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Old 10th December 2009, 11:12   #61
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It seems unlikely that Volkswagon would be comfortable with utilising the A** of Maruti/Suzuki. They are reluctant to cross utilise their own different brands' networks on the retail front. Dilution of brand equity will be a big concern to VW.

Regarding engines, bigger Suzuki, including Kizahi may get an advantage with VW Diesels. In small cars Fiat diesels should be a better option for them.
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Old 10th December 2009, 11:16   #62
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VW seems to have made a good move, and showing the seriousness for Indian market. After being no.1 in China, the group seems to decided the strategy for India for the same. After all dominating these two countries would make them so rich, they can even have a car plant on the moon.
These types of technology tie-up's, financial adjustment is suppose to be benefit for both, only depends upon to what extent its to be utilised, like sharing each-others advantages and technoligies, experties, etc,etc.
Both has to be aggressive enough to react accordingly, any one partner going into the comfort zone....then TAKE OVER by the other is guarenteed.
Time will only tell, what at the end of the day, we the consumers get out of it.
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Old 10th December 2009, 11:37   #63
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Originally Posted by CoolFire View Post
It seems unlikely that Volkswagon would be comfortable with utilising the A** of Maruti/Suzuki. They are reluctant to cross utilise their own different brands' networks on the retail front. Dilution of brand equity will be a big concern to VW.
I have a different opinion here. VW wants to get into Volume business here in India with introduction of Polo. If they need to do this they have to increase their current dealership for sales and service at least 5 folds if not more and this they have to do it in a matter of few months. I see this a potential risk and may end up the FIAT fate(Pre-Tata scenario) if VW try to do the sales and service of Polo on their own.

Originally Posted by CoolFire View Post
Regarding engines, bigger Suzuki, including Kizahi may get an advantage with VW Diesels. In small cars Fiat diesels should be a better option for them.
Nothing to beat TDI technology of VW Diesel engines. They are sturdy and they have been on all VW cars small or big and have performed with high reliability and efficiency. They have clocked high milage on VW Cars. Some engines have lasted a million miles without any issues. With FIAT being not very cooperative in providing engines to Maruti, Maruti would have little choice than to adopt VW TDI engines.
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Old 10th December 2009, 12:07   #64
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In my opinion. It is a VW bid for supremacy as largest automobile maker. They don't necesarily need to kill suzuki or merge dealership, - they will slowly but surely acquire Suzuki or get controlling stakes to get volume. That's what they did with Porsche they got it in bits and pieces and have controlling stakes.

If you see today automakers there are either too big or too small, Big cos GM, Ford, Toyota are not up for acquisition or are simply too big or troubled to buy. Other smaller cars have their niche but not strategic car makers in gameplan of global auto market take Mazda, Fiat, renault etc. Then you have Suzuki with fairly good market share in Japan, SE and India this is where the moolah is in future. VW has already made deep inroads in China with its JV - you can see Jetta (previous gen) as taxi in streets of Shanghai they are selling Audi and Skoda as well. China has rewarded two car makers VW and GM . Given GM is positioned wll in India if its future product launches are success - then key to Global supremacy is to get to India faster, wider - remember VW blitzkrieg on TOI. so clearly there is a race to supremacy and India is part of that gameplan.

So what can you expect - I don't think a la Fiat-Tata Sales, service route is not preferred you will not see Maruti Suzuki VW boards at one workshop. Rarely a minority stakeholder will want to kill the company it just invested in, and given that Suzuki India ops are cash cow. We can expect synergies - Suzuki sharing its expertise, suppliers and may be even suzuki dealer given chance to open independent shops for VW. In short term I see lot of supplier related synergies, followed by tech sharing, as TOI article suggested that Suzuki need that to build hybrid and electric cars, and in longer term VW getting controlling stake in Suzuki but still not destroying Suzuki brand just another brand to its portfolio.

Also Keep in mind Suzuki doesn't have significant presence outside Japan when you talk about mature market. Japan is facing economics issues for too long to make any headway for Suzuki in terms of volumes.

