Tata, Fiat to help boost bottom line) Posts tagged Chrysler india at Autoblog

srishiva · 13th August 2008, 12:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaliforniaKnight

How come the hummer use's the same grill?? Do they have a special permission?

Chrysler did sue GM a few years ago when H2 was introduced. The case was thrown out. It was deemed that people are not going to buy a hummer confusing it for a Jeep.

simplyself · 13th August 2008, 13:03

Mahindra are not using word 'Jeep' now a days.

I have read in an auto mag that the Scorpio predates an identical design (of front grill) of Jeep Wrangler and the poser that who is imitating who.

Steeroid · 13th August 2008, 13:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by simplyself

I have read in an auto mag that the Scorpio predates an identical design (of front grill) of Jeep Wrangler and the poser that who is imitating who.

That is quite a long (and ambitious) shot, dont you think?

Karandeep81 · 13th August 2008, 13:26

this is exactly what happens when an automobile company is run by investors and not by a proper corporate. and now that they are in deep financial trouble they want to cash in on some moolah. didnt they see this when the scorpio was launched ages ago?

i do agree with 1100 D that no one is wrong here but they need to work around the table and get things sorted

shankar.balan · 13th August 2008, 19:22

the scorp grill can probably be said to be "inspired by" the original jeep slatted grill, but it is not a complete copy or knock off. What about the Mahindra Maxi then? and the MM540 and the other vehicles? Indeed, that MM540 which we had in 1984-1985 actually had the word JEEP written on the side of the front mud flap/fender, bolted on a metal plate.I know that M&M had the jeep license and all that, but thats precisely the point -having paid Jeep royalties for years, Im sure there is a legal way to exploit the connection!

But then, so can the radiator grilles of many other vehicles be said to be Jeep copies! Indeed, even the old ugly Hyundai Terracan grill can be said to have been inspired by the jeep grill!

This is a bit of nonsense cooked up by Chrysler according to me possibly because they are not too keen on having low priced acceptable quality products like Scorpio for the US Market. Like being a "dog in the manger" !

Another thing, most "design" is "inspired by" something or other. This is a polite way of accepting it is a sort of a "knock off." Take the octagonal case shape of the Audemars Piguet watches and see how many other brands have been inspired by that shape. Or take the dial type and font of the Franck Muller Watches and see how many other brands have taken inspiration from it!

Even the Ford GT 40 was inspired clearly by European Design!

And again, you have all these high street brands of shoes, including our own ID and so on, all of whom have taken inspiration from the Adidas 3 stripe design - there was even a case recently against Tesco or Marks and Sparks or someone filed by Adidas who claimed that these retailers were selling shoes with marks "deceptively similar to" the 3 stripe design!

"Inspiration" in design can be taken by anyone, its just a matter of who wakes up and creates a scene first I guess! And of course, it is also about who listens and takes action on the same.All I know is that if they make a case out of it, it may not really stand up in court, except possibly in the Americas and that too, only because of the influence Chrysler Corp can bring to bear in that market.

And then, what about the innumerable Chinese knock offs of popular GM, FORD and other manufacturers vehicles, not to mention the whole industry they have, built around knock offs of every possible brand in the world! Right from the Luxury brands like Louis Vuitton , Prada and the like, to the more humble mass market brands like Sony and so on!

shankar.balan · 13th August 2008, 19:29

the scorp grill can probably be said to be "inspired by" the original jeep slatted grill, but it is not a complete copy or knock off. What about the Mahindra Maxi then? and the MM540 and the other vehicles? Indeed, that MM540 which we had in 1984-1985 actually had the word JEEP written on the side of the front mud flap/fender, bolted on a metal plate. I know that M&M had the jeep license and all that, but thats precisely the point -having paid Jeep royalties for years, Im sure there is a legal way to exploit the connection!

But then, so can the radiator grilles of many other vehicles be said to be Jeep copies! Indeed, even the old ugly Hyundai Terracan grill can be said to have been inspired by the jeep grill!

