[suman]

Originally Posted by joslicx

"If you want to own a car you should be prepared to pay up to run it! If you cant dont buy a car/scooter/bike/whatever... use public transport or bicycyle."

I heartily agree with this - if you buy a petrol car, be prepared to pay for the cost of running it. Similarly for two wheelers. And diesel cars.

And don't crib simply because two wheelers don't come with a diesel option - think of the mileage advantage that two wheelers enjoy

[Gregory]

Why now ? When Oil Touched 150$ petrol prices went up Rupee 7-/ now that prices are back to somewhat sane levels why isnt the petrol price going down to what they were??

[s0uljah]

Originally Posted by DocG

Diesel is also more polluting

More polluting than ?

[harry10]

Originally Posted by joslicx

"If you want to own a car you should be prepared to pay up to run it! If you cant dont buy a car/scooter/bike/whatever... use public transport or bicycyle." This is what the govt should tell all consumers of oil! Its not like govt is sitting on a kuber ka khazana (endless pot of money) and they can keep absorbing losses forever.

What you are missing is that Diesel vehicles be it Skoda's or Mercs are expensive then their counterparts.
So in real life scenario does not makes much diff to pocket if you buy a petrol vehicle and pay more for petrol as petrol vehicle is also cheaper than the diesel one.
In the end they will come almost same priced for you but as consumers we just believe because diesel is cheaper lets buy a diesel car.
I must add diesel vehicle is actually beneficial for people who have running of somewhere around 100-200 km a day. Just my opinion

@ Greg - Because as per Gov Oil companies are still losing money so no reduction in prices. Guess they will always lose money AS PER GOV and no reduction will be done ever no matter how much price of Crude comes down!

[joslicx]

Originally Posted by harry10

What you are missing is that Diesel vehicles be it Skoda's or Mercs are expensive then their counterparts.
So in real life scenario does not makes much diff to pocket if you buy a petrol vehicle and pay more for petrol as petrol vehicle is also cheaper than the diesel one.
In the end they will come almost same priced for you but as consumers we just believe because diesel is cheaper lets buy a diesel car.
I must add diesel vehicle is actually beneficial for people who have running of somewhere around 100-200 km a day. Just my opinion

@ Greg - Because as per Gov Oil companies are still losing money so no reduction in prices. Guess they will always lose money AS PER GOV and no reduction will be done ever no matter how much price of Crude comes down!

You are right that petrol vehicles are chaper than their diesel equivalents. But thats not government's problem!!! Why should they bother themselves with whether people are buying cheaper or expensive cars. The discussion here is about fuel prices, not car prices. The question is why should diesel that is used by cars be cheaper (or subsidised?)

[alpha1]

Harry Dude, do we even have diesel Maruti 800 or Alto?

Our point is that on the lower price end - check what is the ratio of diesel to petrol users (and usage also).
And on the higher price end do the same.

Except Indica, all others in budget/economy models are petrol.
Is that the same in cars above and around 10 Lacs?

[harry10]

Originally Posted by joslicx

You are right that petrol vehicles are chaper than their diesel equivalents. But thats not government's problem!!! Why should they bother themselves with whether people are buying cheaper or expensive cars. The discussion here is about fuel prices, not car prices. The question is why should diesel that is used by cars be cheaper (or subsidised?)

I do agree the discussion is about fuel price and not the car price so in that respect itself why people have got issues if Diesel has subsidies? Who is stopping anyone to buy a diesel car than a petrol?

Originally Posted by alpha1

Harry Dude, do we even have diesel Maruti 800 or Alto?

Our point is that on the lower price end - check what is the ratio of diesel to petrol users (and usage also).
And on the higher price end do the same.

Except Indica, all others in budget/economy models are petrol.
Is that the same in cars above and around 10 Lacs?

I do agree with your point to some extent. IMO both the diesel cars and petrol cars should be of same prices and then sell diesel and petrol at same rate and let the consumer which car he wants to buy then.(Most will buy petrol car).
Anyways this rule will be really hard to implement honsetly!

[supremeBaleno]

Like many others already mentioned, the dual pricing thing is just going to lead to a big scam, corruption, black marketing etc. Only solution is to make fuel prices (petrol, diesel, lpg etc) market linked, letting the market arrive at the right price.

But this would lead to inflation and prices of each & everything would increase and whichever party in power takes this decision (if at all they do, chances for which are remote), they can be assured of being in the opposition for a long time. So, no one will bell the cat.

There are atleast 2 dimensions to this issue :
1) If a product costs Rs.x to produce, selling it at lower than that, is bad economics and will surely backfire one day.

2) If we get something cheap or at less than what it would otherwise cost, we do not respect it. Like someone mentioned about electricity charges. Next time you see a car idling for no obvious reason, check out the fuel used and 8 of 10 times, I can assure you that it would be diesel. I see this in our office complex daily - mostly Swift-D, Verna-D, Fiesta-D etc - be it driver or owner. A guy running petrol would switch off as soon as he is parked, while for the diesel guys, it is an afterthought. There is a link in this to the fact that he gets the fuel for close to 20bucks lesser per litre than petrol.

