Is there a big quality lapse at Fiat's Ranjangaon plant that is overlooked by Fiat?

sidindica · 27th December 2009, 13:46

Today's cars are designed to withstand corrosion, no matter even if they are stored for a long time.
But not for Fiat Linea, it seems.
In addition to 2 cases of rust on vocal white Lineas, today I received about 12-13 odd phone calls from my friends/ relatives who own lineas (also in south India), majority in flamanco red and vocal white shades.

Last month in Ghaziabad, even saw a linea whose body-in-white was visible even though it had what it looked like a minor bruise, the paint chipped off badly.

the common complaint-RUST and excessive mechanical clatter, even on petrol powered cars. I assume that same goes for punto since these cars are produced at common assembly line.

Are these cars galvanised properly or not?
Why is Fiat India not looking properly into this critical quality lapse at their paint shop/ final assembly line?
And unlike many modern generation cars, why are their new cars mechanically noisy?

And then they talk about increasing prices by 25,000?

FIAT, WHAT DO YOU SAY ABOUT THIS? DO YOU HAVE ANY ANSWER?

A word of caution to all Linea/ Punto buyers:

Check the car thoroughly for any signs of rust, especially in areas where rubber beadings are installed and trunk lining, under the bonnet, transaxle etc.

These are critical parts which cannot be overlooked. Just by throwing a 50 month warrenty won't do any good unless there is proper quality check at plant itself.

gemithomas · 27th December 2009, 15:02

Is there really a BIG one? I guess we should get some more proof before we proceed with all the speculation this thread would attract.

Just in case the Mods decide that this thread can get special clearance to continue here (unlike most of them that got closed for lack of supporting data) this is what i have to say.

FIAT cars were always known for showing rust well before rolling out of the dealership. I personally have seen some parts covered with rust waiting at the TVS stocks to be put onto vehicles that needed them. Probably no one complained since they were so happy seeing FIAT stocks that they never really noticed the rust. Not really sure what the reason was or if metal parts of other cars too came with some free rust. But owning a UNO and a FIAT Adventure and one of my close relative having a Palio we never thought this rust was causing any problems to the car/owner even in the long run (not sure if i have been able to explain properly)

About the mechanical clatter in petrol Lineas and Puntos, well probably i missed out on them but dont really remember any owner here complaining of excessive clutter on petrols. The Diesels though are more nosier than other brand siblings with same engine. I am not capable to comment on why this happens.

If FIAT cars coming from the Ranjangaon factory has got some BIG Flaws while TATA cars rolling out of the same plant gets away with better fit/finish/paint/etc. quality...well it really is a BIG concern for FIAT if they really need to stay in this market.

I strongly suggest we get some authentic data on this and avoid unnecessary speculations at this point of time.

Sidindica. I have been an ardent follower of all your posts and i'm sure you'll live up to our expectations of coming out with scoop this time.

kalpurja · 27th December 2009, 15:14

Hi, I am proud owner of Punto (petrol). I don't find any fault in my car. Everything seems to be right and inplace.There is no rust in my car. But I must say they have do some stringent quality checks on their car before giving over to dealers or customers. Why I am saying this because in early days I have issues with falling parts in my car.

NetfreakBombay · 27th December 2009, 15:24

Is rust even avoidable in cities that have high humidity? AFAIK, galvanization gives away pretty soon in face of salty and humid environment.

Saw this in am Alto that was bought 6 months ago. Door panels were replaced in warranty.

Is there a big quality lapse at Fiat's Ranjangaon plant that is overlooked by Fiat?-rust_on_car3.jpg

Is there a big quality lapse at Fiat's Ranjangaon plant that is overlooked by Fiat?-rust_on_car4.jpg

greenhorn · 27th December 2009, 15:54

arent some models of the vista/manza made there too? they dont seem to have any issues.
Either fiat's QC is worse than tata's ( Which I find hard to believe

)
Or the issue is not with QC, and probably injected somewhere upstream

jacksons · 27th December 2009, 16:38

I am driving Linea since March and has gone through worst of monsoon and has no sign of any rust anywhere, even driven uno and Palio for 5 years and never any issue.
My FIL' 2001 Palio is as good as it used to be.