This is a bit of nonsense cooked up by Chrysler according to me possibly because they are not too keen on having low priced acceptable quality products like Scorpio for the US Market. Like being a "dog in the manger" !

Another thing, most "design" is "inspired by" something or other. This is a polite way of accepting it is a sort of a "knock off." Take the octagonal case shape of the Audemars Piguet watches and see how many other brands have been inspired by that shape. Or take the dial type and font of the Franck Muller Watches and see how many other brands have taken inspiration from it!

Even the Ford GT 40 was inspired clearly by European Design!

And again, you have all these high street brands of shoes, including our own ID and so on, all of whom have taken inspiration from the Adidas 3 stripe design - there was even a case recently against Tesco or Marks and Sparks or someone filed by Adidas who claimed that these retailers were selling shoes with marks "deceptively similar to" the 3 stripe design!

"Inspiration" in design can be taken by anyone, its just a matter of who wakes up and creates a scene first I guess! And of course, it is also about who listens and takes action on the same.All I know is that if they make a case out of it, it may not really stand up in court, except possibly in the Americas and that too, only because of the influence Chrysler Corp can bring to bear in that market.

And then, what about the innumerable Chinese knock offs of popular GM, FORD and other manufacturers vehicles, not to mention the whole industry they have, built around knock offs of every possible brand in the world! Right from the Luxury brands like Louis Vuitton , Prada and the like, to the more humble mass market brands like Sony and so on!

muralisk · 13th August 2008, 19:31

I am quite surprised that Chrysler took all these years to sue M&M. My first reaction was how could these guys lift the front grill design from Jeep.

anjan_c2007 · 13th August 2008, 19:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by [B

shankar.balan[/b];938805]the scorp grill can probably be said to be "inspired by" the original jeep slatted grill, but it is not a complete copy or knock off. What about the Mahindra Maxi then? and the MM540 and the other vehicles? Indeed, that MM540 which we had in 1984-1985 actually had the word JEEP written on the side of the front mud flap/fender, bolted on a metal plate.I know that M&M had the jeep license and all that, but thats precisely the point -having paid Jeep royalties for years, Im sure there is a legal way to exploit the connection!

The MM540 bodyshell,suspension and chassis belonged to an outdated model of the JEEP and was bought by M&M from Chrysler Motors, for use in India just like the Vauxhall Victor dies, jigs and stampings of 1973 were bought by HM for the Contessa.
So M&M were legally entitled to use these for their UV that had the 2112cc Peugeot XD540P engine and gearbox from Kia.
But the Scorpio controversy adds a totally new angle to the whole story, showing that the relations between Chrysler and M&M have turned sour.

1100D · 13th August 2008, 20:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by sukiwa

Don't understand why it took 6 years for Chrysler to realise this? Or is it due to launch of Scorpio in USA that triggered this?

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsk1979

Grill type fuss?
whats this world coming to.
In other news. GM sues Tata because it has the same number of tires on its cars!

M&M has been using this Jeep thingy on its jeeps for a long time. Now is that a trademark? I think commander etc., are bigger trademark violations than the Scorpio, which is just mildly similar.

I think there is more to it than just the grill issue. The real factor can be something else, trying to give Mahindra a bumpy ride into US.

Thinking of it from some other angle. There could be another homegrown firm that could be involved from the back end.

We know that Tata and Chrysler are having talks over using Chrysler to market and sell the electric Tata Ace.

Chrysler to import Tata Ace

I have no reasons to beleive that those talks will be limited to a single product only, going forward. In that case it makes perfect sense to find ways to give the other one a harder time.

.anshuman · 13th August 2008, 20:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by sgmuser

Personally I do not any resemblance! I see more resemblence with Hyundai Terracan than Jeep. Are they talking about any other model? We should stop listening to this Gora's and we should file a case rather.

The grille was later changed to honeycomb.

mjothi · 13th August 2008, 22:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blue Thunder

M&M had the license ( from Chrysler, who are the owners of this brand/registered trademark) to use the "Jeep" name till 1994. After 1994, M&M cannot use the Jeep name in their products. Yes, "Jeep" is a registered trademark.

