The Big Question- Is The Indian Car Market The Toughest One To Crack On Earth?

sidindica · 15th May 2009, 17:51

one more point forgot to add:

persons working in car dealerships dealing in expensive cars costing in crores had never treated me as a car enthusiast should be.

I have a big collection of catalogues, a posted elsewhere but getting them is not easy as it sounds. Sometimes you have to fight tooth and nail, to get those, and people working in those showrooms make stupid faces while giving it and think badly in the minds.

They only bow in front of rich people who are interested in buying cars and have absolutely ZERO respect for us common people, just because we are loafers who do aimless loitering. Case- the old Porsche incident which I had to encounter but thankfully solved.

Why only in our country this thing happens? whether the person is a crorepati or an aam aadmi, why cannot all of us be treated as equals?
When will these people learn that ordinary car enthusiasts make up a brand and not really those people who buy it?

This applies for every damn dealership-whether handling German cars or British cars.

In my Europe trip last year, I never had to encounter such harrowing experiance and all showrooms I visited, treated me with the same equal respect, even knowing that I am not a prospective buyer. Whether it was a suzuki showroom or a bentley/ lamborghini outlet or rolls-royce aston martin outlet, I was treated with equal respect.

Not so in our country. Its time that these persons should wake up ans stop thinking in Indian perspective.

Gagan.js · 15th May 2009, 20:00

Sid, these persons working in the dealership can't afford the car either, so its quite stupid when they make faces at us.
People around the world think India has a lot of "warmth" and hospitality is the motto here, but these guys don't make it so.

One thing I don't get is why they make faces when a bunch of college kids walk into the showroom.
WE are the ones who are going to talk about your freakin car, aka advertising it so treat us well, plus WE are the ones who recommend the car to mom/dad buying it.

I've seen salesmen form a huddle and gossip among themselves while a young couple supposedly buying their first car are waiting by the counter, now where do these guys get their training?

.anshuman · 26th May 2010, 18:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by sidindica

people say it is embarassing for us to go in a big car with a tilted H rather than a straight H or the car with a fiat badge rather than go with a toyota/ honda badge.

it is not a shame about what brand of cars do you purchase.It is about whether are you really enjoying the car as a whole or not.

take a proper test drive and decide that what best value you can get out of your vehicle rather than just blind-foldedly going for "brand" factor for the sake of avoiding "embarrasement".

There are lots of options out there than restricting ourselves to just a few brands.

Question of safety:

We cry that manufacturers are not providing us with ABS/ airbags.

the big question is- HOW many of us really do end up purchasing up cars with safety options?

all we care is about-price, price, discount, discount, resale value etc.. and not the product that you enjoy.

No salespersons are even aware of the functions of ABS/ airbags in mass market cars, all they care is maximum sale at the cost of safety. It is for this reason that old outdated models like:

another big question-poor sales staff at all dealerships whether it is maruti or audi/bmw/merc many persons, I do not know how the hell are they recruited and without even basic knowledge of the product, working in the showrooms and misleading customers.

resale value- why do we ask this question when an average person drives the car for 5 years? This means that he is buying the car just for formality and not to enjoy the product.

I Agree with most of the part. I have seen people who love a specific car but do not buy it because the other car has better resale value, I don't understand why people are ready to live with a car they don't just for the sake of better after sales support and resale.

I have seen few cases where the person has never ever checked the FE or does not even know how to check it say Meri Car to 25 ki mileage deti hai(In this case ANHC in local delhi traffic).

Last week my cousin went to TD a Figo, the sales man said 'Punto comes with a tractor engine'.

clevermax · 26th May 2010, 18:24

Yes. People in India are the toughest customers to sell a good car to.