MileCruncher · 27th December 2009, 17:22

Being a owner of a 9.5 Yr old Uno and 6 Yr old Palio, I can vouch of the quality of the panels. As a matter of fact, the Palio doors still closes with a thud and haven't started any noises. The uno being slightly older is now showing signs of paint fading in the roof (after having been parked all along in the open without cover) and the paint puffing above a few places on the front left door.

sidindica · 27th December 2009, 18:22

I am not against Fiat, but against the quality inside the paint shop, and I specifically mentioned problems in 2 particular shades with lineas, and some mechanical clatter on the puntos. 2 of our Bhpians too had problems of rusting on brand new vocal white Lineas, one was solved whereas other has to undergo the repair, whereas some bhpians owning flamenco red lineas also reported poor clearcoat quality, which was resolved through heavy polishing by TASS.

Today's new generation cars are treated in such a manner that just storing in a stockyard should not lead to excessive rust on paint. Those 2 white lineas which had rust looked as if they were not treated for anti corrosion. Reminiscent of old cars.

We already pay a heavy price when purchasing the car, as our country's tax system is like that. Yet, getting subpar quality is intolerable. And then talking about substantial price increase ? Doesn't seem justified.

Paying 9 lakhs and then visiting service centers multiple times to solve small small problems is just not called for. And sorry to say, I have seen people bashing other companies, but when it comes to say even anything small about Fiat in terms of negativity here, many people suddenly blame the thread starter for this and many threads are closed.

To me, if a company cannot produce decent quality cars and then charge a heavy price for it, it is totally uncalled for.

MileCruncher · 27th December 2009, 18:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by sidindica

Today's new generation cars are treated in such a manner that just storing in a stockyard should not lead to excessive rust on paint. Those 2 white lineas which had rust looked as if they were not treated for anti corrosion. Reminiscent of old cars.

We already pay a heavy price when purchasing the car, as our country's tax system is like that. Yet, getting subpar quality is intolerable. And then talking about substantial price increase ? Doesn't seem justified.

Paying 9 lakhs and then visiting service centers multiple times to solve small small problems is just not called for. And sorry to say, I have seen people bashing other companies, but when it comes to say even anything small about Fiat in terms of negativity here, many people suddenly blame the thread starter for this and many threads are closed.

To me, if a company cannot produce decent quality cars and then charge a heavy price for it, it is totally uncalled for.

I understand what you meant in your opening post. As a matter of fact having owned FIATs and now having a Mahindra, I can say that both are equally trouble free or problem-matic (depending how you want to see the prism)

The problem with FIAT is that there are too many nay-sayers who haven't ever experienced living with the car but are the first to denounce it without any actual first hand experience. And since this has been the trend, not only here but every where else as well, FIAT lovers (remember the P-U-G tagline "Only Lovers, not Drivers") jump up to pre-empt any attack.

My 2 paisa

Cheers

lejhoom · 27th December 2009, 19:11

Here we see a pattern. Look any thread related to Fiat and you are bound to see a lot of dust kicked up. I strongly believe that team-bhp stands for unbiased, informative and authentic discussion. I am very curious to know what prompts this sparring when it comes to Fiat? Are the Fiat fans over-reactive as they perceive themselves to be perpetually wronged or do they have a genuine reason in taking up the cudgel? Sometimes I see a lot of grouse vented in other sites with regard to the treatment meted out to them in team-bhp. I guess the mods need to make a statement here to clear the clouds. Or, am I becoming a bit too touchy?

With regard to sidindica I must admit that I am huge fan of his. However, isn't this thread cobbled up in a haste? One can show umpteen instances of such issues with almost all automobile manufacturers. What one has to look up to is the speed with which such concerns are addressed by the manufacturers.

I think it is quite natural for a car owner to post an issue in the team-bhp before he or she actually makes an attempt to contact the car service centre. I guess this happens because one gets easier access to the net than the service centre. The result is that if we run a search in team-bhp we are likely to see several threads where quite a lot of concerns are expressed, sometimes venting the spleen, before the issue is presented before the service centre and got it resolved.

ImmortalZ · 27th December 2009, 19:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by lejhoom

With regard to sidindica I must admit that I am huge fan of his. However, isn't this thread cobbled up in a haste? One can show umpteen instances of such issues with almost all automobile manufacturers. What one has to look up to is the speed with which such concerns are addressed by the manufacturers.

I'm interested in seeing the umpteen instances that you claim to exist.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lejhoom

I think it is quite natural for a car owner to post an issue in the team-bhp before he or she actually makes an attempt to contact the car service centre. I guess this happens because one gets easier access to the net than the service centre. The result is that if we run a search in team-bhp we are likely to see several threads where quite a lot of concerns are expressed, sometimes venting the spleen, before the issue is presented before the service centre and got it resolved.

