[ritz830]

I am not an experienced person in this subject, but I thing this thread will bring out our collective experience.

I have listed down some basic qualities of a nicely engineered and affordable commuter car. If you know any other basic quality, then do reply and append it to the list.

My priority.

- Good driving posture available to all drivers irrespective of their height. i.e Good H-point offering Visibility, Lumber support, options for Tilt steering, height adjustable seat belts.
- Offers adequate safety to passengers at a 40kmph crash. i.e Safety beams, crumple zones and uniform build quality, options for ABS, airbags, ESC
- Offers the right turning radius considering the length and width of the car. This prevents accidents and blind spots.
For instance, a tight turning radius in a small car offers Zip drive capability. But a tight turning radius in a relatively lengtheir car will make it difficult to turn at tight spots.
- Stable ride quality even at the top speed prescribed by the manufacturer. i.e (anti roll, tire width, low centre of gravity, Dragg coeff)
- Good Suspension for both driver and passenger over average bumps. Appropriate Noise damping and Ground clearance.
- Offers adequate leg room and shoulder space primarily for the front passengers, then the rear passengers.
- Decent mileage w.r.t size of car.
- Adequate low rpm torque for city driving.
- Interiors have the rite things at the rite place taking into account the ride position and passenger comfort. i.e Steering mounted remote is good engineering.
- Good boot space, or folding rear seats to provide the extra space
- option for Automatic transmission

[windsurfer]

Should this not be done per segment?

[vikram_d]

Originally Posted by windsurfer

Should this not be done per segment?

This has to be done segment wise as you cannot compare a 2 lakh M800 with a 30 lakh Merc.

[ritz830]

Originally Posted by windsurfer

Should this not be done per segment?

Not necessary because Engineering is a generic term and it applies to all segments of cars offered under a specific brand name. Also, one can validate his choice by explaining more in his post.

Secondly, the list will be huge if we consider every car.

[ritz830]

Originally Posted by vikram_d

This has to be done segment wise as you cannot compare a 2 lakh M800 with a 30 lakh Merc.

No, I dint put the Mercedes and BMW here.

I have listed all the cars offered by a manufacturer. Since, most car manufacturers competes with the other in all segments, one could make his comparison easily

For example,
Maruti has SX4 and Hyundai has Verna and Honda has the City
Maruti has the Alto and Hyundai has the Santro.

So, it all matters about the Engineering involved.

[ritz830]

Moreover, you can explain your choice. Say you like the Toyota Innova, You can specify that you have good driving comfort. Or if you chose the A-star, again you can specify that it has good driving comfort and better interior than cars in other segments.

I believe doing this way will make much better meaning to Engineering.

[vikram_d]

Originally Posted by ritz830

Not necessary because Engineering is a generic term and it applies to all segments of cars offered under a specific brand name. Also, one can validate his choice by explaining more in his post.

Secondly, the list will be huge if we consider every car.

Originally Posted by ritz830

No, I dint put the Mercedes and BMW here.

I have listed all the cars offered by a manufacturer. Since, most car manufacturers competes with the other in all segments, one could make his comparison easily

For example,
Maruti has SX4 and Hyundai has Verna and Honda has the City
Maruti has the Alto and Hyundai has the Santro.

So, it all matters about the Engineering involved.

So do you think the engineering levels on a M800 will be the same as a VW Jetta? Ofcourse they will not. Also going by what you are saying Alto vs. Santro, SX4 vs. Verna vs. City. This is segment wise.

And going by the logic of manufacturer only, even then you can not compare a Suzuki to a VW. Can you?

Also from the points that you mentioned a lot of points are subjective except for safety and turning radius. Even safety to a large extent is subjective. My definition of safety can be different from yours.

[theMAG]

This thread has merit, although it would be optimal if it is done segment-wise.

Everything comes down to design philosophies:

• Generally, mainstream European cars are recognized as being the best engineered
• Japanese cars are designed with a specific shelf life.
• American cars, until some time ago, were also over-engineered; with some production engines designed to handle 100% more stress than regular tune - but that has now changed.
• Korean cars(now) share similar design philosophies as Japanese cars.
• Indian cars are generally under-engineered

[snaronikar]

U would have better classified/compared based on car manufacturer wise like Suzuki/Toyota/Honda/GM/Ford/VW etc etc.

[ritz830]

Originally Posted by vikram_d

So do you think the engineering levels on a M800 will be the same as a VW Jetta? Ofcourse they will not. Also going by what you are saying Alto vs. Santro, SX4 vs. Verna vs. City. This is segment wise.

If you chose VW jetta against Maruti (800/SX4 or anything) then that means the VW has better engineering. The factors which I have mentioned are BASIC factors which all cars in all segments share.

Maruti has its 800/swift/SX4. Hyunda has its santro/i10/getz. So Obviously one can compare Maruti vs Hyundai in a respective manner.

Originally Posted by vikram_d

And going by the logic of manufacturer only, even then you can not compare a Suzuki to a VW. Can you?

Yes I can. VW is superior than Suzuki as per me because all VW cars are superior in qualities like "Stability, Handling, Interiors, Comfort". Also Suzuki Grande Vitara/SX4 which is offered as the top of the line does not provide good driving comfort as the VW jetta.
This proves that the experience of Suzuki is lesser than VW.

Originally Posted by vikram_d

Also from the points that you mentioned a lot of points are subjective except for safety and turning radius. Even safety to a large extent is subjective. My definition of safety can be different from yours.

