Team-BHP - Spied 2010 Tata Safari / Indicruz EDIT : Caught testing in India! Pics on Pg. 20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steeroid (Post 1203535)

But yeah the whole range is a hotch-potch of various legacies, starting with the Buick V8 engine from the 60s (which is where the Jaguar V8s came from - that includes the 4.2 in my STR and the 3.9 in my truck - the 4.0, 4.6 and 4.8s also come from the same family, the only changes being the stroke and the ignition), some LR platforms which were later used by Ford. There is very little BMW in the range, though - the only BMW contribution was the EFI systems for the Jaguar/Land Rover V8s.

I beg to defer - the buick V8 engine only went in the Rovers and your Landy. Pre-1994, Jags were only I6 (2.8, 3.4 and 4,2) or V12, the Jag engineers were so cautious not to allow British Leyland to dilute the Jaguar name that they engineered the XJ40 to accept only I6 engines - only the AJ6 series fitted 2.9 and 4.0l. The V8 would not fit in the engine bay hence the original xj12 was sold alongside.

Post 1994, Jaguar was spun off and the XJ was reengineered and the XJ8 came back along with the Jaguars first v8 engines. The Rover and Jag eninges are totally different. However, post Ford takeover, the Range Rovers have had jag engines inside. The buick engine has never been put in a Jag

Quote:

Originally Posted by PAVAN KADAM (Post 1203622)

:uncontrol, to compete with the Xylo they already have the Sumo Grande .

The new Indicruz will be as per me a very special segmented automobile.

One can only know about competition once its launched finally:)

sumo grande.... competition to xylo???

looking at the sales figures, is it even competition to the tavera... or the sonalika rhino?

if tata prices the indicruz well, that is, in the range of the xylo, it can give a real tough fight to the xylo, atleast in the looks department. if priced on the higher side, the innova will beat it anyday.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajmat (Post 1203601)

I beg to defer - the buick V8 engine only went in the Rovers and your Landy.

Sorry ajmat - the Buick V8s are the ones on which the current Jag AJ V8s are based. The Buick V8 was the first aluminium block V8 made by GM, who discarded the engine as technology allowed them to make thinner walled small-block cast iron V8s.

While the Jag AJ V8 is considered by some as an 'all new' design developed from scratch by Jaguar (see THE JAGUAR AJ-V8 ENGINE / AJ6 Engineering) , you cannot help noticing that the crankshafts are actually interchangeable. The popular agreement is that Jag used the same block, but made changes on the top to accomodate more valves and variable valve timing.

The Rover V8 went on from its original 3.5 litre through 3.9 (carb) and 3.9 (EFI from BMW), 4.2 and 4.6 all on the same basic half-block.

Aftermarket tuning parts for both Jag and LR engines are actually interchangeble - how would this be possible if they were fundamentally different engines? These are also interchangeable with those for TVR and MG, all of which used the same basic engine.

The all-new Jag V8 will be the one seen on the XFR (and the XKR), and is supposed to be a killer at over 500 bhp.

The new JLR 5.0 V8 is a stonker, Reviews have aldready put this engine ahead of the German rivals. The engine replaces the entire V8 range using the older engine. The 503bhp engine in the XFR and the XKR is the supercharged version while rest of the V8 range for the regular XFs and XKs get the 380bhp naturally aspirated one.
:OT
Even more exciting is the new diesels from JLR. The new Twin Turbo V6 3.0 diesel will repalce the existing 2.7 Peugeot designed ones. The S version of the engine develops 277bhp and an amazing 600 Nm of Torque.

Maybe if JLR doesnt need the 2.7 V6 Diesel, Tata could plonk it in the Indicruz and future Safari. Pray everyone.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PAVAN KADAM (Post 1203622)

well its price is more than the XYLO for sure. the accessories will also be more. the crossover is more of a MUV with premium feel like innova.
its better looking than rest of the lots. will start production in June/July.

and people here dont call it an upgrade of Tata Safari. its no where linked with SAFARI. as of now there is no new model of safari coming soon.
this is totally a new product concept from TATAs

I was in Coimbatore last week before returning to New york. I saw a disguised (or clothed in black ;)) xover. The car was moving well in traffic, since it was coming in opposite direction and i was driving, I could not take any pics. But it seems close to being a finished product.