Why is it wrong to say "X went wrong with my car. What should I do?" Good service centers are a rarity. Good service centers with staff who know their stuff are rarer still. A second opinion from a third party will probably save you money, time and headaches when dealing with issues.

Today's cars are supposed to function with just regular maintenance. You are not supposed to have issues full stop. That is what technology does and has done for decades.

It doesn't matter what brand - new age cars do not and should not rust unless you damage the paint, cut into the primer and then leave it to rust. If you see rust underneath the paint (like the one pic of someone's Linea's boot), it is a mistake at the plant where they missed that area when doing anti-corrosion treatment.

lejhoom · 27th December 2009, 19:58

ImmortalZ: I'm interested in seeing the umpteen instances that you claim to exist.

Well, sir, what I meant was instances of "niggling issues", not limited to paint. To give you a fair idea, please go to long term ownership reviews and search for niggling issues. You will see "umpteen instances".

Why is it wrong to say "X went wrong with my car. What should I do?" Good service centers are a rarity. A second opinion from a third party will probably save you money, time and headaches when dealing with issues.

You are right. But the point here is not about raising concerns. It is about judging a vehicle by the number of posts where issues are raised without considering how the issues got resolved.

Today's cars are supposed to function with just regular maintenance. You are not supposed to have issues full stop. That is what technology does and has done for decades.

Spot on. Then why are the issues, for example I mentioned above, exist with manfufacturers of all shades?

CrAzY dRiVeR · 27th December 2009, 20:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by lejhoom

With regard to sidindica I must admit that I am huge fan of his. However, isn't this thread cobbled up in a haste?

Just putting a few appropriate thread links here, so that the scenario becomes clear!

1. Replaced both rear doors in 6 months because of rusting.
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...ml#post1652178

2. Rust in 1 month old Linea.
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...a-1-4-e-2.html

3. Rusty patch in 1 month old Linea.
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...iat-linea.html

NutsNBolts · 27th December 2009, 20:39

Thread is very much in order, however, would be great if we knew the rusting instances vis-a-vis total sales per month. Such data alone can say whether the question raised on QC is valid or not. Like lejhoom said, problems and niggles can occur with every manufacturer and what needs to be seen is how much initiative was taken by the manufacturer to honor the warranty or to solve the problem. In case of two links mentioned by CrazyDriver, Fiat has replaced doors in one of them and is in the process of doing the same for another.

As far as Fiat owners being touchy, I think this is the case with all owners. Everyone who has invested money in a car, will want to love it, niggles and problems present or not. Every owner will consider his/her product to be superior than the peer's (ads like neighbor's envy, owner's pride; why is his shirt whiter than mine, ring a bell?.)

downsouth · 27th December 2009, 20:45

Well, I really dont tend to reply to such threads, but since it was started by Sid thought there would be something worth his interest.

My Linea is almost 10 Months old and it has run a bit over 8K and no problems with rust or any niggling issues, I had a few during delivery which were duly rectified by the dealership. There could be some rotten apples in the basket, and that is not a reason to ignore quality. FIAL I hope you are noticing this thread.

On second thoughts have the owners of the cars who had problems with rusting attended to problems when they occured.

27th December 2009, 13:46	#1
sidindica Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Delhi Posts: 4,892 Thanked: 8,119 Times	Is there a big quality lapse at Fiat's Ranjangaon plant that is overlooked by Fiat? Today's cars are designed to withstand corrosion, no matter even if they are stored for a long time. But not for Fiat Linea, it seems. In addition to 2 cases of rust on vocal white Lineas, today I received about 12-13 odd phone calls from my friends/ relatives who own lineas (also in south India), majority in flamanco red and vocal white shades. Last month in Ghaziabad, even saw a linea whose body-in-white was visible even though it had what it looked like a minor bruise, the paint chipped off badly. the common complaint-RUST and excessive mechanical clatter, even on petrol powered cars. I assume that same goes for punto since these cars are produced at common assembly line. Are these cars galvanised properly or not? Why is Fiat India not looking properly into this critical quality lapse at their paint shop/ final assembly line? And unlike many modern generation cars, why are their new cars mechanically noisy? And then they talk about increasing prices by 25,000? FIAT, WHAT DO YOU SAY ABOUT THIS? DO YOU HAVE ANY ANSWER? A word of caution to all Linea/ Punto buyers: Check the car thoroughly for any signs of rust, especially in areas where rubber beadings are installed and trunk lining, under the bonnet, transaxle etc. These are critical parts which cannot be overlooked. Just by throwing a 50 month warrenty won't do any good unless there is proper quality check at plant itself.
	() Thanks