P.S. : Not implying that all diesel users waste fuel. But a trend I noticed.

[Glass]

Originally Posted by joslicx

It simply doesnt make sense to see car owners who are rich enough (rich enf to afford the likes of Mercs and Skodas) simply enjoying cheaper fuel at the expense of govt (which means at the expense of tax payers like me and you as govt makes all its money from us only)

No, I am a poor car owner running a diesel because I am poor to run a petrol. I am still repaying my loan.

Originally Posted by joslicx

If you want to own a car you should be prepared to pay up to run it! If you cant dont buy a car/scooter/bike/whatever... use public transport or bicycyle.

Show me a usable public transport and I will cover my car forever at home.

Originally Posted by joslicx

This is what the govt should tell all consumers of oil! Its not like govt is sitting on a kuber ka khazana (endless pot of money) and they can keep absorbing losses forever.

Actually I think Govt. believes I have a kuber ka khazana.
They tax me a profession tax, then an income tax, then a surcharge, then an educational cess on what I earn.
Then they charge me excise on my car, sales tax, other taxes, registration, life tax etc. I pay service tax even on a dent I get repaired.
Then I pay the taxes and duties on the fuel I buy...
That makes me really poor. Why not end all these taxes and then sell the fuel at international market rates?

[harry10]

@ Glass - Don't worry Gov will rip off your clothes also very soon with the introduction of few more taxes

[nitinralli]

Originally Posted by Glass

No, I am a poor car owner running a diesel because I am poor to run a petrol. I am still repaying my loan.


Show me a usable public transport and I will cover my car forever at home.

Actually I think Govt. believes I have a kuber ka khazana.
They tax me a profession tax, then an income tax, then a surcharge, then an educational cess on what I earn.
Then they charge me excise on my car, sales tax, other taxes, registration, life tax etc. I pay service tax even on a dent I get repaired.
Then I pay the taxes and duties on the fuel I buy...
That makes me really poor. Why not end all these taxes and then sell the fuel at international market rates?

I totally agree with what all you said. Also we do pay premium for the diesal cars compared to there petrol ones....so why pay extra for the fuel.

[joslicx]

Originally Posted by Glass

No, I am a poor car owner running a diesel because I am poor to run a petrol. I am still repaying my loan.


Show me a usable public transport and I will cover my car forever at home.

Actually I think Govt. believes I have a kuber ka khazana.
They tax me a profession tax, then an income tax, then a surcharge, then an educational cess on what I earn.
Then they charge me excise on my car, sales tax, other taxes, registration, life tax etc. I pay service tax even on a dent I get repaired.
Then I pay the taxes and duties on the fuel I buy...
That makes me really poor. Why not end all these taxes and then sell the fuel at international market rates?

Seriously so many problems!!! Why dont you leave India then No more sales tax, other tax, reg tax, income tax, pro tax etc heheh

[joslicx]

Originally Posted by harry10

I do agree the discussion is about fuel price and not the car price so in that respect itself why people have got issues if Diesel has subsidies? Who is stopping anyone to buy a diesel car than a petrol?



I do agree with your point to some extent. IMO both the diesel cars and petrol cars should be of same prices and then sell diesel and petrol at same rate and let the consumer which car he wants to buy then.(Most will buy petrol car).
Anyways this rule will be really hard to implement honsetly!

See prices of cars are determined by car manufacturers and not govt. what you can say is let both petrol and diesel cars have same registration tax. govt cannot have any other control on pricing. in the end there is a lot of difference in engines (technology etc) so there will be some price difference. I believe right now diesels attract more reg. tax as diesels are seen as more polluting (might or might not be true) and this is a govt way of trying to discourage people to go for diesels. both diesels and petrols have some adv and some disadv. in the end its for end user to decide what he/she wants.
The only problem right now is that people go for diesels (9/10 people) coz it runs on cheaper fuel (cheaper than petrol as it is heavily subsidised). Also in some cases (read most luxury cars) only the diesel is available now!!! On the other hand true mass vehicles (most small cars and 2-wheelers) run on the more expansive fuel. Thats the irony of the situation!!!

[Glass]

Originally Posted by joslicx

Seriously so many problems!!! Why dont you leave India then No more sales tax, other tax, reg tax, income tax, pro tax etc heheh

Well, there are user charges at air ports. And even when I manage to get a Re. 1 air ticket to get abroad, there are major taxes that are making flying unaffordable.
cheers:

[opendro]

Being a diesel engine fan, I wish diesel was not subsidized. If diesel is not subsized, then the cost of diesel cars could be cheaper or same as the petrol cars as in some countries. That would have made my purchase of diesel car more meaningful as I don't have to "spend more money to recover extra cost in car" as many people suggest.

But it is not going to happen as people have pointed out here.