Now that XYLO is out, TATA clearly know what they are up against. The reason I am not mentioning Innova is that, till now TATA has been giving out products that are 60-70% of the market/segment leading cars from mostly MNCs and Maruti with significant reduction in price. But that strategy cannot work anymore because Mahindra have established that they can now produce cars(SUV/MUV) with good quality. So TATA has no option but to compete with Mahindra.

Sumo Grande's failure might be a good thing for TATA in the long run so that they could improve their reliability, build quality and interiors of future products. Seems like TATA don't know to survive vicariously..

Quote:

Originally Posted by vinaydas (Post 1279140)

i also have a feeling that this is going to be direct competition to the innova/xylo and not the new safari.
like what mahindra did with the scorpio,Im expecting there will be a facellift for the current safari.

Another face lift for the Safari??

Reminds me about the joke about the woman who had so many face lifts that she now has a beard..

I think after 10 years it's time for an all new Safari. Tata, no more new versions with different grille's and spare wheel covers please..

Quote:

Originally Posted by shortbread (Post 1248246)

i believe the engines are manufactured by FORD

and i have also read that TATA has signed certain agreements with FORD (which tio me sounds more like typical american hypocrisy)

I dont believe they can play around with those engines easily, definately not in the near short term

There is a lot of speculation regarding the relationship between JLR and Tata. Many believe that it is like the one with Ford/BMW where they shared technology, platform, parts etc. However, this is not the caes with Tata. Ratan Tata and Ravi Kant sit on the board with David Smith to make the top level decisions. But JLR is by all means an independent company, more so now than it was with Ford. It seems that there is an information barrier of sorts between JLR and Tata which I am sure must have been a part of the negotiations considering how much access JLR had to Ford systems and technologies. In fact we are still using many shared systems with Ford and there is some kind of arrangement with Ford to slowly phase these out.

Platform/parts sharing with Ford is also being phased out slowly but surely and in the near future, all products will have exclusive JLR platforms and powertrains.

So any suggestions of Tata 'benifitting' from Jag or LR expertise in developing cars can be put to rest as there is no such thing happening. In fact JLR PD is based in Gaydon/Whitley while Tata has its own R&D division as part of the Warwick University which is really close by. Over the years, even when JLR was owned by Ford, JLR used to poach employees from Ford and Tata used to poach from JLR and this continues to date. There is no association between JLR and the TATA R&D even here in UK, except perhaps if they choose to subcontract work to Tata.

Even sharing parts is not feasible. JLR uses premium parts while Tata uses cheaper parts. A few of my colleagues have travelled to India to source potential parts suppliers for the simpler components, but so far the response hasn't been enthusiastic enough to give the go ahead. They aren't very happy shipping components half way across the world and in the process increasing their carboon footprint as well causing a potential logistics nightmare.

On the spyshot cars, the details from their registration plates according to DVLA are

GN08 WXX
Date of First Registration 22 07 2008
Year of Manufacture 2008
Cylinder Capacity (cc) 2179CC
CO2 Emissions 0g/Km
Fuel Type Heavy Oil
Export Marker Not Applicable
Vehicle Status Licence Not Due
Vehicle Colour WHITE
Vehicle Type Approval null

GN57 PBY :
Date of First Registration 23 11 2007
Year of Manufacture 2007
Cylinder Capacity (cc) 2179CC
CO2 Emissions 0g/Km
Fuel Type Heavy Oil
Export Marker Not Applicable
Vehicle Status SORN Not Due
Vehicle Colour WHITE
Vehicle Type Approval null

Don't know if this has been posted before, but thought it might be of interest.