They

- compromise safety for buying it cheaper.
- buy feature less cars for getting better A.S.S. and peace of mind
- are ready to compromise on anything for Fuel efficiency a.k.a. "Average"

- consider sedans as a status symbol.
- are still to start seeking vehicle types which suits their life style
- are mostly newbie and incompetent drivers and they don't even care about drive-ablility and handling characteristics of a car at all.
- still think that a diesel engine is associated with lots of maintenance costs
- settle with certain specific cars for better resale value.
- get fooled by the sales persons very easily.
- have a tendency to follow the herd.
- think that the total ownership experience is something which should only hover around A.S.S.
- don't care if the car is bad looking or even worse.

There may be more attributes. Because of all these and because certain car makers take advantage of this, some crappy cars get sold like hot cakes and some good cars are not even talked about.

phamilyman · 27th May 2010, 04:58

Actually, i'd like to add - they like to think that a Multijet engine is the solution to all of life's problems ... well almost. If I had a dime for every time I heard of someone doing 1000-1200km/month buying a diesel for the "lower running cost", I'd be a millionaire!

JustCause · 27th May 2010, 11:04

[quote=sidindica;1305580]one more point forgot to add:

persons working in car dealerships dealing in expensive cars costing in crores had never treated me as a car enthusiast should be.

+1 From me. Leave alone dealerships, even basic accessories shops treat people with 'dicky' waali car & people with hatchbacks differently. Valets think you are a fool if you decide to park your hatchback on your own & these same people are found carelessly parking Hondas & Skodas and, more often than not, end up gashing & denting some unsuspecting person's precious sedan.

I have a big collection of catalogues, a posted elsewhere but getting them is not easy as it sounds. Sometimes you have to fight tooth and nail, to get those, and people working in those showrooms make stupid faces while giving it and think badly in the minds.

They won't even acknowledge your presence if they think you're a 'time waster', they didn't even offer water to me, but served cold drinks to 'valued customers' leave alone them allowing me to take a brochure.

They only bow in front of rich people who are interested in buying cars and have absolutely ZERO respect for us common people, just because we are loafers who do aimless loitering. Case- the old Porsche incident which I had to encounter but thankfully solved.

Most of these supposedly rich people give their 3Series to their drivers to enjoy, Valets to generate new bodywork expenditure & finally the 2% of the time the owners take the wheel, someone is killed & the car is found in a mangled heap.

Why only in our country this thing happens? whether the person is a crorepati or an aam aadmi, why cannot all of us be treated as equals?
When will these people learn that ordinary car enthusiasts make up a brand and not really those people who buy it?

This is sadly because of the huge gap between the rich & the poor in our country. I agree with you on the point that cars gain popularity only by enthusiasts and not by some small time crooked businessman/mobster/ Politico.

This applies for every damn dealership-whether handling German cars or British cars.

My replies in bold do not signify forced assertion.

rohanjf · 27th May 2010, 12:00

Here is something that I would like to add to Sid's point about salespersons in luxury car showrooms treating their visitors. I am in Johannesburg right now and there is a BMW/Aston Martin/Rolls Royce/Mini/Ducati showroom right next to my hotel. Last Saturday, I walked into the showroom and I was greeted with a smile by the sales guy. Looking at me, anyone can tell that I can't afford to buy even a spare wheel for some of those cars. They even allowed me to stand next to Phantom and DB9 and get photographs! Will it ever happen in India?

aargee · 27th May 2010, 12:24

Quote:

Why only in our country this thing happens? whether the person is a crorepati or an aam aadmi, why cannot all of us be treated as equals?

That is because, everyone of us fail to respect others. This is not only in showrooms but can be seen on road everyday; roadrage being one typical example. When respect for human value increases, then the change can be felt all over no matter it is car showroom or book store. I don't know about Europe, in US, anyone is treated with respect no matter for what reason he has visited the store, be it the post man or pizza delivery boy or the customer.

Short term vision - How much commission can I earn if I'm able to sell this to him?
Long term vision - How can I convert this pizza guy into my customer?

