[tsk1979]

@ Steeroid, Tata is not going to resurrect magma, instead a new platform is coming called the X3(or was it Xover,X7) platform. This will be in market end of 2007 and will be the base for new tata SuVs, MuVs and large cars. The indica platform will be replaced with a modified platform which has a longer wheelbase. So Tata will have products in the sub 5 bracket, nee the indigo/indica Common rail and the Xover platform. the safari/sumo/sierra platform is on the way out and the current safari will remain in production for another 4 years till 2008/2009 till the X platform cars come into market. However the engine linup you see will remain constant. They are using 407 block as it can be used uniformally across sumo/telcoline/tatamobile/safari/new platform with different heads and it will keep production costs down.
As for the now stable indica/indigo cars expect major engine changes before the next emission norms come out, maybe even before that. You see, tata indica is the only Normally aspirated IDI Euro-III compliant engine in the world, and tata may not be able to push things further on emission front.

[Steeroid]

Originally Posted by man23ish

By the way, congratulations on being the first TBHPian to get the hands on the New Safari.

Thank you, but that thread has been locked for some reason...am a bit pissed off at not being informed.

[Steeroid]

Originally Posted by ajmat

re: Magna - it was a boring stodgy looking barge when revealed in 2000. It would sink like a stone if released now unless you do the "Toyota Crown" route and focus on the taxi market

I should've clarified beforehand - I meant Magna as a concept (C++/D- segment) and not the exact prototype they had fooled around with a few years ago.

[turbo_lover]

Tata is known for coming up with products which are not up to the quality levels and then gradually improve. At low segments this works fine, but at higher segments they cannot afford it.

reason being - TATA is having to compete with car makers who are much more experienced in the Passenger car business . I think TATA has done a great job building such a successful line up .Best part being the fact that they are constantly improving and upgrading their products.(indigo GSX and the DICOR Safari Vxi)
I dont see a reason why TATA should not go ahead with the launch of high segment passenger cars under a premium brand.

[RX135]

Originally Posted by turbo_lover

reason being - TATA is having to compete with car makers who are much more experienced in the Passenger car business .

For end user, that hardly matters. What matters to him is what he value gets back for his money. If that is not upto the mark, customer wouldn't give a damn about how well are TATA products improving. He might as well wait till they get better and refined product out in the market, or invest his money into time-tested reliable brands like Toyota, Honda or Skoda.

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by Steeroid

Thank you, but that thread has been locked for some reason...am a bit pissed off at not being informed.

I think that thread got merged with this one: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5676

[Steeroid]

Originally Posted by Samurai

I think that thread got merged with this one: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5676

Thanks Samurai - there was apparently some error which has been rectified and the thread is available again with an edited title.

TY mods.

[Mpower]

Absolutely right. TATA needs to be thinking of a C seg car very seriously. Every time Ratan Tata talks about the 1 lakh car, I used to wonder what’s wrong with him. The Indian economy is growing at a torrid pace. Here you have millions of satisfied Indica/Indigo customer who is a few years will be ready for their next car in the next segment. You can’t sell them a Safari. Safari is a niche vehicle and not a mass market vehicle.

TATA is risking losing these customers to the likes of Optra 1.6, Corolla, Civic, New Ikon etc because there is simply no suitable option from the TATA stable. The formula for TATA’s success will be similar to the Indica formula. The keywords are “Diesel” and “space” and “killer pricing”. IMO the following should be the specs of their C seg – car

For length, height and ergonomics……benchmark the Corolla
For body rigidity and suspension……..benchmark the Octavia
For diesel engine……..benchmark the Octavia
For petrol engine……….benchmark the Corolla
For price…………benchmark the Optra 1.6. (while offering a diesel)
For looks…hire an Italian design house…….don’t even think of doing it in India.

There is a great opportunity for this hypothetical car because it DOSENT EXIST.

There are 2 main roadblocks to implementing this vehicle. One is that there are simply no volumes in the segment for TATA to do an all-new platform with 2 engines and a one gearbox. The other guys like Optra, Corolla can survive because they are global players and sell 1000s more of the same cars worldwide.

Second like someone pointed out, TATA needs a major improvement in “attention to detail” weather its fit and finish, NVH, panel fit, shift quality. Like they say “the devil is in the details” and these things cant be learnt overnight or copied. Premium market buyers can be picky.

As far as creating a upscale brand, that’s a great idea……..if TITAN needed TANISHQ to go upmarket with watches you can do same with cars. But the core values should be the same. TATA can also make a deluxe version of Safari with this brand name.

[Revvmaster]

For looks?hire an Italian design house??.don?t even think of doing it in India.

As far as creating a upscale brand, that?s a great idea??..if TITAN needed TANISHQ to go upmarket with watches you can do same with cars. But the core values should be the same. TATA can also make a deluxe version of Safari with this brand name

Have a look at Titan. They have the wonderful Titan Design Centre that creates fantastic designs and offers them at prices way below the market benchmarks. Why not have a "better" Tata Motors Design Centre that replicates the same ideology like Titan. Sure, one might consider the current car designs done by mainstream car cos. and their inhouse departments as a disastrous start, but they are the seedlings to a new beginning.

Tata needs to address more issues than just meeting emission norms. For one, Ratan Tata himself considers Toyota as the benchmark for all tooling and production processes. Well, learn from them then. No one is going to pay his hard earned lakhs on a car that only features more accessories (Indigo GSX, Safari Limited Edition etc.), if the dashboard quality is shoddy, the screws aren't tightly fit, front suspension mountings fail et all. There are two approaches in-front of Tata

Plan A. Continue developing the existing platforms. "Revitalize" them, freshen them up and sell them, even if they have inherent engineering flaws that no amount of 'fiddling around' with the design can solve. This saves costs, but doesn't make up on lost sales. Neither does it uplift the Tata brandname to a reliable and quality manufacturer. And this is where the current Tata setup is. Sure they sell an amazing 1,00,000+ units a year. But that can easily be higher if they opt plan B.

Plan B. Develop a pathbreaking new platform. Engineer the platform in a way that guarantees sales success without having to do the 'tinkering' around. Then invade world markets with this new engineering marvel. And watch your exports shoot through the roof. Fiascos like Rover will become a thing of the past. Net result? Tata getting elevated in the World Auto market as a quality manufacturer. Tough? Not really. Yes the initial investments are high but the payoff is mighty. One look at the IMV platform from Toyota and you'll know what i am talking.

Tata can surely capture the imagination by offering 'More for less'. Now that has to change to 'More quality for less'.

Revv

[manson]

Originally Posted by Revvmaster

Tata can surely capture the imagination by offering 'More for less'. Now that has to change to 'More quality for less'.

Revv

you mean "yet more dreams per car" ?

manson .

[sivadas]

One is that there are simply no volumes in the segment for TATA to do an all-new platform with 2 engines and a one gearbox.

As Mpower mentioned, this is the main reason why Tata was not in a hurry to enter this segment according to me. But they will do it eventually. So what can we expect? S class value at C+ segment price?

[turbo_lover]

So what can we expect? S class value at C+ segment price?

i dont think they will price it too cheap man ..then the whole idea of buying a class car is lost .. they should price it alongside Sonata ...a premium brand must some have some dignity ...

given the resources TATA has they can deck it up to the maxx and still keep their costs low..even if they build an S class they can still manage to price it 10 lacs cheaper..