Not necessarly. If the car has Safety beams in pillars, crumple zones, uniform built quality, then it means the car is safer. All cars share this factor.

Also, Driving comfort & Interiors of A-star is far more superior than Tata Indigo, Tata inica vista, Logan. All are from different segment.

Basically all cars of a specific manufacturer should have good engineering in them. If you say Maruti- Suzuki has only the Swift and A-star as good engineered products, then that shows the experience of Maruti-suzuki's engineers. Whereas the Chevrolet/Toyota deliver a well engineered product right from their starting segment.

[ritz830]

Originally Posted by snaronikar

U would have better classified/compared based on car manufacturer wise like Suzuki/Toyota/Honda/GM/Ford/VW etc etc.

It all boils down to the best car which a manufacturer can offer in INDIA. If ford is good in engineering, but if it releases sub standard cars in India. Then I wont vote for it.

I detailed on the product lines which are only available in India because people can relate much better in this way and dont get lost.

Also, exposing the product line that are only available in India does not do any harm. If you got only one product line for a manufacturer, and if it has those basic qualities in it. Then it proves the quality of the Manufacturer.

[ritz830]

Originally Posted by theMAG

This thread has merit, although it would be optimal if it is done segment-wise.

Everything comes down to design philosophies:

• Generally, mainstream European cars are recognized as being the best engineered
• Japanese cars are designed with a specific shelf life.
• American cars, until some time ago, were also over-engineered; with some production engines designed to handle 100% more stress than regular tune - but that has now changed.
• Korean cars(now) share similar design philosophies as Japanese cars.
• Indian cars are generally under-engineered

Not true. At this point of time in Indian market lets us compare European cars with American cars. I can prove to you that some European cars are worse than the latter.

List of cars available in India:
European cars (top of Product line) : Renault Logan, Fiat Palio
American cars : Chevy U-VA/ SRV, Ford fiesta/fusion
Indian cars: Tata Indica Vista, Tata safari, Mahindra Scorpio Mhawk

So you would know from your experience that American cars that are available in India are much better and newer cars than the European cars offered in India.

Even the Hindustan Ambassador has some specific capabilities which no other car offers. i.e its the best suited car for Indian suburban roads considering its leaf spring suspension. Also the passengers are offered a very comfortable luxurious ride

[finneyp]

The poll choices are flawed, can we just have the Brand names like: GM, Toyota, Honda, Fiat etc.

[Speeding@160mph]

last time i checked, Germany & the Czech Republic were also part of EUROPE. Why have SKODA & VW not been taken into consideration in your comment below? I have lived in America, India & Europe; driven each areas cars in their respective markets and without a doubt consider european cars to be of the highest quality in their respective segments. The Japanese no-doubt are the only ones who come close if not better their european counterparts in respect to engineering/quality/life/value of a car. As regards to your comment about the Ambassador, the ONLY reason HM & Maruti survived so far is because of India's closed economy & protective regulations for the first 40 years of Independance...NOTHING ELSE!

Originally Posted by ritz830

Not true. At this point of time in Indian market lets us compare European cars with American cars. I can prove to you that some European cars are worse than the latter.

List of cars available in India:
European cars (top of Product line) : Renault Logan, Fiat Palio
American cars : Chevy U-VA/ SRV, Ford fiesta/fusion
Indian cars: Tata Indica Vista, Tata safari, Mahindra Scorpio Mhawk

So you would know from your experience that American cars that are available in India are much better and newer cars than the European cars offered in India.

Even the Hindustan Ambassador has some specific capabilities which no other car offers. i.e its the best suited car for Indian suburban roads considering its leaf spring suspension.

[ritz830]

Now that most of the doubts are cleared about the presentation of the Poll, I am re-posting the thread for convenience. New-comers, please do read through the previous posts for clarification of your doubts, if any.

"Which is the BEST engineered car offered in INDIA"

Moderator. If you can kindly rename the thread and add the words "offered in India", that would be great and solve most of the confusion. Thanks

Originally Posted by ritz830

I am not an experienced person in this subject, but I thing this thread will bring out our collective experience.

I have listed down some basic qualities of a nicely engineered and affordable commuter car. If you know any other basic quality, then do reply and append it to the list.

My priority.

- Good driving posture available to all drivers irrespective of their height. i.e Good H-point offering Visibility, Lumber support, options for Tilt steering, height adjustable seat belts.
- Offers adequate safety to passengers at a 40kmph crash. i.e Safety beams, crumple zones and uniform build quality, options for ABS, airbags, ESC
- Offers the right turning radius considering the length and width of the car. This prevents accidents and blind spots.
For instance, a tight turning radius in a small car offers Zip drive capability. But a tight turning radius in a relatively lengtheir car will make it difficult to turn at tight spots.
- Stable ride quality even at the top speed prescribed by the manufacturer. i.e (anti roll, tire width, low centre of gravity, Dragg coeff)
- Good Suspension for both driver and passenger over average bumps. Appropriate Noise damping and Ground clearance.
- Offers adequate leg room and shoulder space primarily for the front passengers, then the rear passengers.
- Decent mileage w.r.t size of car.
- Adequate low rpm torque for city driving.
- Interiors have the rite things at the rite place taking into account the ride position and passenger comfort. i.e Steering mounted remote is good engineering.
- Good boot space, or folding rear seats to provide the extra space
- option for Automatic transmission