Quote:

When will these people learn that ordinary car enthusiasts make up a brand and not really those people who buy it?

This may happen only when there's a saturation in the market.

Speeding@160mph · 27th May 2010, 12:52

JUSTCAUSE - 'Most of these supposedly rich people give their 3Series to their drivers to enjoy, Valets to generate new bodywork expenditure & finally the 2% of the time the owners take the wheel, someone is killed & the car is found in a mangled heap.'

- This is by far the stupidest thing I have read on the forum. You have made the same judgment against 'supposedly rich' people that you complain luxury car showroom attendants make about you! What's the difference then?

Too much of an issue is being made about 'rich/poor', big/small car, can afford/not afford - it doesn't happen everywhere in India and even though it is wrong - it will take time to change.

However, the single reason why you will never have these issues overseas is their Racial Discrimination laws! Those governments and companies care very much about their image and cannot have brown people complaining that they weren't allowed to take pictures. Believe me - there is plenty of racism overseas - i have experienced it way too many times to care about them letting us in their showrooms and take pictures with their fancy cars to justify the sheer lack of intelligence they sometimes display.

Whereas in India - everybody is brown! and the only thing separating them is their wallet. Socio-economic profiling is very common and not going away anytime soon. The people working at a RR/Porsche/Lambo showroom take pride in having worked their way up from a Honda/VW/Benz showroom to where they are! hence the unjustified feeling of superiority over enthusiasts! They are dumb people who hurt the image of the brand but I honestly doubt this will change anytime soon.

Sid's ideology is what I truly believe conveys the feelings of so many here - Its not the handful who own the car but the countless who desire it that make up the brand!

Coming back to the point - i do not know if India is the toughest market - China/Brazil/Russia are very similar to us in terms of economic development and penetration of international brands. The Chinese mindset is also quite comparable to ours - Value value Value (not cheap cheap cheap) - it would be a tough call since most of us have been exposed to a handful of markets (India/US/UK/Europe) and until we get some perspective from the other BRIC countries - it will all be based on presumption and not add any quality input.

rajushank84 · 27th May 2010, 12:58

I learnt one thing with car dealers: Go alone or with any guy, will not get a test drive. Go with wife, will get test drive for sure!

clevermax · 27th May 2010, 13:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by rajushank84

I learnt one thing with car dealers: Go alone or with any guy, will not get a test drive. Go with wife, will get test drive for sure!

Thanks, point noted, will be trying it out soon

JustCause · 27th May 2010, 13:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Speeding@160mph

- This is by far the stupidest thing I have read on the forum. You have made the same judgment against 'supposedly rich' people that you complain luxury car showroom attendants make about you! What's the difference then?

find my reply below

1.)Too much of an issue is being made about 'rich/poor', big/small car, can afford/not afford - it doesn't happen everywhere in India and even though it is wrong - it will take time to change.

2.)Whereas in India - everybody is brown! and the only thing separating them is their wallet. Socio-economic profiling is very common and not going away anytime soon.

??? two self contradicting statements

Chill yaar, that's why I mentioned that I'm not shouting about by writing in bold, it is that not all of the Indian car enthusiasts have the budget for their dream car & if only wallet/attire is the means of deciding whether a customer is valuable or not, it is mistake on the part of dealership owner to start profiling customers and I pointed out the result of such a profile.According to me, the only criterion for profiling a customer must be if he holds a valid driving licence or not & what he desires in a car, budget etc.

Salespeople should not be their own self at dealerships, they have to follow a code of conduct. Aren't there any simpletons who might want an expensive car?

"Whereas in India - everybody is brown! and the only thing separating them is their wallet. Socio-economic profiling is very common and not going away anytime soon. The people working at a RR/Porsche/Lambo showroom take pride in having worked their way up from a Honda/VW/Benz showroom to where they are! hence the unjustified feeling of superiority over enthusiasts! They are dumb people who hurt the image of the brand but I honestly doubt this will change anytime soon."