Totally another view Axis of Evil (German, Japs, Italians might folllow) coming back to take on Allied forces ( Americano) for WW III wars of automobile. ha ha
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Old 10th December 2009, 23:06   #65
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VW India Polo Push Means Fighting for Suzuki Clients (Update1) - Bloomberg.com

Interesting News update. So looks like no one wants to put cards on the table.
Things are going to be real knotty.
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Old 12th December 2009, 08:00   #66
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Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
Wouldn't you have said that about VW and Skoda before they became part of the group.
Still, both VW and Skoda belong essentially to the same market in regional terms. VW and Suzuki on the other hand share practically little. And in the end, either VW would have burnt its fingers, or Suzuki would be gobbled up, well sort of gobbled up. VW will clearly be the dominant partner. How that would translate in India is an open question. I quite agree with aagwoswami when he says...the gear box will be replaced at the price of an Alto. And if Suzuki India suffers, so would the middle class Indian.
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Old 12th December 2009, 08:31   #67
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Originally Posted by navan49 View Post
I am not having any idea in the stakes etc. Now can any one tell whether we the suzuki owners will be benfitted in any manner on this purchase.
No benefits as of now. If VW continues its dominance like the way it is doing now, I dont see positive outcome. VW spares cost are pretty high, long term ownership cost is also high as compared to Japs.

As of now, there will be no change. Watch out for Suzuki dealer and service center network being utilized by VW for its small car Polo. Here the scenario will change IMHO.
Cant comment on how, but change will be there if Polo is sold through Suzuki network.

Originally Posted by pacman2881 View Post
I don't see any benefit for existing Suzuki owners while future owners may benefit if VW engines get into Suzuki's which in itself will take considerable time.
What benefit from engines ? Please elaborate.

VW does not have small capacity petrol motors. Look at Suzuki, they have good small capacity motors and is also expericenced with turbo-charning small capacity motors. They are selling turbo charged 660cc mills in japan for years now. They are not entirely inexperienced.
Given the tax regulations, they have fantastic K series that is much appreciated by media for its performance and FE.

What does VW have here. Polo is likely to come out with 70ps motor. If you are talking about TSI motors, then they need very high quality fuel and I think everyone is aware of what India is when it comes to quantity and quality of fuel delivered through that nozzle. In short, TSI is impractical for our country, specially in the small car market where FE and low cost of ownership ( overall, including long term ownership ) are needed.

Diesels ? Show me a good small capacity diesel from VW.
And do you think that VW will allow Suzuki to put in that 2.0 CRDi mill available in Passat to be installed in GV and sold here ? Or they will give that diesel to Suzuki to be made available in SX4 ? Or you think that they will give Suzuki the 2.0 diesel for Kizashi ?

VW does not specialize in small capacity motors. Its limited to only high capacity motors. VW will eventually end up killing Suzuki and currently, its VW that will benefit the most out of this deal.
IMHO, this move was made keeping in mind India. Its one country where Suzuki has a huge market even today, its valued and respected by middle class and Suzuki has fantastic A.S & S. in place.

Although VW has sales rivalling Toyota, VW brand is not considered to be the most reliable one, particularly in US. Also they are not known to be easy on the pocket for long term ownership costs.

@vivprasad :
Yes, already there are news that VW will raise the stake to 33%. Suzuki will get killed then. VW is already very dominant in all relationships. Except Fiat, Europeans have not succeed in craking the Indian market.

Last edited by aaggoswami : 12th December 2009 at 08:34.
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Old 16th December 2009, 11:07   #68
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I am not sure if Suzuki being killed in India if they are taken over by VW can be real. The brand has way too much reach in India especially in the small car segment that even if they were to be taken over, it does not make sense to kill the brand value - at least not for decades.

Any Suzuki car sells in India, some are failures comparing other Suzuki siblings, but not when you compare other players' numbers. And a tie-up with a someone like VW who has a name for sturdiness can only add to fix the flaws that Suzuki currently has.

Imagine a well-built Swift - no rattles, problems, and maybe a VGT?!!

Small Capacity motors are not VW's forte, but Suzuki as access to the 1.3 MJD, which can be used for a horde of applications. And I am curious to see what will the Polo Diesel have under the hood - can't be a 2.0 mill for sure?!
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Old 18th December 2009, 05:20   #69
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Old 18th December 2009, 08:12   #70
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This stake will be really beneficial for Maruti Suzuki as they might get some noticable advancement in their all car segments & also most important thing, some amajor face lifts along with new engine technologies (might be from Germany ??).
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