[mxx]

Originally Posted by poloman

Nandan, Bangalore is a 'City' City. I used to wonder whether a significant % of sales of Honda is from Bangalore.Move over to Kerala or TN or interior KA. You won't see many.

+1 to that
Bangalore has quite a lot of City(s).

BTW nandans2005, did you try counting Jazz???
You might just count 40 in 20 days, and then you realize it is the same guy going to office and back.

On a serious note
City has a not so bad sales because it has something to offer w.r.t the competition.
Like the city Jazz too is priced higher but has nothing significant to offer when considering the competition.

[HammerHead]

Originally Posted by kadanaJ

I guess giving the Honda name a better brand image is more important for them than volume sales.

Lets wait till VW launches Polo sedan, which will IMO take on Honda's bread and butter, the city. Their rest lineup is already under threat. See how uninspiring (design wise only) Corolla is already killing Civic, even before launching diesel variant. Superb taking on Accord, Fortuner knocking off everyone including CRV. Jazz bombed on day 1. And then this new small car 'not priced for masses'!! Where does Honda heading?

Brand image? They are not bigger then VW/Skoda are they, yes even in India??

[nandans2005]

[quote
BTW nandans2005, did you try counting Jazz???
You might just count 40 in 20 days, and then you realize it is the same guy going to office and back.

[/quote]

You must be joking about the Jazz nos in Bangalore. I have counted only 3 in past one month during my travel in the city!

[phantom76]

Originally Posted by nandans2005

You must be joking about the Jazz nos in Bangalore. I have counted only 3 in past one month during my travel in the city!

But interestingly, there are two new Jazzies in my office parking lot since last week. I am really eager to see who the owners are and ask them politely what made them buy the Jazz.

[SunilM]

Originally Posted by crazyro

I Completely agree Narayan. Lately this forum has become a platform for HONDA bashing. What is more disappointing is to see comments like "I wish HONDA sales decline further" etc etc. Every company has its own strategy. They dont force you to buy their vehicles. I wish people do more constructive criticism than outright bashing. Cannot ignore the fact that they make fantastic cars.

+1 to that.

Honda definitely makes fantastic cars. No doubt about that. Price is a different story, though. Many of the bashers would queue up to buy a honda if it was priced in their range, myself included. When in US, I had a Corolla, I would have gone for a Civic if it was not priced at a premium. Many of my friends had the same opinion.

Originally Posted by ukamath

"Everybody is looking at the volume market, while historically our cars have always been positioned slightly higher than the volume segment," Ike said,

I fully agree with this statement. Honda cars are priced at a premium across the world, even in volume segment. For eg. Top end Corolla msrp is about $20,150, Civic top end is about $24,455, where I lived. This clearly shows that their products are at a slight premium in almost every market. There is no point in abusing Honda for this strategy. Its a free market, buy it if you like it, look elsewhere if you don't like or cannot justify / afford the price. Simple.

[ukamath]

Originally Posted by SunilM

I fully agree with this statement - Honda cars are priced at a premium across the world, even in volume segment. For eg. Top end Corolla msrp is about $20,150, Civic top end is about $24,455, where I lived. This clearly shows that their products are at a slight premium in almost every market. There is no point in abusing Honda for this strategy. Its a free market, buy it if you like it, look elsewhere if you don't like or cannot justify / afford the price. Simple.

The Free market theory is good. At the end of the day, this strategy is not going to generate big sales figures and revenues for Honda - especially from the red hot Indian and Chinese markets. This is where are the sales charts are ablaze with numbers going straight north, unlike the world over where the markets are either completely flat or just about emerging from a scary 2009.

I understand that Honda has a premium approach across the world - but India traditionally has been a super price sensitive market. One of the primary reason that people prefer the i20 over the Jazz in the super premium hatchback segment - This segment has the money to spend on premium products. yet the differential 1 lakh+ was enough for them to settle with a Hyundai than a Honda.

And for Honda, this is a golden opportunity to become a household Indian name (just like the Honda Activa - it is so good and so much in demand that it still carries a 1+ month waiting period inspite of nice alternatives from Suzuki, TVS, Hero Honda and Mahindra). Now, if they can use the Activa formula - nice product at a affordable price point (slight premium is ok - but not priced out of the market) for millions of middle class Indians, I am sure people will line up - All of us would love to enjoy Honda's legendary technology, engines and reliability. If the new small car can benchmark the Polo on the price point and equipment (a little bit more than VW) they will sell on their own and in huge numbers. After all, we are all ready to pay a premium for the good things in life, as long as it doesn't leave a deep dent on the pocket.