You're veering off topic here, dealerships abroad don't follow this malpractice because the brand influence is high there and you can compare it to Maruti's influence in India. The dealership problems mentioned in this thread are very rare in Maruti showrooms, atleast the ones in Delhi.

In India, salespersons take pride in having worked their way up from a small Maruti/TATA dealership to a big BMW/AUDI one and this pride transpires to arrogance when dealing with buyers like us.

KiloAlpha · 27th May 2010, 13:59

Talking about test drives, having bought a Figo recently ...
I walked into the Ford dealership unannounced wearing tatty Jeans, a half-sleeved shirt I bought for Rs200, riding a battered 1999 KiHo with matching helmet, and a 2-day stubble. I test drove the Figo within 15 minutes.

Speeding@160mph · 27th May 2010, 15:53

@Justcase - I just copied and pasted your message which was already in bold.

The 2 statements you mention - not contradictory - simply facts. Socio-Economic profiling is wrong, but it is a reality in India. I do not support it but I have come to terms with it.

There will be instances of neglect/disregard on car salespeople's part overseas as well - its just you don't know about it. So you think its exclusive to India - its not.

The code of conduct is a good idea but the people here are not educated enough or may not care enough. Until such practice comes into play, we will need to deal with the arrogance of petty minded men who can not comprehend the emotions of being a car enthusiast.

jesal · 27th May 2010, 16:05

indian car market is as BAD as it gets. india claims to be a real super power country where it stands no chance. the other smaller have better markets i am not sure about their laws but the fact remains that most of the world is way ahead of india. india is as good as pakistan, vietnam, and similar ones. india is basically a lot of money but poor brains. lots of courrupt people are never gonna let india go up

15th May 2009, 17:51	#16
sidindica Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Delhi Posts: 4,892 Thanked: 8,106 Times	one more point forgot to add: persons working in car dealerships dealing in expensive cars costing in crores had never treated me as a car enthusiast should be. I have a big collection of catalogues, a posted elsewhere but getting them is not easy as it sounds. Sometimes you have to fight tooth and nail, to get those, and people working in those showrooms make stupid faces while giving it and think badly in the minds. They only bow in front of rich people who are interested in buying cars and have absolutely ZERO respect for us common people, just because we are loafers who do aimless loitering. Case- the old Porsche incident which I had to encounter but thankfully solved. Why only in our country this thing happens? whether the person is a crorepati or an aam aadmi, why cannot all of us be treated as equals? When will these people learn that ordinary car enthusiasts make up a brand and not really those people who buy it? This applies for every damn dealership-whether handling German cars or British cars. In my Europe trip last year, I never had to encounter such harrowing experiance and all showrooms I visited, treated me with the same equal respect, even knowing that I am not a prospective buyer. Whether it was a suzuki showroom or a bentley/ lamborghini outlet or rolls-royce aston martin outlet, I was treated with equal respect. Not so in our country. Its time that these persons should wake up ans stop thinking in Indian perspective.
	() Thanks

15th May 2009, 20:00	#17
Gagan.js BHPian Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Mumbai Posts: 227 Thanked: Once	Sid, these persons working in the dealership can't afford the car either, so its quite stupid when they make faces at us. People around the world think India has a lot of "warmth" and hospitality is the motto here, but these guys don't make it so. One thing I don't get is why they make faces when a bunch of college kids walk into the showroom. WE are the ones who are going to talk about your freakin car, aka advertising it so treat us well, plus WE are the ones who recommend the car to mom/dad buying it. I've seen salesmen form a huddle and gossip among themselves while a young couple supposedly buying their first car are waiting by the counter, now where do these guys get their training?
	() Thanks