27th December 2009, 15:02	#2
gemithomas Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Trivandrum Posts: 2,366 Thanked: 143 Times View My Garage	Is there really a BIG one? I guess we should get some more proof before we proceed with all the speculation this thread would attract. Just in case the Mods decide that this thread can get special clearance to continue here (unlike most of them that got closed for lack of supporting data) this is what i have to say. FIAT cars were always known for showing rust well before rolling out of the dealership. I personally have seen some parts covered with rust waiting at the TVS stocks to be put onto vehicles that needed them. Probably no one complained since they were so happy seeing FIAT stocks that they never really noticed the rust. Not really sure what the reason was or if metal parts of other cars too came with some free rust. But owning a UNO and a FIAT Adventure and one of my close relative having a Palio we never thought this rust was causing any problems to the car/owner even in the long run (not sure if i have been able to explain properly) About the mechanical clatter in petrol Lineas and Puntos, well probably i missed out on them but dont really remember any owner here complaining of excessive clutter on petrols. The Diesels though are more nosier than other brand siblings with same engine. I am not capable to comment on why this happens. If FIAT cars coming from the Ranjangaon factory has got some BIG Flaws while TATA cars rolling out of the same plant gets away with better fit/finish/paint/etc. quality...well it really is a BIG concern for FIAT if they really need to stay in this market. I strongly suggest we get some authentic data on this and avoid unnecessary speculations at this point of time. Sidindica. I have been an ardent follower of all your posts and i'm sure you'll live up to our expectations of coming out with scoop this time.
	() Thanks

27th December 2009, 15:14	#3
kalpurja BHPian Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: New Delhi Posts: 77 Thanked: 18 Times	Hi, I am proud owner of Punto (petrol). I don't find any fault in my car. Everything seems to be right and inplace.There is no rust in my car. But I must say they have do some stringent quality checks on their car before giving over to dealers or customers. Why I am saying this because in early days I have issues with falling parts in my car.
	() Thanks

27th December 2009, 15:24	#4
NetfreakBombay Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Bombay Posts: 1,466 Thanked: 1,021 Times	Is rust even avoidable in cities that have high humidity? AFAIK, galvanization gives away pretty soon in face of salty and humid environment. Saw this in am Alto that was bought 6 months ago. Door panels were replaced in warranty.
	() Thanks

27th December 2009, 15:54	#5
greenhorn Senior - BHPian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: KL-01 Posts: 7,745 Thanked: 4,402 Times View My Garage	arent some models of the vista/manza made there too? they dont seem to have any issues. Either fiat's QC is worse than tata's ( Which I find hard to believe ) Or the issue is not with QC, and probably injected somewhere upstream
	() Thanks

27th December 2009, 16:38	#6
jacksons BANNED Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: New Delhi Posts: 362 Thanked: 67 Times	I am driving Linea since March and has gone through worst of monsoon and has no sign of any rust anywhere, even driven uno and Palio for 5 years and never any issue. My FIL' 2001 Palio is as good as it used to be.
	() Thanks

27th December 2009, 17:22	#7
MileCruncher Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: MH01 Posts: 4,235 Thanked: 592 Times View My Garage	Being a owner of a 9.5 Yr old Uno and 6 Yr old Palio, I can vouch of the quality of the panels. As a matter of fact, the Palio doors still closes with a thud and haven't started any noises. The uno being slightly older is now showing signs of paint fading in the roof (after having been parked all along in the open without cover) and the paint puffing above a few places on the front left door.
	() Thanks