[mxx]

Originally Posted by narayan

another thread to start some bashing . i think we have this set of car makers who we love bashing. lets try to keep the thread clean and at the discussion.
when we all can see what can be done in the volume car market, it will be an extremely juvenile thought process to assume Honda does not understand that.
so let them come out with details of their small car and we can then discuss the merits/demerits at that time. i dont see any substantial info posted here that is not known already.
out of here before i get branded !

Originally Posted by crazyro

I Completely agree Narayan. Lately this forum has become a platform for HONDA bashing. What is more disappointing is to see comments like "I wish HONDA sales decline further" etc etc. Every company has its own strategy. They dont force you to buy their vehicles. I wish people do more constructive criticism than outright bashing. Cannot ignore the fact that they make fantastic cars.

First of all, I dont know why people who voice their opinion is called "bashers". Anyway, not here for debate on that, but to clarify the point of view of "bashers".
As carpro already pointed out many of the "bashers" would buy a honda if there is some sanity in the product offering.
Eg:in my case, I am planning to buy a premium hatch in sometime, and I would buy a Jazz at this price IF it had a 1.5L engine. Since it does not, I look at what it has w.r.t the competition in the same segment. The answer is "nothing".Having done a test drive, I can say that it is good to drive, but nothing there to justify the premium pricing. For me buying an i10 CRDi, and chipping it makes more sense. With all the power, I get all the other features too.
Now that was me as a enthusiast, which is a minority. Now from the point of view of a non-enthusiast, what has Jazz got to offer more than the competitors to justify premium pricing. The answer is again "nothing". They would rather go for a polo or i20kappa.
There is a joke in this forum that the best thing that happened to i20 is Jazz.

[prince_pervez]

Honda is making evident time and again that its the quality and brand value it is making. It is not running behind volumes and sales, which is reverse of basic economics. They are happy with some limited sales targets. They have other markets also. Its not just India like in the case of MUL or a TATA.

[avishar]

Originally Posted by prince_pervez

Honda is making evident time and again that its the quality and brand value it is making. It is not running behind volumes and sales, which is reverse of basic economics. They are happy with some limited sales targets. They have other markets also. Its not just India like in the case of MUL or a TATA.

The developed markets of US,europe,japan have stagnated in terms of car sales.China is already the largest car market in the world and India is supposed to be the second largest in 10 yrs time.So every car company worth its salt is trying its utmost to crack the indian market.If BMW can bend over backwards to give the consumer value(320d ce),so can Honda.But then again its their business choice.

[prince_pervez]

Originally Posted by avishar

The developed markets of US,europe,japan have stagnated in terms of car sales.

Correct, they have other markets other than India, hence then can expect some revenue trickle. Its not just India.

If BMW can bend over backwards to give the consumer value(320d ce),so can Honda.But then again its their business choice.

If more international players can bend that way there is a good chance of Honda caving as well. Till then its sunshine to make hay.

[pgsagar]

Originally Posted by prince_pervez

Honda have other markets also. Its not just India like in the case of MUL or a TATA.

What other markets? Looks like they are reduced to being niche player evrywhere in the world. Toyota is world's number one, in terms of sale. Then, VW and Hyundai. But Honda? I wonder if it even figures among top ten car makers of the world.

[spindoc]

Originally Posted by pgsagar

What other markets? Looks like they are reduced to being niche player evrywhere in the world. Toyota is world's number one, in terms of sale. Then, VW and Hyundai. But Honda? I wonder if it even figures among top ten car makers of the world.

@pgsagar, Honda is in fact doing very well for itself.

See here - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World%27s_largest_automakers
and here - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda
From the wikipedia article:
"Honda is the world's largest manufacturer of motorcycles as well as the world's largest manufacturer of internal combustion engines measured by volume, producing more than 14 million internal combustion engines each year.[3] Honda surpassed Nissan in 2001 to become the second-largest Japanese automobile manufacturer.[4][5] As of August 2008[update], Honda surpassed Chrysler as the fourth largest automobile manufacturer in the United States. Honda is the sixth largest automobile manufacturer in the world."

[Baron]

Honda is the sixth largest automobile manufacturer in the world."

This can change for worse for Honda if they keep on ignoring the Indian market. With VW, Toyota, Nissan etc. having aggressive plans for India, Honda also has to come up to match them.

Honda sales decreasing with other manufacturers reporting inc. in their sales. Things are not pretty for Honda.

[StarScream]

This from Honda today - reiteration of earlier information but the latest nonethless:

The automaker, Japan’s second-largest, also plans to sell a 500,000-rupee ($10,600) car in India next year, Chief Executive Officer Takanobu Ito told reporters today in Saitama prefecture, north of Tokyo.

Honda Plans to Sell Electric Car, Plug-In Hybrid - BusinessWeek