26th May 2010, 18:24	#19
clevermax Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Tvm/Amsterdam Posts: 2,086 Thanked: 2,640 Times View My Garage	Yes. People in India are the toughest customers to sell a good car to. They - compromise safety for buying it cheaper. - buy feature less cars for getting better A.S.S. and peace of mind - are ready to compromise on anything for Fuel efficiency a.k.a. "Average" - consider sedans as a status symbol. - are still to start seeking vehicle types which suits their life style - are mostly newbie and incompetent drivers and they don't even care about drive-ablility and handling characteristics of a car at all. - still think that a diesel engine is associated with lots of maintenance costs - settle with certain specific cars for better resale value. - get fooled by the sales persons very easily. - have a tendency to follow the herd. - think that the total ownership experience is something which should only hover around A.S.S. - don't care if the car is bad looking or even worse. There may be more attributes. Because of all these and because certain car makers take advantage of this, some crappy cars get sold like hot cakes and some good cars are not even talked about. Last edited by clevermax : 26th May 2010 at 18:33.
	() Thanks

27th May 2010, 04:58	#20
phamilyman Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Gurgaon Posts: 5,968 Thanked: 4,642 Times	Actually, i'd like to add - they like to think that a Multijet engine is the solution to all of life's problems ... well almost. If I had a dime for every time I heard of someone doing 1000-1200km/month buying a diesel for the "lower running cost", I'd be a millionaire!
	() Thanks

27th May 2010, 11:04	#21
JustCause BHPian Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Currently, New Delhi Posts: 422 Thanked: 100 Times View My Garage	[quote=sidindica;1305580]one more point forgot to add: persons working in car dealerships dealing in expensive cars costing in crores had never treated me as a car enthusiast should be. +1 From me. Leave alone dealerships, even basic accessories shops treat people with 'dicky' waali car & people with hatchbacks differently. Valets think you are a fool if you decide to park your hatchback on your own & these same people are found carelessly parking Hondas & Skodas and, more often than not, end up gashing & denting some unsuspecting person's precious sedan. I have a big collection of catalogues, a posted elsewhere but getting them is not easy as it sounds. Sometimes you have to fight tooth and nail, to get those, and people working in those showrooms make stupid faces while giving it and think badly in the minds. They won't even acknowledge your presence if they think you're a 'time waster', they didn't even offer water to me, but served cold drinks to 'valued customers' leave alone them allowing me to take a brochure. They only bow in front of rich people who are interested in buying cars and have absolutely ZERO respect for us common people, just because we are loafers who do aimless loitering. Case- the old Porsche incident which I had to encounter but thankfully solved. Most of these supposedly rich people give their 3Series to their drivers to enjoy, Valets to generate new bodywork expenditure & finally the 2% of the time the owners take the wheel, someone is killed & the car is found in a mangled heap. Why only in our country this thing happens? whether the person is a crorepati or an aam aadmi, why cannot all of us be treated as equals? When will these people learn that ordinary car enthusiasts make up a brand and not really those people who buy it? This is sadly because of the huge gap between the rich & the poor in our country. I agree with you on the point that cars gain popularity only by enthusiasts and not by some small time crooked businessman/mobster/ Politico. This applies for every damn dealership-whether handling German cars or British cars. My replies in bold do not signify forced assertion.
	() Thanks

27th May 2010, 12:00	#22
rohanjf Senior - BHPian Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Adelaide Posts: 1,193 Thanked: 706 Times	Here is something that I would like to add to Sid's point about salespersons in luxury car showrooms treating their visitors. I am in Johannesburg right now and there is a BMW/Aston Martin/Rolls Royce/Mini/Ducati showroom right next to my hotel. Last Saturday, I walked into the showroom and I was greeted with a smile by the sales guy. Looking at me, anyone can tell that I can't afford to buy even a spare wheel for some of those cars. They even allowed me to stand next to Phantom and DB9 and get photographs! Will it ever happen in India?
	() Thanks