27th December 2009, 18:22	#8
sidindica Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Delhi Posts: 4,892 Thanked: 8,119 Times	I am not against Fiat, but against the quality inside the paint shop, and I specifically mentioned problems in 2 particular shades with lineas, and some mechanical clatter on the puntos. 2 of our Bhpians too had problems of rusting on brand new vocal white Lineas, one was solved whereas other has to undergo the repair, whereas some bhpians owning flamenco red lineas also reported poor clearcoat quality, which was resolved through heavy polishing by TASS. Today's new generation cars are treated in such a manner that just storing in a stockyard should not lead to excessive rust on paint. Those 2 white lineas which had rust looked as if they were not treated for anti corrosion. Reminiscent of old cars. We already pay a heavy price when purchasing the car, as our country's tax system is like that. Yet, getting subpar quality is intolerable. And then talking about substantial price increase ? Doesn't seem justified. Paying 9 lakhs and then visiting service centers multiple times to solve small small problems is just not called for. And sorry to say, I have seen people bashing other companies, but when it comes to say even anything small about Fiat in terms of negativity here, many people suddenly blame the thread starter for this and many threads are closed. To me, if a company cannot produce decent quality cars and then charge a heavy price for it, it is totally uncalled for. Last edited by sidindica : 27th December 2009 at 18:26.
	() Thanks

27th December 2009, 19:11	#10
lejhoom BHPian Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Hyderabad Posts: 366 Thanked: 187 Times	Here we see a pattern. Look any thread related to Fiat and you are bound to see a lot of dust kicked up. I strongly believe that team-bhp stands for unbiased, informative and authentic discussion. I am very curious to know what prompts this sparring when it comes to Fiat? Are the Fiat fans over-reactive as they perceive themselves to be perpetually wronged or do they have a genuine reason in taking up the cudgel? Sometimes I see a lot of grouse vented in other sites with regard to the treatment meted out to them in team-bhp. I guess the mods need to make a statement here to clear the clouds. Or, am I becoming a bit too touchy? With regard to sidindica I must admit that I am huge fan of his. However, isn't this thread cobbled up in a haste? One can show umpteen instances of such issues with almost all automobile manufacturers. What one has to look up to is the speed with which such concerns are addressed by the manufacturers. I think it is quite natural for a car owner to post an issue in the team-bhp before he or she actually makes an attempt to contact the car service centre. I guess this happens because one gets easier access to the net than the service centre. The result is that if we run a search in team-bhp we are likely to see several threads where quite a lot of concerns are expressed, sometimes venting the spleen, before the issue is presented before the service centre and got it resolved.
	() Thanks

27th December 2009, 19:58	#12
lejhoom BHPian Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Hyderabad Posts: 366 Thanked: 187 Times	ImmortalZ: I'm interested in seeing the umpteen instances that you claim to exist. Well, sir, what I meant was instances of "niggling issues", not limited to paint. To give you a fair idea, please go to long term ownership reviews and search for niggling issues. You will see "umpteen instances". Why is it wrong to say "X went wrong with my car. What should I do?" Good service centers are a rarity. A second opinion from a third party will probably save you money, time and headaches when dealing with issues. You are right. But the point here is not about raising concerns. It is about judging a vehicle by the number of posts where issues are raised without considering how the issues got resolved. Today's cars are supposed to function with just regular maintenance. You are not supposed to have issues full stop. That is what technology does and has done for decades. Spot on. Then why are the issues, for example I mentioned above, exist with manfufacturers of all shades?
	() Thanks

27th December 2009, 20:39	#14
NutsNBolts BHPian Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Jammu Posts: 817 Thanked: 41 Times View My Garage	Thread is very much in order, however, would be great if we knew the rusting instances vis-a-vis total sales per month. Such data alone can say whether the question raised on QC is valid or not. Like lejhoom said, problems and niggles can occur with every manufacturer and what needs to be seen is how much initiative was taken by the manufacturer to honor the warranty or to solve the problem. In case of two links mentioned by CrazyDriver, Fiat has replaced doors in one of them and is in the process of doing the same for another. As far as Fiat owners being touchy, I think this is the case with all owners. Everyone who has invested money in a car, will want to love it, niggles and problems present or not. Every owner will consider his/her product to be superior than the peer's (ads like neighbor's envy, owner's pride; why is his shirt whiter than mine, ring a bell?.)
	() Thanks

27th December 2009, 20:45	#15
downsouth BHPian Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: 0.1933333, 32.58333 Posts: 357 Thanked: 23 Times	I am a Linea Owner Well, I really dont tend to reply to such threads, but since it was started by Sid thought there would be something worth his interest. My Linea is almost 10 Months old and it has run a bit over 8K and no problems with rust or any niggling issues, I had a few during delivery which were duly rectified by the dealership. There could be some rotten apples in the basket, and that is not a reason to ignore quality. FIAL I hope you are noticing this thread. On second thoughts have the owners of the cars who had problems with rusting attended to problems when they occured.
	() Thanks