.

Yes Jeep is registered trademark. But M&M claims that they have been advertising as jeep (lower case j). Not sure if this is really valid, but was just wondering what all response we get from the company.

-GT- · 13th August 2008, 23:11

In my knowledge, Jeep always had 7 vertical slats in the front grille. In fact, when Scorpio was introduced, the first thing that came to my mind was the 7 slat grille that Scorpio used - and the "design inspiration" that they could have got from the Jeeps.

But Chrysler going after them for that is simply stupid. Chrysler's Jeeps are of a different pedigree when compared to a Scorpio (a mish mash of Indian design, with certain 'jeepish inspirations' and a Renault engine (I don't have any knowledge of Renault having ever powered (leave alone produced) a 4x4.

13th August 2008, 11:59	#16
Zappo Team-BHP Support Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Hyderabad Posts: 5,922 Thanked: 2,699 Times	Chrysler is already going through some bad times. They are in a financial mess and rumours are pretty strong that they may have to declare a closure and a bankruptcy unless they find a wealthy suitor. Their models are also floundering nowadays in the US markets (their mainstay) partly because of the ongoing fuel crisis (and partly because of other reasons including their own). In fact Chrsler is trying to rope in the current sugardaddy of the industrial world, the Tatas, to hitch onto their bandwagon. In such circumstances I won't be surprised if they decided to get some desperate spotlight on themselves and their models by creating all this fuss. And if they can make some money in the bargain it will be even sweeter. They can already smell some big trouble in their already in-shambles paradise.
	() Thanks

13th August 2008, 13:03	#20
simplyself Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Hyderabad Posts: 1,051 Thanked: 621 Times	Mahindra are not using word 'Jeep' now a days. I have read in an auto mag that the Scorpio predates an identical design (of front grill) of Jeep Wrangler and the poser that who is imitating who.
	() Thanks

13th August 2008, 13:26	#22
Karandeep81 BHPian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: UK/Ahmedabad Posts: 192 Thanked: 0 Times	this is exactly what happens when an automobile company is run by investors and not by a proper corporate. and now that they are in deep financial trouble they want to cash in on some moolah. didnt they see this when the scorpio was launched ages ago? i do agree with 1100 D that no one is wrong here but they need to work around the table and get things sorted
	() Thanks

13th August 2008, 19:22	#23
shankar.balan BANNED Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Bangalore Posts: 11,368 Thanked: 23,150 Times View My Garage Infractions: 0/2 (8)	the scorp grill can probably be said to be "inspired by" the original jeep slatted grill, but it is not a complete copy or knock off. What about the Mahindra Maxi then? and the MM540 and the other vehicles? Indeed, that MM540 which we had in 1984-1985 actually had the word JEEP written on the side of the front mud flap/fender, bolted on a metal plate.I know that M&M had the jeep license and all that, but thats precisely the point -having paid Jeep royalties for years, Im sure there is a legal way to exploit the connection! But then, so can the radiator grilles of many other vehicles be said to be Jeep copies! Indeed, even the old ugly Hyundai Terracan grill can be said to have been inspired by the jeep grill! This is a bit of nonsense cooked up by Chrysler according to me possibly because they are not too keen on having low priced acceptable quality products like Scorpio for the US Market. Like being a "dog in the manger" ! Another thing, most "design" is "inspired by" something or other. This is a polite way of accepting it is a sort of a "knock off." Take the octagonal case shape of the Audemars Piguet watches and see how many other brands have been inspired by that shape. Or take the dial type and font of the Franck Muller Watches and see how many other brands have taken inspiration from it! Even the Ford GT 40 was inspired clearly by European Design! And again, you have all these high street brands of shoes, including our own ID and so on, all of whom have taken inspiration from the Adidas 3 stripe design - there was even a case recently against Tesco or Marks and Sparks or someone filed by Adidas who claimed that these retailers were selling shoes with marks "deceptively similar to" the 3 stripe design! "Inspiration" in design can be taken by anyone, its just a matter of who wakes up and creates a scene first I guess! And of course, it is also about who listens and takes action on the same.All I know is that if they make a case out of it, it may not really stand up in court, except possibly in the Americas and that too, only because of the influence Chrysler Corp can bring to bear in that market. And then, what about the innumerable Chinese knock offs of popular GM, FORD and other manufacturers vehicles, not to mention the whole industry they have, built around knock offs of every possible brand in the world! Right from the Luxury brands like Louis Vuitton , Prada and the like, to the more humble mass market brands like Sony and so on! Last edited by shankar.balan : 13th August 2008 at 19:32.
	() Thanks