27th May 2010, 12:52	#24
Speeding@160mph BHPian Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Delhi Posts: 185 Thanked: 6 Times	JUSTCAUSE - 'Most of these supposedly rich people give their 3Series to their drivers to enjoy, Valets to generate new bodywork expenditure & finally the 2% of the time the owners take the wheel, someone is killed & the car is found in a mangled heap.' - This is by far the stupidest thing I have read on the forum. You have made the same judgment against 'supposedly rich' people that you complain luxury car showroom attendants make about you! What's the difference then? Too much of an issue is being made about 'rich/poor', big/small car, can afford/not afford - it doesn't happen everywhere in India and even though it is wrong - it will take time to change. However, the single reason why you will never have these issues overseas is their Racial Discrimination laws! Those governments and companies care very much about their image and cannot have brown people complaining that they weren't allowed to take pictures. Believe me - there is plenty of racism overseas - i have experienced it way too many times to care about them letting us in their showrooms and take pictures with their fancy cars to justify the sheer lack of intelligence they sometimes display. Whereas in India - everybody is brown! and the only thing separating them is their wallet. Socio-economic profiling is very common and not going away anytime soon. The people working at a RR/Porsche/Lambo showroom take pride in having worked their way up from a Honda/VW/Benz showroom to where they are! hence the unjustified feeling of superiority over enthusiasts! They are dumb people who hurt the image of the brand but I honestly doubt this will change anytime soon. Sid's ideology is what I truly believe conveys the feelings of so many here - Its not the handful who own the car but the countless who desire it that make up the brand! Coming back to the point - i do not know if India is the toughest market - China/Brazil/Russia are very similar to us in terms of economic development and penetration of international brands. The Chinese mindset is also quite comparable to ours - Value value Value (not cheap cheap cheap) - it would be a tough call since most of us have been exposed to a handful of markets (India/US/UK/Europe) and until we get some perspective from the other BRIC countries - it will all be based on presumption and not add any quality input. Last edited by Speeding@160mph : 27th May 2010 at 12:57.
	() Thanks

27th May 2010, 12:58	#25
rajushank84 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Chennai Posts: 1,116 Thanked: 1,098 Times View My Garage	I learnt one thing with car dealers: Go alone or with any guy, will not get a test drive. Go with wife, will get test drive for sure!
	() Thanks

27th May 2010, 13:59	#28
KiloAlpha Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Cubicle Posts: 1,605 Thanked: 3,002 Times	Talking about test drives, having bought a Figo recently ... I walked into the Ford dealership unannounced wearing tatty Jeans, a half-sleeved shirt I bought for Rs200, riding a battered 1999 KiHo with matching helmet, and a 2-day stubble. I test drove the Figo within 15 minutes.
	() Thanks

27th May 2010, 15:53	#29
Speeding@160mph BHPian Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Delhi Posts: 185 Thanked: 6 Times	@Justcase - I just copied and pasted your message which was already in bold. The 2 statements you mention - not contradictory - simply facts. Socio-Economic profiling is wrong, but it is a reality in India. I do not support it but I have come to terms with it. There will be instances of neglect/disregard on car salespeople's part overseas as well - its just you don't know about it. So you think its exclusive to India - its not. The code of conduct is a good idea but the people here are not educated enough or may not care enough. Until such practice comes into play, we will need to deal with the arrogance of petty minded men who can not comprehend the emotions of being a car enthusiast.
	() Thanks

27th May 2010, 16:05	#30
jesal BANNED Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Mumbai Posts: 2,323 Thanked: 13 Times View My Garage	indian car market is as BAD as it gets. india claims to be a real super power country where it stands no chance. the other smaller have better markets i am not sure about their laws but the fact remains that most of the world is way ahead of india. india is as good as pakistan, vietnam, and similar ones. india is basically a lot of money but poor brains. lots of courrupt people are never gonna let india go up Last edited by Rehaan : 1st June 2010 at 13:12. Reason: Post edited. Please choose your words appropriately for all readers.
	() Thanks