13th August 2008, 19:29	#24
shankar.balan BANNED Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Bangalore Posts: 11,368 Thanked: 23,150 Times View My Garage Infractions: 0/2 (8)	the scorp grill can probably be said to be "inspired by" the original jeep slatted grill, but it is not a complete copy or knock off. What about the Mahindra Maxi then? and the MM540 and the other vehicles? Indeed, that MM540 which we had in 1984-1985 actually had the word JEEP written on the side of the front mud flap/fender, bolted on a metal plate. I know that M&M had the jeep license and all that, but thats precisely the point -having paid Jeep royalties for years, Im sure there is a legal way to exploit the connection! But then, so can the radiator grilles of many other vehicles be said to be Jeep copies! Indeed, even the old ugly Hyundai Terracan grill can be said to have been inspired by the jeep grill! This is a bit of nonsense cooked up by Chrysler according to me possibly because they are not too keen on having low priced acceptable quality products like Scorpio for the US Market. Like being a "dog in the manger" ! Another thing, most "design" is "inspired by" something or other. This is a polite way of accepting it is a sort of a "knock off." Take the octagonal case shape of the Audemars Piguet watches and see how many other brands have been inspired by that shape. Or take the dial type and font of the Franck Muller Watches and see how many other brands have taken inspiration from it! Even the Ford GT 40 was inspired clearly by European Design! And again, you have all these high street brands of shoes, including our own ID and so on, all of whom have taken inspiration from the Adidas 3 stripe design - there was even a case recently against Tesco or Marks and Sparks or someone filed by Adidas who claimed that these retailers were selling shoes with marks "deceptively similar to" the 3 stripe design! "Inspiration" in design can be taken by anyone, its just a matter of who wakes up and creates a scene first I guess! And of course, it is also about who listens and takes action on the same.All I know is that if they make a case out of it, it may not really stand up in court, except possibly in the Americas and that too, only because of the influence Chrysler Corp can bring to bear in that market. And then, what about the innumerable Chinese knock offs of popular GM, FORD and other manufacturers vehicles, not to mention the whole industry they have, built around knock offs of every possible brand in the world! Right from the Luxury brands like Louis Vuitton , Prada and the like, to the more humble mass market brands like Sony and so on! Last edited by shankar.balan : 13th August 2008 at 19:31.
	() Thanks

13th August 2008, 19:31	#25
muralisk BHPian Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Hyderabad, Bangalore Posts: 711 Thanked: 13 Times View My Garage	I am quite surprised that Chrysler took all these years to sue M&M. My first reaction was how could these guys lift the front grill design from Jeep.
	() Thanks

13th August 2008, 23:11	#30
-GT- BHPian Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Chennai / Dubai Posts: 171 Thanked: 3 Times	In my knowledge, Jeep always had 7 vertical slats in the front grille. In fact, when Scorpio was introduced, the first thing that came to my mind was the 7 slat grille that Scorpio used - and the "design inspiration" that they could have got from the Jeeps. But Chrysler going after them for that is simply stupid. Chrysler's Jeeps are of a different pedigree when compared to a Scorpio (a mish mash of Indian design, with certain 'jeepish inspirations' and a Renault engine (I don't have any knowledge of Renault having ever powered (leave alone produced) a 4x4.
	() Thanks